LDS worship

[TexanKnight]

In general, most people go to the temple to participate in a specific ordinance/ritual. However, there are many areas in the hallways of the temple to sit, read scriptures (the temple has copies of our scriptures on tables in the hallways and in the foyer), pray and ponder. There is also a small chapel in most temples where one can sit, read scriptures, pray, etc. In my temple, there is a “grand hallway” which is really beautiful, bright, with beautiful artwork of scriptural scenes (and a huge painting of Jesus Christ at one end), and is near the sealing rooms. I love to go up there and sit and feel the presence of God.

Did you feel the Presence of God when you were giving blood oaths? It seems difficult to reconcile feeling God while promising to kill and be killed. How do you reconcile that?

Be Blessed.

 

[Boulder257]

The money is donated to the local congregation, and the bishop, the leader of the local congregation, can distribute/use the funds for those in need of food, clothing, shelter, etc.

Thank you for your answers. They have been quite enlightening to me and I enjoy reading your posts. You have a great way of sharing information while being charitable and I have a great appreciation for that.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Thank you for your answers. They have been quite enlightening to me and I enjoy reading your posts. You have a great way of sharing information while being charitable and I have a great appreciation for that.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

 

[TexanKnight]

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I understand why you decided to ignore my question. The temple does not seem so Christ-like when you are promising to kill and be killed. It is best to ignore those things and stick with the doing acts for dead people.

I will admit, though, the temples are absolutely beautiful. I received my endowments in the Idaho Falls Temple. I have also attended the temples in Washington DC, Chicago, Guatemala, Jordon River, SLC, Provo, and St. George. I have stood on the temple site in nauvoo (before it was rebuilt) and have been in the Kirtland Temple (it was run by the RLDS).

I have sat in the foyer of the Dallas Temple.

The reverence in the temples is akin to what exists in almost every Catholic Parish.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Mormon temples are used only for special rites and ceremonies. They don’t have regular sunday services. And to get in the door you have to have a “temple recomend”.

This is true (as mentioned, the “regular Sunday services” occur in our churches/meetinghouses), however it is also possible to go to the temple, pray/ponder/meditate/read scriptures in the halls, or in the chapel of the temple. Sometimes, if I end up arriving at the temple late (i.e. the ordinance that I wanted to participate in has already begun), I’ll go into the chapel or that “grand hallway” and just pray and feel the presence of God. However most go to the temple to participate in a specific ordinance, and then pray/read scriptures/etc before or after, in the Celestial Room (a room that symbolizes the presence of God/Heaven), etc.

 

[nevadairenaeus]

Mormons first attend a temple to receive the washings and annointing, endowment, and marriage sealing for themselves. They then return to the temple to perform the same rituals on behalf of dead individuals.

Sunday worship services are very “low church”. Talks, communion with bread and water, and various classes based on age and gender. Anyone is welcome to attend these meetings. Temple worship is more liturgical, although very different from Catholic liturgical worship which is focused on the Eucharist. Only worthy Mormons who hold a temple recommend from their bishop can go through the temple services.

I personally find Catholic worship to be much more spirtually fulfilling and Christ centered than Mormon temples ever were. What can compare to receiving the very body and blood of Christ?

 

[garyo49]

Sunday Worship
On Sundays, Latter-day Saints typically attend 3 hours of church. The first hour is known as Sacrament Meeting. Sacrament Meeting is our Communion service. The leader of our local congregations is known as a bishop, and he has 2 counselors, forming a bishopric. The bishop presides during Sacrament Meeting, and either he or one of his counselors conducts the service. Sacrament Meeting begins with any announcements (such as events occurring in the coming week), followed by an Opening Hymn. After the Opening Hymn, an Opening Prayer is given by a member of the congregation.

Following the Opening Prayer, matters of church business occur. During this time, if a member of the congregation has received a calling (such as being called as a Sunday School teacher), this is announced, the person stands, and we raise our right hands to sustain/support them in their calling. Also, other ordinances can occur during this time, such as Confirmation or Naming and Blessing Children.

