LDS view of passion

[catholic-rcia]

God Bless John Paul, the work he allowed Christ to do through him.

Catholicdude wrote
The garden wasn’t the place where Christ fulfilled His mission; it was in that area where Christ asked if the mission was to even happen. Something to the effect of “If it is possible let this cup pass by…” indicating that the real work was yet to come, and only IF the Father willed it.

And this is why Theology and Church Tradition is so important to learn, to sear it into your heart and soul.

In the Garden he was preparing to take on the sins of the world , to take them to the Cross, to die with them and in him.

In the Garden he allowed himself to feel the human pain of being afraid, he felt everyone of our fears. After he allowed himself to absorb this for us, so that he could relate to each of us on a personal level in our own pain he rose and he was ready to continue.

He is an awesome God. Can you not see why the devil tries to lesson the power of the Cross? The power of the Mass? So many times I have heard Mormons say “we focus on the resurrection and not on the death of Jesus” But to be Christian you must know how important it is to first focus on the death, on the Passion, in order to fully understand the Resurrection. You have to go to the cross, you have to embrace the Cross, you have to embrace the suffering Christ. It is not enough to say that you do, you need to live the Passion in your own life, breath it in your life. Easter Sunday, the resurrection is the most glorious event in Human history. There is no religion on earth that understands the Passion of Christ, Easter Sunday more than the Catholic religion.

“Through the Cross, Jesus says you can love it all, even the enemy. There is no scapegoating. Everything, everyone belongs. There is only the broken and suffering Body of Christ eternally crucified, eternally resurrected: the human eternally crucified, eternally resurrected. What faith and surrender and courage it takes to hold the Cross and the Resurrection simultaneously, to let both simultaneously be true in you, in your body, in your marriage, in your children, in your neighborhood, in the Church.” By Richard Rohr, O.F.M.

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**Read this **

www.http://catholic-rcia.com/pages/Why_suffering.html

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[Tmaque]

jack johns:

I think im writing to Vincent here or anyone who’s interested but as i posted in another catagory of things that the cross it what he was kille on. if a gun killed your mother would you want a picture of the gun or your mother. as far as atoning for sins in the garden of gethsemane, yes that is mormon doctrine and he did bleed from all pores of his body as written in John. that isn’t to say that he didn’t suffer on the cross. he did he most certainly did and that as well as the garden of Gethasemane were both places of severe pain uncomprehensible to the mind.

This is a tired, old, failed analogy and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the significance that crucifixion and the cross had in the ancient world. That significance had everything to do with it’s immediate adoption as a symbol of Christ and His message. The world at large has lost it’s abhorrence to the cross, so the significance of it’s use is diminished in that regard. But, for faithful Christians, the cross and the crucifix have incredible meaning in the modern world that most LDS don’t seem to want to grasp.

Can’t you comprehend that the instrument of Christ’s death is the very instrument that brought us eternal life? Why can’t you comprehend that as Catholics we don’t want to avert our eyes from the horrible sight of the crucifixion because we want the enormity of the sacrifice, and our responsibilty for it burned into our mind? How can one look upon a crucifix and not feel humbled? How can one contemplate the Crucifixion and not feel God’s love and an eternal wellspring of hope? That is what I see and feel when I look at a cross or a crucifix. When we hear someone claiming to be Christian say it has no meaning we find that statement totally unbelievable. It’s things like this that make LDS seem unChristian.

 

[FCEGM]

Once we realize that Our Lord’s words to “take up your cross” are words to be heeded and lived daily, we aren’t ashamed of the Cross, but glory in the it - along with St. Paul. It would be much more pleasant to think that since Christ died on the Cross we are now free from having to carry our own, but we know that contemplating HIS Cross brings the unction of the Holy Spirit Who empowers us to suffer with Him (1 Cor. 12:26; 2 Cor. 1:5, 4:10; Rom. 8:17; 1 Pet. 4:13f) with spiritual joy in the midst of our sufferings, giving them salvific value (Col. 1:24).

