LDS View of the Great Apostasy

[Fatboys]

At least you’ve gotten answers. We repeatedly request sources from you and don’t get a thing.

Have you ever found a reference for your statement that 99% of the changes to the BoM were punctuation and grammar? How long have we been waiting for that answer. By the way, I showed you at least 2 doctrinal changes to the BoM.

Are you saying that you have read and studied the Book of Mormon and came up with two examples of doctrinal changes? I stand in awe. There are no doctrinal changes, but clarifications. Oh there is a double standard when clarification for its doctrine versus catholic clarification.

You really amaze me.

Finally I have amazed someone. I am going to frame this and show it to my wife.

Just about every mormon that has posted on here has disputed the god was once man thing as never being doctrine, but yet you claim it is. Who is right, you or mormon apologists? The last I knew, the King Follett Discourse was not considered scripture by mormons.

Can’t wait for this answer.

When did I say that God being once a man was doctrine. It never has been doctrine. It was a statement made by a prophet who was not even speaking as a prophet. It was his opinion. Do I believe it? Yes I do because it makes logical sense. Why because God commandes us to be perfect as he is, and we can not become perfect as he is unless we gain knowledge. As we gain knowledge and discipline our selves to perfection we become like our Savior which means that we will inherit all the Father has. That is his promise not mormon twist.

 

[Fatboys]

What?!? but, you are questioning what God/Jesus can do. And what false doctrine are you talking about? Jesus answered your question about how everyone needs to repent and be baptized. Jesus told the thief, “Today, You will be with me in Paradise.” So, now you are saying Jesus lied to the thief. You’ll be in paradise, psyche, you’re not baptized and no ordinances so you go to Hell, do not pass GO do not collect $200.

This is so funny. You are saying I am limiting God, but God could not create perfect beings who can choose good over evil. I am limiting God who had to have a backup plan for his creations. I am limiting God because God had to have a Savior to save us. I am limiting God who sends babies who are innocent and not capable of doing anything wrong into a place where they may or may not be saved.

 

[Fatboys]

It all makes perfect sense now why the mormons are limiting God. They believe God was once a man that walked the earth. So if God was a man, then He can make mistakes and would be limited to what He could do.

If you lived long enough to learn all the knowledge there was, what would you be called? If you had all the knowledge there was, could you say to a mountain move and it would move? If you had all the knowledge there was, could you know the past present and future. If you had all knowledge, could you reach perfection? Stop being so narrow minded. I am not asking you to believe anything, and this is not part of our doctrine.

 

[Fatboys]

So the good thief, then, according to LDS theology, went to inherit one of the 3 kingdoms, yes?

Or can someone who’s in paradise still go to hell?

That’s the only 2 choices you are left with, Fatboys: either the good thief went on to inherit his kingdom, or he went to hell.

If you say it’s the latter, then you believe someone can first be in paradise, and then go to hell.

If you believe it’s the former, then the objection to the Catholic teaching on baptism is refuted.

Revelations 20:12
And I saw the dead great and small stand before God and the books were open and another book was opened, which is the book of life , and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books according to their works.

Does God lie? The thief can not be judged until the final judgement in which his book will be opened his works will be displayed whether they were good or whether they were evil. Thank goodness for repentance. That is when the thief will know what kingdom his is worthy of. This judgement is not left to you or me, but to Christ for the Father judgeth no man but has left all judgement unto the Son.

 

[twopekinguys]

Are you saying that you have read and studied the Book of Mormon and came up with two examples of doctrinal changes? I stand in awe. There are no doctrinal changes, but clarifications. Oh there is a double standard when clarification for its doctrine versus catholic clarification.

Finally I have amazed someone. I am going to frame this and show it to my wife.

When did I say that God being once a man was doctrine. It never has been doctrine. It was a statement made by a prophet who was not even speaking as a prophet. It was his opinion. Do I believe it? Yes I do because it makes logical sense. Why because God commandes us to be perfect as he is, and we can not become perfect as he is unless we gain knowledge. As we gain knowledge and discipline our selves to perfection we become like our Savior which means that we will inherit all the Father has. That is his promise not mormon twist.

So you’re saying you made up the 99% figure? Like most everything else you have come up with?

So, you believe non doctrinal statements about the mormon god that were made with no scriptural foundation, just because it makes sense? I have this really cool bridge for sale, it’s been used very little.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Does God lie? The thief can not be judged until the final judgement in which his book will be opened his works will be displayed whether they were good or whether they were evil.

Here you go subjecting God to the limits of time again because you don’t understand that God is eternal.

 

[PRmerger]

Revelations 20:12
And I saw the dead great and small stand before God and the books were open and another book was opened, which is the book of life , and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books according to their works.

Does God lie? The thief can not be judged until the final judgement in which his book will be opened his works will be displayed whether they were good or whether they were evil. Thank goodness for repentance. That is when the thief will know what kingdom his is worthy of. This judgement is not left to you or me, but to Christ for the Father judgeth no man but has left all judgement unto the Son.

So LDS theology believes that someone can be in paradise and then go to hell?

Yes, or no?

Pretty simple question, really.

Do you know your LDS theology, Fatboys? What says the Mormon Church regarding a person who is in paradise?

