LDS Question - How did the first church fail?

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Xavierlives said:
Ooo… not to be too protestant here, but I ask myself that of the Catholic Church sometimes.
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You must realize that the CC is led by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that? Or do you deny that Jesus Christ is indeed Present in the CC by the power of the HS through the Eucharist?
 
ricko said:
I wish yall would stop doing that, it gives me a headache trying to read that stuff. Who started that type of writing anyhow? Tnx BCNU
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You can’t read it, u need to translate it. :cool:
Javl said:
Hey cutie: How’s about using pig latin so’s we can all read whatcha sayin’ without having to cross our eyes? Yikes and Sheesh!

:choocho:

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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Here you go sugar pie;

jayssite.com/stuff/l33t/l33t_translator.html
Xavierlives said:
Well, that really won’t be long.

No. But they are 1057, so I feel for them. I can only pray for them.

Until next time.
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i H34RD tH3y r 4lL pHR0M UTUh, i2 TH@ wh3r3 th3Y 4LL 5T4Rt3D? P3r50n4LY I k4n’t 5t4nD Th3M, T3h lUn4tic2!
 
I happen to be listening to Dr Laura which I rarely do when women called it. During the conversation she said she used to be Catholic but now since she married her husband she is Christian. Dr Laura who I believe was baptized Catholic but became Jewish later in life said I have to correct you before we continue… She told the young women Catholics are Christians, what you are is a protestant.

The women replied ok as if she didn’t here…then she asked her question.

It never was the so called Christian Church. It has always been Jesus’ church with Christians in it. This would be the Catholic Church. Other Christian sects who believe in the Apostles Creed our counted as part of the One Body of Christ. What they have received regarding Jesus has been handed down to them due to the Holy Mass, they have a bit of the overflow I would say. It is the Holy Mass that has brought Christ into the present for all Christians. Without the 2000 year old mass we would not be here today speaking about Jesus. It takes place every two minutes 24 hours a day 7 days a week, 364 days each year. It is our daily bread, it is a Miracle each time it is presented.

Accept on Good Friday.

You can get some really good glimpese of the Mass here…just follow the promptings…first go to the DVD link, take it from there
catholicmass.org/english.html

In Christ
Rich
www.utahmission.com
www.chooseyourcross.com
 
rinnie said:
You must realize that the CC is led by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that? Or do you deny that Jesus Christ is indeed Present in the CC by the power of the HS through the Eucharist?
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I would never deny that. At least up to the part about the Eucharist. I believe that God has always worked with man, since his creation. So I don’t see the church that arose 100 years after Christ as having any particular distinction with regard to the HS. The Lord will always work to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of Man (to quote the Mormon scripture.) And always has. It’s what He does!
 
rmcmullan said:
I would never deny that. At least up to the part about the Eucharist. I believe that God has always worked with man, since his creation. So I don’t see the church that arose 100 years after Christ as having any particular distinction with regard to the HS. The Lord will always work to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of Man (to quote the Mormon scripture.) And always has. It’s what He does!
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***I would never deny that. At least up to the part about the Eucharist. ***

That makes a lot of sense, you are not special in not understanding or in accepting it as the greatest gift to Creation, “Christ Himself to sustain His Church”

Many of His disciples left Him for the same reason. The 12 stayed. Many have created there own gods and religions because they lack this spiritual food, because they lack the Holy Spirit given to His Church. This is not new,

Because of the Eucharist missing in your life you have gotten the date wrong as to 100 years after Christ death as His Church was established at Pentecost, the receiving of the Holy Spirit that now dwell within His disciples through His Church which is His body. We are of His body, the One Body of Christ, we are saved in Community, not individually. The Holy Spirit is what Guides our Church to all truth, and this truth is obvious when studied without pre-empted prejudice. The Lord has already done everything possible to bring about eternal life for His Created Children.

Yet we are saved one at a time as our eyes our opened. The final score is presented on the Cross where we have Victory over Satan, over sin and death in Jesus. But we are still in the game.

All we need do is fall to our knees asking for Mercy and we will receive it abundantly, eternally. Its all found in the message of the Cross, in His suffering. This is where the resurrection is found, where our hope lies.