In considering the Cross, one does, I think, see the (dreadful) fittingness of this means by which Our Savior was put to death: arms outstretched to “gather in” the sins of humanity, and the vertical beam reaching from earth to Heaven. So even in this symbol of death we contemplate a Death beyond our comprehension.

 

[catholic-rcia]

The Cross is the greatest symbol for all Christians. Satan hates the cross and the Mass because they are perpetual reminders of his defeat. The Cross in the Catholic Church, with Christ in his agony reminds us of our sin, what we have done, what we have failed to do, and what Christ has done for us. We ask the Church, all the saints and angels to pray for each of us to the Lord our God. That Crucifix shows us how much our God loves us by laying down His life for us. By pouring out His love and mercy to all who come face to face with their own sin, He teaches us forgiveness. The Cross teaches us humility, which is the opposite of pride. It reminds us of who Christ is, and who we are. “Jesus came to pay a debt He didn’t owe, because we owed a debt we couldn’t pay” - Unknown. (Lk. 9:23-25, Col. 2:14, Eph. 2:16, Col. 1:21-23, Mk. 10:21)

 

[Micaldor]

Actually, The Passion Re-cut was released as “un-rated”. Mel Gibson said that he resubmitted it, and it came back “R”. It seems to me that if you cut out six minutes of the worst violence, and the movie is still rated R, it must be pretty bad. Most movies ratings will go down if a few seconds are cut out.

I once heard someone say this about the movie.(paraphrasing).
“I watch things for two reasons, to be entertained or to learn something. I’m certainly not going to be entertained by it and it’s not going to teach me anthing I don’t already know.”

I agree with that. Also, I saw a clip of the garden sceen, and besides being very creepy, was also very unorthodox.

 

[ex-mormon]

Micaldor:

Actually, The Passion Re-cut was released as “un-rated”. Mel Gibson said that he resubmitted it, and it came back “R”. It seems to me that if you cut out six minutes of the worst violence, and the movie is still rated R, it must be pretty bad. Most movies ratings will go down if a few seconds are cut out.

I once heard someone say this about the movie.(paraphrasing).
“I watch things for two reasons, to be entertained or to learn something. I’m certainly not going to be entertained by it and it’s not going to teach me anthing I don’t already know.”

I agree with that. Also, I saw a clip of the garden sceen, and besides being very creepy, was also very unorthodox.

Does this same logic also apply to reading? Yes this movie was visually poweful, but so is reading the four gospels. How was the gaden seen “unorthodox”?

 

[catholic-rcia]

This is also the way, as a young Mormon I was taught to study the Bible. I would only be shown a clip of it, the Mormon Church teaching would pick up the rest of their own story.

The garden scene in its entirety was tremendous. After he had felt all of our human emotions when it came to our own fear of suffering he rose, crushed the head of that serpent, looked the devil into his rightful place and was ready for the next phase in order to take our sins to the Cross, where he would die with them in himself.

There has been a lot of good coverage on the Popes death here in Utah on the local channels. The LDS Conference has been going on simultaneously. So at times you hear the word “restoration” while the news reports on the conference. Restoration meaning that he Catholic Church was restored by Joseph Smith, given the keys, the priesthood back that the Catholic Church lost. The feeling that the Devil wants me to feel in this is really no different than living in this deception so I pray and ask that they be forgiven in their innocence of these matters. . If I get angry what does that do? It is a hard thing, a Cross to bear. Which in turn is a good thing?

 

[tkdnick]

jack johns:

Ias far as atoning for sins in the garden of gethsemane, yes that is mormon doctrine and he did bleed from all pores of his body as written in John.

Actually, Luke 22:44 says his sweat was ***like ***drops of blood. John doesn’t talk about Jesus bleeding in the garden.

Here’s some earlier comments (post #20):

Scholars tend to think what happened was called hemadrosis (??). It is a condition where the capillaries that supply blood to the sweat glads actually break and the blood in them tinges the sweat red, so as the person sweats, their sweat looks like blood because it is tinged with blood. It is not a full on, sweating of blood, but there is some blood in the sweat.