[SIGN1]Is it possible for him to go to hell still?[/SIGN1]

And yes or no will suffice for now. Thanks.

 

[CopticChristian]

Porknpie;10020455:

Fat-

God desires all to be saved. He is not bound by laws which is good for you. . But you are asking the wrong question. St Ignatius writes in 110 AD. Do you believe the great schism was in place already? The early church got it wrong immediately from the apostles who were taught by Christ?
Ignatius of Antioch

**“Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism , he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine , he has no part in the passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3–4:1 [A.D. 110]).

The bread and wine represent symboliclly the flesh and blood. This is how we are saved through the torn flesh and the blood that was spilt. His sacrifice not only on the cross but for every act against him for as he was whipped and spit on and the crown of thorns paid for our sins. The pain and suffering he had in the Garden where it was so painful that he sweat as it were great drops of blood.****

This sacrifice satisfied justice in our behalf by giving us Mercy. All this was done through the Grace of God.

It is a bit of the stretch to say that he meant literal flesh and blood. Did the apostles eat the sacrificed flesh and blood of Christ? No he had not yet been sacrificed. What they did so was to partake of his flesh and blood symbolically.

Fat,

Did the crown of thorns and the sweat gain salvation

or

The death and resurrection?

 

[Fatboys]

Fatboys;10020987:

Fat,

Did the crown of thorns and the sweat gain salvation

or

The death and resurrection?

It was all part of it. He was innocent of having any pain inflicted on him. It all mattered. And he suffered upon the cross. He succumbed to death. But had the power to overcome death and resurrect.

 

[Fatboys]

So LDS theology believes that someone can be in paradise and then go to hell?

Yes, or no?

Pretty simple question, really.

Do you know your LDS theology, Fatboys? What says the Mormon Church regarding a person who is in paradise?

[SIGN1]Is it possible for him to go to hell still?[/SIGN1]

And yes or no will suffice for now. Thanks.

Are you saying that it was not possible? Was it possible for Lucifer who was created by God to be cast out?

 

[Fatboys]

So you’re saying you made up the 99% figure? Like most everything else you have come up with?

So, you believe non doctrinal statements about the mormon god that were made with no scriptural foundation, just because it makes sense? I have this really cool bridge for sale, it’s been used very little.

jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_changes.shtml

 

[batman1973]

Dang. This is turning into a “describe a rainbow to a blind man” scenario. Mormons don’t get it. They won’t get it until Jesus frees them from their false faith. All we can do as Christians is pray for the Mormons.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I am still waiting for your source from Humanae Vitae that tells you that Catholics believe that sex is ONLY for procreation.

(You claimed after reading HV that this is what it said. I have asked, at least 3 times, for you to clarify where it was you read that in HV but thus far you have not addressed it.)

You said so right here:

Please show us where you read that. Thanks.

Could you please address this Fatboys.

 

[Fatboys]

Dang. This is turning into a “describe a rainbow to a blind man” scenario. Mormons don’t get it. They won’t get it until Jesus frees them from their false faith. All we can do as Christians is pray for the Mormons.

And I can say the same for you. Don’t you find it odd that much of your doctrine can not be found with the pages of the Bible? I will pray for you

 

[Fatboys]

Could you please address this Fatboys.

The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life. (12)

 

[Porknpie]

Fat-

God desires all to be saved. He is not bound by laws which is good for you. . But you are asking the wrong question. St Ignatius writes in 110 AD. Do you believe the great schism was in place already? The early church got it wrong immediately from the apostles who were taught by Christ?

Fat - you did not answer my two questions…

Pork

 

[Porknpie]

Fat,

Non-belief in the Eucharist is another area where the LDS has no proof, and not only no proof, but stubbornly ignores the documented history of the Church, just as there was no great apostasy. This is simply a fable a fictitious narrative or statement)

2 Timothy 4

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

So you believe in Jesus words on baptism being needed for salvation but disbelieve his words on the Eucharist. You thus believe Christ taught in error or all 12 disciples heard him in error as the believe in the real presence in the Eucharist was believed through out the church, wherever the apostles went to preach the gospel. There was no belief in a symbolic Eucharist. The “great crowds” left him and Jesus never corrected them, nor his apostles.

So do you believe the great apostasy occured with Christ still on earth?

Tract to read… catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist

It is a bit of the stretch to say that he meant literal flesh and blood. Did the apostles eat the sacrificed flesh and blood of Christ? No he had not yet been sacrificed. What they did so was to partake of his flesh and blood symbolically.

**Fat, do you remember Ronald Reagan? You struggle with God being eternal, and being everywhere at once. Reagan says it better than me.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=t3GnWTy8Ebg**

 

[zaffiroborant]

The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life. (12)

That does not say that sex is only for procreation.

 

[CopticChristian]

And I can say the same for you. Don’t you find it odd that much of your doctrine can not be found with the pages of the Bible? I will pray for you

Fat,

Your prayers are for Protestants that believe in the Bible alone.

 

[twopekinguys]

And I can say the same for you. Don’t you find it odd that much of your doctrine can not be found with the pages of the Bible? I will pray for you

You have made this comment before, and have failed miserably at trying to demonstrate/prove it.

Care to provide one doctrine that is not found in the Bible? Not that you can/will, but we are willing to see what you’ve got.