LDS - Where was the "Fear" in Joseph Smiths' First Vision?

[Techno2000]

Thanks but you linked me to the wrong page. I did find the apologetic page after searching a little. I think that your parish has done a great job with the publications. However, you should talk to the priest about putting some of the pages on line from the publications.

I have been trying to get the local mormon wards to do the same thing but it falls on deaf ears. They just don’t seem to understand the importance of apologetics. And the catholic church where you are seems to be a beautiful church.

However, I have to say…that this does not have anything to do with real history. The mormons have their own general apologetic site that deals with controversial issues too from their history and doctrine.

No this isn’t a apologetic website… it’s the Official "CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH " (ebook) my point is the Pope doesn’t have to go on Larry King because this book speaks for him.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

 

[TheosisM]

No this isn’t a apologetic website… it’s the Official "CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH " (ebook) my point is the Pope doesn’t have to go on Larry King because this book speaks for him.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

And why would the Pope even go on Larry King (seeing how the Mormon prophet lives here, and the Catholic pope does not)? The LDS Church is headquartered in the USA. The Catholic Church is not. People in the USA generally are not familiar with the LDS Church. People generally are familiar with the Catholic Church. Catholic bishops have been on various news shows in the past, we don’t need the Pope to come to the USA to go on Larry King, especially when he would come for other purposes.

uspapalvisit.org/itinerary_en.htm

 

[courtiswa]

Joseph Smith was seeking his answer to his prayer so fear is not the issue here and as I understand the First Vision, he only wanted to know which church to join. He did not know that he would be the instrument in bringing back the restored church of Jesus Christ.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Joseph Smith was seeking his answer to his prayer so fear is not the issue here and as I understand the First Vision, he only wanted to know which church to join. He did not know that he would be the instrument in bringing back the restored church of Jesus Christ.

Evidently, you must have failed to read the first three or four pages of this thread and the seven different accounts of the first vision.

No matter what the reason was that Joseph Smith went to the woods to pray or whether he was seeking an answer is a mute point. Rather I am looking at his reaction while observing God’s Glory - “light above the brightness of the sun” while comparing the appearance to others found in scripture. You can find those by moving backwards in this threads pages.

 

[Rocket_Man]

I don’t think that he experienced fear. We need to remember that he went to the woods to pray in secret to ask Heavenly Father which church to join. He went for a purpose and was expecting an answer to his prayer. First, the darkness appeared and then a bight light that drove the darkness away. I think that I wouldn’t have fear either. I would just be all amazed at the vision before me. No time to be fearful.

You really need to stop and consider this light above the brightness of the sun which is refrenced in many of the seven accounts and consider Joseph’s reaction to viewing it.

I’m not here to argue what you or I would do if we saw it. I’m just looking at what others had done when they saw it when we read about those accounts in scripture.

 

[why_me]

And why would the Pope even go on Larry King (seeing how the Mormon prophet lives here, and the Catholic pope does not)? The LDS Church is headquartered in the USA. The Catholic Church is not. People in the USA generally are not familiar with the LDS Church. People generally are familiar with the Catholic Church. Catholic bishops have been on various news shows in the past, we don’t need the Pope to come to the USA to go on Larry King, especially when he would come for other purposes.

uspapalvisit.org/itinerary_en.htm

First it would ba a major interest story. Second, it would make him accessible to a wide audience. Third, he can represent the catholic church.

But you will never find him fielding questions on Larry King or anywhere else. He would have nothing to gain but everything to lose. It is that simple. The Pope would not be able to answer questions about birth control in africa, sex abuse scandal, women priests, condoms, same sex marriage etc. However, the media may not want to offend catholics so they could treat him with rubber gloves.

But marie, should not complain if the former mormon prophet appeared on larry king and got caught off guard. He was in his nineties.

 

[why_me]

Evidently, you must have failed to read the first three or four pages of this thread and the seven different accounts of the first vision.

No matter what the reason was that Joseph Smith went to the woods to pray or whether he was seeking an answer is a mute point. Rather I am looking at his reaction while observing God’s Glory - “light above the brightness of the sun” while comparing the appearance to others found in scripture. You can find those by moving backwards in this threads pages.