 

[Chris-WA]

Did LDS leadership have anything to publicly say about “The Passion of the Christ?” Given that they have previously discouraged members (and rightly so) from seeing rated R movies, why would they not come out and give some guidance regarding whether or not Mormons should see this movie? They seem to have remained strangely silent on the issue. I’m sure there are many LDS out there that wanted to see it but didn’t know if it would be o.k. or not. My wife is a devout Mormon and she went with me to see it, and I know she was greatly moved by it. Given the fact that there is so much junk from Hollywood in our theaters, it seems to me this would be the one movie every Christian would want to see and not avoid.

 

[flameburns623]

Chris-WA:

Did LDS leadership have anything to publicly say about “The Passion of the Christ?” Given that they have previously discouraged members (and rightly so) from seeing rated R movies, why would they not come out and give some guidance regarding whether or not Mormons should see this movie? They seem to have remained strangely silent on the issue. I’m sure there are many LDS out there that wanted to see it but didn’t know if it would be o.k. or not. My wife is a devout Mormon and she went with me to see it, and I know she was greatly moved by it. Given the fact that there is so much junk from Hollywood in our theaters, it seems to me this would be the one movie every Christian would want to see and not avoid.

I know that on the LDS forums at Deseret Books and on Beliefnet, there were FIERCE quarrels between the most-conservative LDS, who cited repeated counsel by the First Presidency of the Church to NEVER, EVER, FOR ANY REASON, see an “R”-rated film, and those LDS who felt there to be extenuating circumstances in respect to “The Passion of the Christ”. Remember the issue has come up for the LDS previously–“Saving Private Ryan” and “Schindler’s List” also had some very positive messages, and I believe that each was rated “R”. (A film which carried a “PG” rating might also be off-limits if it contained nudity, violence, or excessive coarse language–the more-moderate LDS pointed out this pretty much rules out anything except Disney films, and not a lot of those). And I believe that at least one member of the First Presidency has addressed the issue of ‘unrated’ films, which typically are foreign films FULL of sexual content and/or violence. The spirit of the guidance from the First Presidency is to avoid ALL such films, presumably in an attempt to put pressure on filmakers to stop making such filth. Mormons are now producing several films of their own every year–“The Work and the Glory” was the latest of these. So far as I know these films get ‘panned’ by filmakers–only one of them has been a true commercial success–but the apparent goal of a cleaner, more moral Hollywood is commendable, even if a film such as “The Passion” suffers collateral damage as a consequence of the policy.

ex-mormon:

Does this same logic also apply to reading?

So far as books go–Mormons may not purchase pornography. (Surprise, surprise). They have been rebuked from the pulpit for excessive consumption of ‘romance’ or ‘pulp fiction’ novels. I owned a book by Kahlil Gibran, a Lebanese poet, artist, and storyteller from the early 1900’s. Gibran’s book, “The Prophet” is deemed a classic of literature, though it is rather a New Age-y sort of thing. The book includes prints of some of Gibran’s artwork–human nudes in very odd poses. (Genitalia is not exposed, as memory serves me). An LDS missionary who picked up the book and turned to one of the prints dropped it as if it had burned him. “You should have a book like that around your house” he told me. The fact that the book is a classic carried no weight with this person, and in fact–per this one missionary–faithful Mormons are highly judicious even about what sort of art galleries they will peruse.

Remember, of course, that LDS missionaries are fairly young and perhaps prone to an excessive zeal. AND they are under some very strict guidelines while on missions. I believe that among Mormons as among Catholics there are varying degrees of strictness in interpreting guidance from church leadership. One can however scarcely criticise Mormons for seeking to be consistent in their behavior.

Bear in mind that until I don’t quite know when–“Radio Replies” was still fielding questions about the subject in the 1920’s and 30’s–Catholics published something called the “Index of Prohibited Books”. In addition most diocesan papers put out guidance regularly about books and films to avoid. A lot of this has gone by the wayside since Vatican II but it was as much a part of Catholic culture once upon a time as it remains in Mormon culture.