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Xavierlives
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Hmm… I’m not sure where I said the Church (I’m assuming you mean CC) has varied in teaching. Did I say it?
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Xavierlives
Guest
The scripture is that Christians are the temple. (John 14:23; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 2:21; 1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16). I was not saying that in each of us, there are individual church-states. I am saying as a collective, we are added to the body of believers. 1 Cor. 12:13-18 sums it up:13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
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rinnie
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Thats how I took it when you said the house has varied in blueprint?? Thats how I took it. Maybe explain. If my bad I apologize!
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Xavierlives
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I used the blueprint to building analogy because I think it is fitting for both Catholic and Protestant discussion as well as a limited used for the Mormons. If you have ever built or renovated, you know that there are plans drawn up. These plans sometimes specify any number of details. Any slight variation in the actual blueprint is not going to bring the house crashing in on itself. I can move electrical sockets. I adjust plumbing. Now I know the CC (and likely you) would like to say there has never been a change in 2000 years… Well there has, but those changes mean nothing to the structural integrity of the house. The most recent example would be the warm welcome of the Anglican Church into the fold. Again, it is minor and there is no chance the house is falling, but it is change.Thats how I took it when you said the house has varied in blueprint?? Thats how I took it. Maybe explain. If my bad I apologize!
Now Mormons want to say, everything is bad in the house. They want to tear the whole thing down. The problem is, they can’t tear it down because they can’t afford to do it. They desperately want to be called Christians, and they have to use the Bible. So, they are smashing down load bearing walls and making their building unsafe.
Ok, I think that’s the limit of the comparison.
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rinnie
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I agree that all of our bodys are temples of God. But I do not think we are the Church. I believe that Jesus is the Church not us.
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rinnie
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When we say there has never been any change in 2000 years we mean the teaching of the Catholic faith. I think you are thinking of changes of disciplines thats a big difference. A teaching in the CC can never change because only Jesus can change it. So until he comes back it is what it is.
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Xavierlives
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Again, this is coming from a “protestant,” but I don’t have a problem with changes with the Catholic church. Or if you say there are none, I do not keep up with the inner workings to know either way.
My basic analysis here was based on the fact that the Mormon church says the Catholic Church is broken. I don’t see it as such.
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rinnie
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Thank-you Xa. I appreciate that honest response!
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Zundrah
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They complain about the selling of indulgences. But what are indulgences anyway!? I know the rosary is one.
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Zundrah
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We are the temples, yes. But the church is the word, y’know, the gospel. There is only one thing that teaches the gospel accurately, and that is the Catholic Church.
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Xavierlives
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The Mormons use indulgences as an example of apostacy?
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Bill_Pick
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I hate to tell you but the Rosary is NOT a inddulgences
To pray an entire Rosary, you must pray 20 times
the “Our Father,” 10 “Hail Mary’s” and the “Glory Be” in that order.
The Rosary is been divided into 4 parts of 5 decades each.
Each of the four parts is called a Chaplet.
To pray an entire Chaplet, you must pray 5 times
the “Our Father,” 10 “Hail Mary’s” and “Glory Be” in that order.
The general practice of Catholic is to commit themselves to
praying one Chaplet per day.
Now you have some thing to grape about
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rinnie
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According to the RCC its a plenary indulgence Bill. She is right! Check it out.
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Bill_Pick
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Are you telling me the rosary is a indulgence
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Jay53
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The Rosary, itself, is not an indulgence, but you can gain an indulgence from saying the Rosary.
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choy
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why would anyone think that Jesus would abandon His Church?
first, the metaphors Christ uses for the Church describe two parts that are distinct but inseperable. head (Jesus) and body (church). husband (Jesus) and wife (church)
second, even with the many sins of the Church leaders, why would Jesus abandon it? God did not abandon Israel despite their sins. their continous idolatry and other sins did not cause for God to abandon them. instead, God still sent His only Son to be their Messiah. so if God didn’t abandon Israel despite of their sins, why would Jesus abandon His Church if they sinned?
first, the metaphors Christ uses for the Church describe two parts that are distinct but inseperable. head (Jesus) and body (church). husband (Jesus) and wife (church)
second, even with the many sins of the Church leaders, why would Jesus abandon it? God did not abandon Israel despite their sins. their continous idolatry and other sins did not cause for God to abandon them. instead, God still sent His only Son to be their Messiah. so if God didn’t abandon Israel despite of their sins, why would Jesus abandon His Church if they sinned?
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KathleenGee
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I have gone through all the posts and have not found one single post proving the Catholic Church is false.
A former Catholic asked for signs said may be a new thread should be used…
The 7 sacraments are visible signs of the interior presence of God within.
People don’t think … the early church was primitive, it was beginning, the title ‘pope’ is an English one…used later on…
The seat of Rome, the primacy of Peter has historically always been the place of authority and sign of unity…the split with Orthodoxy could reverse itself and be healed within our lifetime…
I am finding that common words mean such, such different things between the Mormon and the Catholic…mindboggling…
You can give all the right answers and reasons for and because of the different references they have, you just spin out…
The God we believe in is very, very big. He was big enough to forgive our sins of past leaders.
A former Catholic asked for signs said may be a new thread should be used…
The 7 sacraments are visible signs of the interior presence of God within.
People don’t think … the early church was primitive, it was beginning, the title ‘pope’ is an English one…used later on…
The seat of Rome, the primacy of Peter has historically always been the place of authority and sign of unity…the split with Orthodoxy could reverse itself and be healed within our lifetime…
I am finding that common words mean such, such different things between the Mormon and the Catholic…mindboggling…
You can give all the right answers and reasons for and because of the different references they have, you just spin out…
The God we believe in is very, very big. He was big enough to forgive our sins of past leaders.
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Xavierlives
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That’s why I find the Mormon stance such an interesting one. They have to take a protestant/reformation position because of the time it was formed, but then head off following some CC ideals, some Jewish ideals, and some new ones.
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rmcmullan
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You’re also missing another LDS point and that is what the church is. There hasn’t been any serious work that I’ve seen stating how the prophets and holy men of God were replaced by a church. Look in the Old Testament, there’s both a church and there are prophets as well.
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rinnie
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That is what I cannot understand though, the protestant reformation is when luther split from the Catholic Church. The CC stayed exactly the same. How they can think that a Catholic Monk leaving the RCC could make the RCC no longer does not make sense. Now if Luther left the RCC and the RCC was no longer, yes I could see the point. But it never happened. Luther left the RCC not the Holy Spirit. The RCC was never ran by Luther in the first place it is and always has been run by the HS. Where did Jesus ever say that the Church would be led by any Priest anyway. He said the Holy Spirit would lead the Pope not the Pope lead the HS for goodness sakes.
I cannot believe that Mormons buy this!By the way, if when Luther left, the RCC was no more, then someone needed to tell the Bishops and Popes etc of that time. And lets not forget the HS. Because from the day of Pentecost to the present we still believe and the HS still believes that he is running the show!
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