This Church you speak of is Jesus Himself. If you separate yourself from His One Body, from the Trinity, the One Spirit that gives you your very life you will die.

How long can you go under water without oxygen and live?
Jesus is not just a good man to us… He is our Creator

How long can you survive in outer space without oxygen and live?
Jesus is what illuminates us, without Him we are nothing

You and I are Gods Creation, we cannot live eternally unless we live in Him. Do you not know that we have been baptized into the death of Christ in order to be raised in Christ…something to ponder.

If you want to find real spiritual joy, get connected to His One Spirit so to speak, then go into a Catholic Church, under the Crucifix and pray…but mostly keep silent and listen. I would ask your Father “why the Cross?” Why this Crucifix? Why suffering?

In Christ
Rich
www.utahmission.com
www.chooseyourcross.com
 
[SIGN][/SIGN]
catholic-rcia said:
***I would never deny that. At least up to the part about the Eucharist. ***

That makes a lot of sense, you are not special in not understanding or in accepting it as the greatest gift to Creation, “Christ Himself to sustain His Church”

Many of His disciples left Him for the same reason. The 12 stayed. Many have created there own gods and religions because they lack this spiritual food, because they lack the Holy Spirit given to His Church. This is not new,

Because of the Eucharist missing in your life you have gotten the date wrong as to 100 years after Christ death as [SIGN]His Church was established at Pentecost, the receiving of the Holy Spirit [/SIGN]that now dwell within His disciples through His Church which is His body. We are of His body, the One Body of Christ, we are saved in Community, not individually. The Holy Spirit is what Guides our Church to all truth, and this truth is obvious when studied without pre-empted prejudice. The Lord has already done everything possible to bring about eternal life for His Created Children.

Yet we are saved one at a time as our eyes our opened. The final score is presented on the Cross where we have Victory over Satan, over sin and death in Jesus. But we are still in the game.

All we need do is fall to our knees asking for Mercy and we will receive it abundantly, eternally. Its all found in the message of the Cross, in His suffering. This is where the resurrection is found, where our hope lies.

This Church you speak of is Jesus Himself. If you separate yourself from His One Body, from the Trinity, the One Spirit that gives you your very life you will die.

How long can you go under water without oxygen and live?
Jesus is not just a good man to us… He is our Creator

How long can you survive in outer space without oxygen and live?
Jesus is what illuminates us, without Him we are nothing

You and I are Gods Creation, we cannot live eternally unless we live in Him. Do you not know that we have been baptized into the death of Christ in order to be raised in Christ…something to ponder.

If you want to find real spiritual joy, get connected to His One Spirit so to speak, then go into a Catholic Church, under the Crucifix and pray…but mostly keep silent and listen. I would ask your Father “why the Cross?” Why this Crucifix? Why suffering?

In Christ
Rich
www.utahmission.com
www.chooseyourcross.com
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Thank-you, I was going to correct him but I see you beat me to the draw!👍
 
Catholic-Rica,

Sorry but what you are saying sounds like gobbledee-gook to me. I have no idea what this means:
Because of the Eucharist missing in your life you have gotten the date wrong as to 100 years after Christ death as His Church was established at Pentecost, the receiving of the Holy Spirit that now dwell within His disciples through His Church which is His body. We are of His body, the One Body of Christ, we are saved in Community, not individually.
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That sounds like why the Eucharist is now missing in my life, e.g. why I am no longer Catholic. The Mormon church makes sense to me.
 
rmcmullan said:
Catholic-Rica,

Sorry but what you are saying sounds like gobbledee-gook to me. I have no idea what this means:

That sounds like why the Eucharist is now missing in my life, e.g. why I am no longer Catholic. The Mormon church makes sense to me.
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So believing that you will be reunitied with your partner after death makes more sense that catholicism even though Christ said this;

Mark 12

25"For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
 
rmcmullan said:
Catholic-Rica,

Sorry but what you are saying sounds like gobbledee-gook to me. I have no idea what this means:

This:
Because of the Eucharist missing in your life you have gotten the date wrong as to 100 years after Christ death as His Church was established at Pentecost, the receiving of the Holy Spirit that now dwell within His disciples through His Church which is His body. We are of His body, the One Body of Christ, we are saved in Community, not individually.

