Hi, Chris-WA,
I’ll answer, but I doubt if it will change your perspective even the slightest. Maybe someone else will get something from my response. Who knows?
Ignatius uses the term “her (this word means the members of the church) that hath the presidency in the country of the region of the Romans.”
To me that means Ignatius is saying the members of the church have a duty within the “country of the region of the Romans” to be the leaders collectively by the example they set to others, through their belief in Christ and through “the presidency of love, walking in the law of Christ and bearing the Father’s name.”
No matter how you slice it or which translation of Ignatius you use, Ignatius associates the
presidency with the church at Rome and no other. Ignatius wrote letters to the churches at Ephesus, Magnesia, Tralls, Philidelphia, Smyrna, and Rome. He uses the same basic format for each. In each letter he praises the church for their faithfulness to the gospel and exhorts them to remain unified under their local bishop.
But only with the church at Rome does he give the title "presidency." If your interpretation is correct, then he could have said the same thing to the other churches as well. But among his letters he singles out Rome as having the presidency.
Your treatment of “presidency of love” does not fit the context of the letter. First Ignatius states that the church of Rome has the presidency, then he describes this presidency as a “presidency of love,” meaning that Rome exercises its primacy more like a servant to the others than like a ruler who lords his power over his subjects. This is consistent with the way Christ acts as King. He is still in charge, but He acts so more as a servant than a dictator.
There is not a single word or phrase that can be deemed to mean that “Rome has the seat of Peter and his successors” within any writing of Ignatius that I came across. Do you have another example of that being the case, explicitly?
No, you can’t limit yourself to just one ECF, or read them in isolation from one another, if you want to get the best understanding of the historical church. Other church fathers made the Peter connection quite explicit. They no doubt were more familiar with Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, and all the rest than any of us here.
You know of course that the word “Catholic” was a derivation from another word that Ignatius had used. The phrase does not prove anything as to the “Catholic church”. It is like saying “there is the whole church” which really is just re-stating what Christ and the apostles taught, that the members of the church become one body who should unitedly follow Christ as their living Head.
Well, there is much more implied by the term “catholic” than what you allude to, such as the fact that “catholic” means “universal,” indicating that the church is for all people of every race, nation, tongue, etc. This was a dramatic departure from the Jewish belief that salvation was only for them. I was simply stating this to show that the Catholic Church received its common name long before many realize, going back to the first century. Some people think it was invented in the middle ages.
Despite your opinion to the contrary, a believer in Christ becomes one who is filled with love for others, and one who is filled with love for others wants to live, not be a martyr to go where Christ is. They want to serve Christ by serving others, and do that best by staying alive, looking around, and being an unselfish follower of Christ by example. They want to live for Christ.
I don’t think you have the insight into Ignatius’ situation to judge what he should have done or not done, or said or not said. He was a faithful servant and incredible witness for Christ. There is no way you can reasonably argue otherwise, and I think most people would agree, even most Mormons once they become familiar with his story.
If you deny figurative language, you are truly impaired in understanding the Divine.
Always has always will.
St. Peter should have given “the keys” to St. John who should have given them to ________ ???