After that, a Sacrament Hymn (a hymn about Communion, Christ’s sacrifice, etc) is sung. During the Sacrament Hymn, young men and/or adults that are ordained to the priesthood break the bread that will be blessed. Following the Sacrament Hymn, the bread and water (we do not use wine or grape juice) are blessed by the priesthood, and passed to the congregation to partake.

After that, a sermon, known as a talk, is given by a member of the congregation on an assigned topic. Following that, an Intermediate Hymn is sung by the congregation, and a second talk is given by a member of the congregation. Sometimes, if a Church authority is visiting, such as a Temple President, they will give a talk as well.

Following that, closing remarks are given by the bishop, a Closing Hymn is sung, and a Closing Prayer is given by a member of the congregation.

It is very simple in comparison to Mass. We don’t have candles, incense, or images inside the actual chapel (though images are found in the hallways of the church, as well as throughout our temples). Also, you remain seated throughout the Sacrament service, including during prayer.

After Sacrament Meeting, there is Sunday School, where we study the scriptures. Each year is dedicated to studying a certain scripture, such as the Old Testament (in addition to the Pearl of Great Price), New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants and Church History. While that is the main class, other classes also occur during this Second Hour, such as Temple Preparation, Marriage Preparation, Gospel Principles (for new members/converts and those learning about the Church), Mission Preparation, Family History, etc. There are also classes for children under 12, known as Primary.

After the Sunday School hour, the Final Hour takes place. During this time, we separate into groups for men (various Priesthood groups) and women (the Relief Society). During this time, a lesson is given from a manual on a Gospel topic, or on teachings from various Church leaders. In Priesthood meetings, ordinations can also take place.

And that’s generally what happens on a typical Sunday in a Latter-day Saint church. On First Sundays of the month, instead of the typical Sacrament Meeting, we have a Fast and Testimony Meeting. Members typically fast for two meals (and donate the money saved), then during church, those that feel the desire to share their testimonies with the congregation.

I think that is way more info than we wanted. Does anyone know how you can tell an LDS worship service?..You’re right. It is completely void of any Catholic element, but the inside of the chapel does have a clock. Nothing else.

 

[HonoraDominum]

Did you feel the Presence of God when you were giving blood oaths? It seems difficult to reconcile feeling God while promising to kill and be killed. How do you reconcile that?

Be Blessed.

Now, in LW’s defense, it’s entirely possible that they did not go through the temple before 1989 and did not mimic the actions of slitting ones throats and bowels if the vows are ever broken, and I know I did not learn about those actions of the temple ceremony until after I got out of the church and saw transcripts of all of the different versions of the temple ceremony.

Now, when I went through, I did get the anointing under the pancho, but from what I understand that has been phased out and now it’s a simple cross on the forehead or something.

LW also has probably never seen the images from the Duncan Masonic Ritual book that has, almost verbatim, the second half of the temple ceremony. The first half, as you know, shows God and Christ, as two separate men, creating the world. Then the second half teaches you the handshakes that you need to give at the veil when you die or you do not go to heaven. Oddly enough, these secret “handshakes” and signs are identical to ones used in Masonic rituals. Also, oddly enough, Joseph Smith flew through the Masonic ranks and became a 33rd level Mason in an unheard of time, and one month later began to perform Endowment ceremonies.

Also, again in LW’s defense, she may not be aware that of the Three Witnesses who claimed the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, all three fell away from the church. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated over differences in financing with the LDS leadership (although he was eventually rebaptized but never held an office within the church again). Martin Harris claimed multiple times that he had seen the plates “in a vision” with his “spiritual eyes”, but eventually changed his story that he had held the plates, multiple times. He wavered between supporting multiple Joseph Smith successors but finally ended up in Utah with his family. He too was excommunicated but rebaptized. David Whitmer, the third Witness was also excommunicated due to disagreements with the successors of Joseph Smith but was never rebaptized.

Compare this to the twelve apostles, 11 of whom were martyred and John who was thrown into boiling oil but survived. And all of the other martyrs who have died for Christ, martyrs who died because of a false doctrine led by men who had lost the true authority of God according to the blasphemous lies of the founders of the Mormon church.

Here’s an example of the kind of people who died for Christ, from today’s Martyrology (emphasis added):

On the morrow is kept the feast in honour of the Manifestation of the holy Archangel Michael on Mount Gargano.

