Sorry, to correct LivingWaters7. The money is given initially to church headquarters in SLC, where in turn a portion of that is redistributed among the wards. Otherwise the poorer wards would have no money for social programs. Also the money goes to wherever the hierarchy of the church chooses to invest it.The money is donated to the local congregation, and the bishop, the leader of the local congregation, can distribute/use the funds for those in need of food, clothing, shelter, etc.
LW, do yourself a favor. Posting links to LDS apologetic websites to proove LDS points will never work, nor does it prove anything.
If you want to reference something, fine.TExan
I’m suprised at your comments.
When I want to reference official Catholic postions and doctrine, I link to official sources like the catechism or the Catholic Encyclopedia here. I don’t refer to anti-catholic sites like CARM to represent proper doctrine.
Why should mormons or any other religous group be any different? Why shouldn’t they refer to official sources to explain their official teachings?
There’s a difference between sending someone to an anti-Catholic site and sending someone to a neutral third-party site. Which is why I linked earlier to a primary source - a page from a Masonic ritual book - and not something like Utah Lighthouse Ministries. Now, I happen to be rather fond of that site, for the record, but understand how a Mormon would not trust information from that site. I get the same vibes with Jack Chick.TExan
I’m suprised at your comments.
When I want to reference official Catholic postions and doctrine, I link to official sources like the catechism or the Catholic Encyclopedia here. I don’t refer to anti-catholic sites like CARM to represent proper doctrine.
Why should mormons or any other religous group be any different? Why shouldn’t they refer to official sources to explain their official teachings?
Those of us who went through the Mormon Temple ceremonies before 2000 will feel an eerie deja vu to this ceremony and one that happens in the Temple. To refresh your memory - “… your ears, that you may hear the word of the Lord; your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error … your shoulders, that they may bear the burdens that shall be placed thereon; … your arms and hands, that they may be strong and wield the sword of justice in defense of truth and virtue … your legs and feet, that you might run and not be weary, and walk and not faint.” Not 100% the same, but with the symbolism of the blessing each part of the body separately with a specific blessing, it rattled me to the bones and gave me further testimony of the Mormon religion and temple rite being a complete and total lie.THE SIGNING OF THE SENSES
The presider addresses the candidates saying…….
“I mark your forehead with the sign of the cross [all signs of the cross being done with the palm and not the thumb]. It is the sign of Christians. Let it remind you always of Christ and how much he loves you.”
At each of these prayers, the sponsors make the sign of the cross of the areas of the bodies mentioned. “We stand with you, we pray for you, O holy child of God
I mark your ears with the sign of the cross: hear the words of Christ.
I mark your eyes with the sign of the cross: see the works of Christ.
I mark your lips with the sign of the cross: speak as Christ would speak.
I mark the sign of the cross over your heart: make your heart the home of Christ
I mark your shoulders with the sign of the cross; be strong with the strength of Christ.
I mark your hands with the sign of the cross: touch others with the gentleness of Christ.
I mark your feet with the sign of the cross: walk in the way of Christ”
The presider alone traces the sign of the cross over the whole person of each candidate saying … “I place you entirely under the sign of Christ’s cross. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: to live with Jesus now and forever.”
The whole Book of Abraham debacle ranks right up there withe the endowment ceremony = Masonry.Finding objective scientists that will even propose that the people of the Book of Mormon could have theoretically existed is impossible. It’s also impossible to find a non-Mormon neutral scientists that will verify that there is even a possiblility that the Book of Abraham could have been translated into what it became. However, the Book of Abraham has been thoroughly examined and proven to be simply an Egyptian burial scroll bought by Joseph Smith in the 1800’s. This fact has been verifed by multiple Egyptologists who have dedicated their life to learning about the science of heiroglyphics. These people are not anti-Mormons, or pro-Catholics. They are historians and scientists, and all say that the Book of Abraham simply cannot be what it claims to be.
These ceremonies which you hold so dear have been based on a book that has been positively proven to be based on a book which was not translated, but created in the mind of Joseph Smith under false pretenses. And Joseph didn’t just steal from Masons As a Catholic catechumen, I had a huge shock when I went through the Rite of Acceptance as a Catholic:
So Mormon Temple rituals have nothing to do with Jewish Temple rituals?I just read on a Judaish website that the rituals preformed in “The Temple” were sacrifices and most of the sacrifices were eaten. Are any Mormon Temple rituals sacrifices?
RebeccaJ;9278874:
Joseph Smith taught in Oct. 1840 that animal sacrifices in the Mormon temple would be practiced. Brigham Young taught the same in Salt Lake. There are a few people who wrote of performing animal sacrifices in the SLC temple, in a clandestine fashion, but it is not a practice that took hold.
Mormons don’t perform any ritual sacrifices, other than as has been mentioned, they performed a symbolic one as part of oathes. Making motions of slitting their own throat and slicing open their own torso. These symbols and actions were removed from the Mormon temple ceremony in 1991.
the only thing they really have in common is the word “temple”So Mormon Temple rituals have nothing to do with Jewish Temple rituals?