See post number 53. I have no idea what it means but it does look interesting.

 

[heathernoel]

Why on earth would the Pope demean himself by appearing on Larry King or ANY talk show, for that matter?

He doesn’t have to sell Catholicism. He is NOT a salesman. The Church stands on its own.

I couldn’t imagine the Pope…any Pope, demeaning himself that way!



Just my :twocents:

 

[Techno2000]

mormon prophet

What is a Mormon prophet ?

 

[Rocket_Man]

See post number 53. I have no idea what it means but it does look interesting.

Post 53 is a excerpt of another vision found outside of scripture where St. Sergius had seen the light, brighter than the sun as Joseph Smith had also described. Notice that St. Sergius is “unable to bear the vision” and followed by the exhortation from the Mother of God, “Fear not”. This pattern is consistent with other angelophanies and theophanies found in scripture but lacking in Joseph Smith’s first vision.

Appearance of the Most Holy Theotokos to St. Sergius of Radonezh

St. Sergius rushed from the cell to the entrance, and suddenly it was illumined by a bright light, brighter than the sun. He beheld nearby in imperishable glory the Mother of God, accompanied by the Apostles Peter and John. Unable to bear such a vision, St. Sergius reverently prostrated himself before the Mother of God.

She said to him, "Fear not, My chosen one! I have come to visit you. Your prayer for your disciples and your monastery has been heard. Do not be troubled, for your habitation shall prosper, not only in your lifetime, but also after your departure to God.

 

[Marie5890]

LK has always said his biggest dream interview would be the Pope.

It was natural for him to have Pres. Hinkley on because his wife, Shawn, is a Mormon and one of Marie Osmond’s best friends…

It’s no doubt why D and M Osmond have often been on his show.

They are close friends with Larry.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Post 53 is a excerpt of another vision found outside of scripture where St. Sergius had seen the light, brighter than the sun as Joseph Smith had also described. Notice that St. Sergius is “unable to bear the vision” and followed by the exhortation from the Mother of God, “Fear not”. This pattern is consistent with other angelophanies and theophanies found in scripture but lacking in Joseph Smith’s first vision.

Appearance of the Most Holy Theotokos to St. Sergius of Radonezh

St. Sergius rushed from the cell to the entrance, and suddenly it was illumined by a bright light, brighter than the sun. He beheld nearby in imperishable glory the Mother of God, accompanied by the Apostles Peter and John. Unable to bear such a vision, St. Sergius reverently prostrated himself before the Mother of God.

She said to him, "Fear not, My chosen one! I have come to visit you. Your prayer for your disciples and your monastery has been heard. Do not be troubled, for your habitation shall prosper, not only in your lifetime, but also after your departure to God.

In the Old Testament, “reverence” occurs as the translation of two Hebrew words: Yare’ (pronounced yaw-ray’), which carries the meaning of “fear.” This word is used to express the attitude toward God Himself. The second word, shachah (pronounced shaw-khaw’), carries the meaning of “falling down” as in the prostration of the body. It is used to express the attitude and bearing toward another who is considered superior. The thought with this word being honor, submission and obeisance.

In the New Testament “reverence” occurs as the translation of three Greek words, Deos, phobeo, and entrepo. Deos (pronounced de-os), which has the meaning of awe and Godly fear, is a feeling of profound awe and respect. Because of His majesty and holiness, God arouses a feeling of reverence in those who worship and serve Him. The second word, phobeo (pronounced fob-eh’-o), carries the thought of being frightened or alarmed, by analogy to be in awe of or to have a deep and abiding respect. This word is used to illustrate the proper attitude of subjection that a wife should have toward her husband. The third word, entrepo (pronounced en-trep’-o), sets forth the idea of a self evaluation of inferiority or superiority over someone else. In the consideration of reverence to God, the former always being the case. The mental imagery is of willingly setting the subject of consideration on a higher level while placing oneself beneath.

Joseph Smith told his “First Vision” story more than seven times in varying accounts yet never mentioned any fear or reverence when viewing the glory of God. Not even once. I’m still puzzled!