That sounds like why the Eucharist is now missing in my life, e.g. why I am no longer Catholic. The Mormon church makes sense to me.
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Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it
See if the scriptures below, after what I have written makes any sense to you as well?

*First of all the Church was not established 100 years after Christ death, you don’t need the Holy Spirit to tell you that. It was established at Pentacost as the Scriptures attest to. If you were once Catholic then you should know that the Holy Spirit spoke to the prophets of Old from the oustside in. Since Christ left us His Holy Spirit it now speaks to his followers from the inside out. In otherwords I don;'t need a modern day prophet to tell me drinking is bad for instance. The Holy Spirit tells me that drinking is ok…to much is a sin. As is with almost everyhting. *

*Or when I was a child that dark skinned people were marked, you know what I mean…As a Child raised LDS I knew something was wrong in that, that was before I became a Christian. That was easy stuff to decifer. *

*Or when I was told about Mormon History in the Americas, I grew up, I learned the real history, I learned how the real gospel of Christ was spread through the Americas by real Catholic Missionaries such as this one that brough Christ to myself *
utahmission.com/pages/cJouges_page.html

Great pictures of mighty warriors worked well on me as a child, the ensign, the real stories pierced my very soul right through my heart.

*You say I speak a lot of *gobbledee-gook.

I know you know I am only speaking the truth. What is it that seems to be more important to you? What is your god that keeps you from God? Your husband? Your family? Your position in your church? Teaching maybe? I know why you are here. Pick up the Cross…you don’t need to do this.

If that is gobbledee-gook to you, forgive me, then I would be mis reading you…
Am I?

Your Church teaches multiple gods, maybe not in the book of Mormon but all that has been changed. Christians worship One. There is a difefrence between thinking of God as part of His creation, rather than thinking of Him as Creation itself. One brings life, the other death no matter how good it appears. Appearance means nothing. Gods Mercy means everyhting
1 Corinthians
Chapter 121 Now in regard to spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware. 2 2 You know how, when you were pagans, you were constantly attracted and led away to mute idols. 3 Therefore, I tell you that nobody speaking by the spirit of God says, “Jesus be accursed.” And no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the holy Spirit. (TRINITY) 4 3 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit; (TRINITY)5 there are different forms of service but the same Lord; 6 there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone. (TRINITY)7 To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit; (TRINITY)9 to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit; 10 to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit (TRINITY) produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes. 12 4 As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. 13 For in one Spirit (TRINITY) we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit. Continued even in your King James…
 
In the Catechism you can read the account of the fall. It fits all of us well as we are all fallen. But the LDS church has take it hook line and sinker. It is amazing to me how one can innocently walk down this path. But the Devil spins us all at times very well. Its not about me being smarter that you or visa versa. Its about each of us loving each other to the point of true humility. Its ok in otherwords to be fooled. Its not ok to accept it. We owe that much to the one that hung on the Cross for our sins. We do owe Him all…Our God, Lord and Creator died for us…He is the Tree in the Middle of the Garden. But we had to take Him as if we could posses Him on our own…in our own right. We , mankind severed the Chord of Grace because we took the Devils lie as truth… as a good thing. If your Mormon think about this. As Catholics we are not much different, I just fully beleive we have come, not all of us…to know the Devils game. To understand the Suffering Christ, our own sins, the Cross…the cost

We have Confession and Eucharist to keep us playing it “right” until we die

Catechism
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p7.shtml

In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God,” but "without God, before God, and not in accordance with God."279
 
Catholic-Rica,

I guess we both have a very different understanding of the scripture in 1 Cor 12.