Mormons view their temple rituals as necessary for their salvation.the only thing they really have in common is the word “temple”
So the purpose of the rituals are the same, but the actual rituals are not.Mormons view their temple rituals as necessary for their salvation.
Not quite. The purpose of Jewish temple ceremonies was to offer sacrifice to God. The purpose of Mormon temple ceremonies is to swear oaths of allegiance to the LDS church, and to learn the “signs and symbols” needed for entrance into heaven. The allegience is in a vow of consecration, not to Christ but to the “building up of the Kingdom of God” (read: building up of the LDS church). (“You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.”)So the purpose of the rituals are the same, but the actual rituals are not.
Naw, at least in prison they can watch tv, or otherwise entertain themselves. Mormon church services are boring. There’s no spirit there. It’s a void.Kind of sounds like prison!
I highly doubt that Joseph Smith took anything from the Catholic Rite of Acceptance, because first one would have to demonstrate that this part of RCIA was being practiced in the 1800s, that an apparently optional part of the rite (the “signing of the senses”) was being practiced then, as well as that Joseph Smith had access to/knowledge of this rite. What is clear however is that washing and anointing rites have been a part of Judeo-Christian ritual since ancient times, and Latter-day Saints are not surprised when we see striking parallels to our practices anciently. Washing and Anointing is one of the most beautiful parts of temple worship for me, and I love hearing the blessings pronounced during it. And I love reading this blog that talks about washings and anointings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ as well as anciently: Washings and Anointings.These ceremonies which you hold so dear have been based on a book that has been positively proven to be based on a book which was not translated, but created in the mind of Joseph Smith under false pretenses. And Joseph didn’t just steal from Masons As a Catholic catechumen, I had a huge shock when I went through the Rite of Acceptance as a Catholic:
Those of us who went through the Mormon Temple ceremonies before 2000 will feel an eerie deja vu to this ceremony and one that happens in the Temple. To refresh your memory - “… your ears, that you may hear the word of the Lord; your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error … your shoulders, that they may bear the burdens that shall be placed thereon; … your arms and hands, that they may be strong and wield the sword of justice in defense of truth and virtue … your legs and feet, that you might run and not be weary, and walk and not faint.” Not 100% the same, but with the symbolism of the blessing each part of the body separately with a specific blessing, it rattled me to the bones and gave me further testimony of the Mormon religion and temple rite being a complete and total lie.
Thank you. I am not interested in “proving” Latter-day Saint beliefs to those that do not believe in the Faith, nor am I interested in converting people here. The purpose of posting links to Latter-day Saint articles is to show how believing Latter-day Saints understand and defend certain issues. Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree. This is no different than what I see many Catholics doing throughout this forum, including in the Non-Catholic Religions section, posting links to Catholic websites to expound on Catholic understandings of certain issues, including links to articles on this very website. There is nothing wrong with using those “biased” (not my word) websites to help people understand the Catholic perspective(s) and defense on certain issues, and there should not be an issue of a Latter-day Saint referencing the LDS equivalent of such resources to offer Latter-day Saint perspective(s) and defense on certain issues.TExan
I’m suprised at your comments.
When I want to reference official Catholic postions and doctrine, I link to official sources like the catechism or the Catholic Encyclopedia here. I don’t refer to anti-catholic sites like CARM to represent proper doctrine.
Why should mormons or any other religous group be any different? Why shouldn’t they refer to official sources to explain their official teachings?
The purpose of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to receive blessings from God in this life and the next, to unite families together for eternity, to symbolically (and literally) enter into the presence of God, and to offer various sacred ordinances to the deceased. In the Endowment ordinance, as I have already mentioned, the Plan of Salvation is presented, and one enters into various covenants with God, including obeying the law of sacrifice (yes, the principle of sacrifice is important in the temple and in Latter-day Saint theology), obeying Christ’s Gospel, and doing our part to build the Lord’s Kingdom. The blessings received in the temple most certainly are a part of how one enters the Celestial Kingdom.Not quite. The purpose of Jewish temple ceremonies was to offer sacrifice to God. The purpose of Mormon temple ceremonies is to swear oaths of allegiance to the LDS church, and to learn the “signs and symbols” needed for entrance into heaven. The allegience is in a vow of consecration, not to Christ but to the “building up of the Kingdom of God” (read: building up of the LDS church). (“You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.”)
It’s not the blessings a person gets in the temple that gets one into heaven, it’s those all important handshakes and code phrases that one learns that gives us the “tokens” to slip through the veil and into heaven. Without these handshakes and code words, a person cannot get into heaven. Of course, with a quick Google search, anyone can find the entire verbiage of the ceremony, and learn the phrases. There’s even a video from Big Love with the end part of the ceremony, where the woman gets pulled through the veil, with language that is actually used in the temple. But Joseph Smith apparently did not prophesy about the Internet when he wrote the ceremonies and made people vow to keep them secret.
You keep talking about striking parallels, but you never really ever mention any. Did the Jews make promises to kill each other as Mormons did pre-1990?I highly doubt that Joseph Smith took anything from the Catholic Rite of Acceptance, because first one would have to demonstrate that this part of RCIA was being practiced in the 1800s, that an apparently optional part of the rite (the “signing of the senses”) was being practiced then, as well as that Joseph Smith had access to/knowledge of this rite. What is clear however is that washing and anointing rites have been a part of Judeo-Christian ritual since ancient times, and Latter-day Saints are not surprised when we see striking parallels to our practices anciently. Washing and Anointing is one of the most beautiful parts of temple worship for me, and I love hearing the blessings pronounced during it. And I love reading this blog that talks about washings and anointings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ as well as anciently: Washings and Anointings.
Actually, you ARE trying to prove your points. You are trying, to use an example, to prove coke is better than Pepsi by using coke websites.Thank you. I am not interested in “proving” Latter-day Saint beliefs to those that do not believe in the Faith, nor am I interested in converting people here. The purpose of posting links to Latter-day Saint articles is to show how believing Latter-day Saints understand and defend certain issues. Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree. This is no different than what I see many Catholics doing throughout this forum, including in the Non-Catholic Religions section, posting links to Catholic websites to expound on Catholic understandings of certain issues, including links to articles on this very website. There is nothing wrong with using those “biased” (not my word) websites to help people understand the Catholic perspective(s) and defense on certain issues, and there should not be an issue of a Latter-day Saint referencing the LDS equivalent of such resources to offer Latter-day Saint perspective(s) and defense on certain issues.
The purpose of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to receive blessings from God in this life and the next, to unite families together for eternity, to symbolically (and literally) enter into the presence of God, and to offer various sacred ordinances to the deceased.
Not true. In fact, it did just the opposite. My parents and family were not allowed to attend my wedding (sealing) in the temple because they were not LDS. How, exactly, is that uniting families?
In the Endowment ordinance, as I have already mentioned, the Plan of Salvation is presented, and one enters into various covenants with God, including obeying the law of sacrifice (yes, the principle of sacrifice is important in the temple and in Latter-day Saint theology), obeying Christ’s Gospel, and doing our part to build the Lord’s Kingdom. The blessings received in the temple most certainly are a part of how one enters the Celestial Kingdom.
Plan of Salvation? The one where a Catholic Priest is shown to be an agent of Satan?
LW, I pray daily for you and your family. I hope your soul will be strong enough to bring you out of the false church with its horribly wrong temple ceremonies. You are in my prayers
Look to the history of the Masonic rites, which were specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation.I highly doubt that Joseph Smith took anything from the Catholic Rite of Acceptance, because first one would have to demonstrate that this part of RCIA was being practiced in the 1800s, that an apparently optional part of the rite (the “signing of the senses”) was being practiced then, as well as that Joseph Smith had access to/knowledge of this rite. What is clear however is that washing and anointing rites have been a part of Judeo-Christian ritual since ancient times, and Latter-day Saints are not surprised when we see striking parallels to our practices anciently. Washing and Anointing is one of the most beautiful parts of temple worship for me, and I love hearing the blessings pronounced during it. And I love reading this blog that talks about washings and anointings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ as well as anciently: Washings and Anointings.
I would be interested in sources that document that Freemasonry degree ceremonies were “specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation”.Look to the history of the Masonic rites, which were specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation.
Right, this is quite common knowledge.Masons made a claim that their rites came straight from Solomon, which, has been proven to be a false claim.
Joseph Smith was initiated into the Masons, and just a few weeks later, took the exact rite, word for word, and claimed it was given to him by God to be used in the Mormon temple. Brighamite Mormons have since changed their temple rite, several times.
I have read multiple books and articles on the topic, by Latter-day Saints (including some that are also Freemasons) and critics (including the popular “Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Temple Worship”). I am particularly fond of this review of that work, which briefly demonstrates the evolution of temple worship in the Church of Jesus Christ, including Freemasonry’s relationship to a portion of it. What actually occurred is far more nuanced than the above.It was all just a ruse, from beginning to end.
I would be interested in sources that document that Freemasonry degree ceremonies were “specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation”.
I find this request odd after I have asked several times for you to show how the LDS temple ceremonies resemble Jewish and early Christian ceremonies. My Jewish friends deny the claim.
Right, this is quite common knowledge.
I have read multiple books and articles on the topic, by Latter-day Saints (including some that are also Freemasons) and critics (including the popular “Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Temple Worship”). I am particularly fond of this review of that work, which briefly demonstrates the evolution of temple worship in the Church of Jesus Christ, including Freemasonry’s relationship to a portion of it. What actually occurred is far more nuanced than the above.
Again, if you go to LDS books to look for answers, you will get LDS answers. That just means you have no real desire for the truth.