I apologize if I offended you by insinuating you were talking goobledee-gook. I was trying to say I do not understand it at all. I come across this every now and then: people talk and I hear their words and they’re familiar words and they seem to be strung together in syntactically correct sentences but I have no idea what they are saying. Almost all of Walden Pond is g-gook to me. Also almost anything written by Steven Covey. And any description of how we become the body of Christ.
 
catholic-rcia said:
Your Church teaches multiple gods, maybe not in the book of Mormon but all that has been changed. Christians worship One. There is a difefrence between thinking of God as part of His creation, rather than thinking of Him as Creation itself. One brings life, the other death no matter how good it appears. Appearance means nothing. Gods Mercy means everyhting
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Well all I can say is that you’re sort of proving my point here. Let’s say the Catholic church, despite the loss of Apostolic leadership, managed to get most of it right and kept it right for 2,000 years. God is pleased and wants to help out by revealing the fulness of His original teachings. But the Catholic church is so entrenched, they don’t receive it! There had to be a restoration and it couldn’t be from within the church itself.
 
rmcmullan said:
Well all I can say is that you’re sort of proving my point here. Let’s say the Catholic church, despite the loss of Apostolic leadership, managed to get most of it right and kept it right for 2,000 years. God is pleased and wants to help out by revealing the fulness of His original teachings. But the Catholic church is so entrenched, they don’t receive it! There had to be a restoration and it couldn’t be from within the church itself.
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All I need do is gaze up at the Crcuifix… there lies the restoration of all things.
Your quote above reeks of pride. It comes from the lips of a fallen angel, to the tip of your own fingers. This battle is in each one of us. You have no lock on it.

The fullness of the LDS gospel is very real, if you read the account of the fall it leaves no doubt at all. Its just not in the fullness of Christ’s Gospel. What did Satan offer in the dessert that was bad? Food? Riches? Etc… I have been to multi level marketing meetings in a past life that seemed very good. I have never seen a people so happy and joyful when they fully expected to become rich. I am speaking about very good people here, just a bit lost.

When you speak of the fall of the Catholic Church, with the knowledge you have at your fingertips you are committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, against God and His One Body of Believers, (All Christian’s Catholic or not) you are also bearing false witness.

The Mormon Church offers what we all want…family…Divinity…. Eternal life……lasting Joy….etc….but in that only the world…only better right?

The problem is it is not Jesus offering it

Because I have the Holy Spirit in me to guide me I can see these truths clearly. I am with the LDS most of the day, what I see in them I have in myself as well. Mostly it comes down to pride and ego. You may have had a poor experience in the Catholic faith that you came to know and posses on your own, but we all come to know it in our own time and way.

For instance, If you had a bad experience as a child say with a mother and father you may decide not to have children etc…does that mean marriege is a bad thing?

So you find another way as it is offered. But you never really saw the center of our faith clearly. You left to fullfil something missing in your life. It was about you

I was Baptized into Christ 11 years ago here in Utah. I am still on fire because of His love in spite of myself. I see many Catholics asleep in their faith, I see many very much alive in it. Those who have come to understand it CHERISH it beyond expression. We are sinners…we are very much loved. Under the cross we forgive…we reconcile. It’s not about us, what we do, what we don’t do, rather it’s all about Jesus and what He has done for us. You tell me I am missing the Mormon Revelation, the extras etc… Looking directly at the Crucifix, seeing how my sin played a part in the Crucifixion of my Savior. Seeing His arms outstretched for me, because He loves me. you tell me what you can add to that? What was accomplished once for all? All Prophesies were fulfilled in Him. It’s enough to last forever.

But you say there is more…your going to offer me eternal life after I have already found it? Your going to offer me the eternal family after I have already been baptized into it? Your going to give me another Jesus, another Gospel after I have already said no to it?

Your going to give me other goals to achieve when my Goal is already to be with my Lord and God Jesus for all eternity? Forever giving Him praise for the gift of life He has given to me? What is it that you are offering here? Does this not sound familiar to you? Again read the account in the Garden of Eden, then the account in the desert.

You tell me that Jesus managed to get most of it right. Because that is what you are really saying right? That He lies? That His Father lies? There really is only one liar , He being the father of lies. Hell is a confusing place where nothing is really attained or understood, where nothing really makes sense, distortions, lack of reality, covering things up, pretending etc….

You need to come back home. We are all in the end Prodigal sons and daughters. I was not born into the Catholic faith, although I was born because of it. I found it 40 years into my life kicking and screaming on the way to RCIA to make my wife happy. I hit the lottery, I don’t need one single dime. Spend some time at my site

www.utahmission.com
 
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