May 8th anno Domini 2012 The 16th Day of Moon were born into the better life

At Milan, the holy martyr Victor. He was a Moor by nation, and had been bred up a Christian from a child. He was a soldier in the Imperial Camp when he was commanded by Maximian to sacrifice to idols, but continued manfully to own the Lord. He was first heavily cudgelled, but God shielded him from pain and then molten lead was poured upon him, but by this also he was not hurt and so at last, being beheaded, finished the glorious course of his testimony.

At Constantinople, the holy Centurion Acathius, who in the persecution under Diocletian and Maximian was denounced as a Christian by the Tribune Firmus. He was most cruelly tortured at Perinthos, on the Black Sea, by Bibianus the judge, and was lastly condemned to death at Byzantium by the Pro-Consul Flaccinus. By the Will of God his body was afterwards carried to the shore at Squillacio in Calabria, where it is honourably buried.

At Vienna, the holy Confessor Denis, Bishop [of that see.]

At Auxerre, [toward the close of the fourth century,] the holy Helladius, Bishop [of that see.]
In the country of Besancon, [in the year 1174,] the holy Peter, Bishop [of Tarantaise.]
In Ireland, [about the year 700,] the holy Bishop Wiro.

V. And elsewhere many other holy martyrs, confessors, and holy virgins.

R. Thanks be to God.

St. Victor the Moor had molten lead poured on him before he was finally beheaded. And Oliver Cowdery couldn’t even get past a financial dispute.

But I digress.

I will pray for LivingWaters, as every soul is precious to God, and those deceived by the lies of the LDS church are very much in need of our prayers. St. Teresa Benedicta, Father Augustine of the Blessed Sacrament, Pray for us and for the conversion of souls.

 

[RebeccaJ]

, but the inside of the chapel does have a clock.

And a U.S.A. flag.

 

[garyo49]

The Temple

Latter-day Saints not only have our meetinghouses/churches where we go for Sunday worship and various activities and classes throughout the week, but we also have temples, which we believe are Houses of the Lord, where His Spirit dwells and His presence can be felt. They are very beautiful, and I love going there (I’ll most likely go tomorrow). In the temple, all patrons wear white clothing.

In the temple, various sacred ordinances take place. One is baptism for the dead. In this ritual, a living person is immersed in the water for a deceased person. We believe that this then offers that deceased person the opportunity to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the next life if they didn’t have that opportunity in this life. Similar rituals also take place for Confirmation, Ordination, Sealing, etc.

Another ritual that takes place is Sealing, or Eternal Marriage. In this ordinance, the couple enters a sealing room, which also has an altar where they kneel (and typically there are large mirrors on opposite walls that look like they reflect into eternity). They hold hands and are sealed together for time and all eternity.

Finally there is the Endowment, or gift from God. Just prior to the Endowment, there is a ritual known as Washing and Anointing. During this, a patron is symbolically washed and anointed, and various blessings are pronounced on them, as they are faithful. They also put on the Garments of the Holy Priesthood, which we believe are sacred undergarments that remind the person wearing them of the covenants they have made with God. Following this begins the actual Endowment ordinance. During this ordinance, the Plan of Salvation is presented (mostly using film). We learn more about the Creation, the Fall, etc. We put on ceremonial clothing, and we enter into various covenants with God. It is very symbolic. After the Endowment, one passes through a veil into the Celestial Room, which symbolizes entering into the presence of God. In this beautiful room we quietly pray and meditate, and many believe that they receive personal revelations from God during this time.

I hope that helps.

Did this come from the mind of Joseph Smith or is it scriptural?

 

[garyo49]

And a U.S.A. flag.

I went to a funeral a few months ago and just a clock.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Did this come from the mind of Joseph Smith or is it scriptural?

Latter-day Saints believe that the restoration of the temple and its sacred rites came from God, who works through His inspired servants.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Now, in LW’s defense, it’s entirely possible that they did not go through the temple before 1989 and did not mimic the actions of slitting ones throats and bowels if the vows are ever broken, and I know I did not learn about those actions of the temple ceremony until after I got out of the church and saw transcripts of all of the different versions of the temple ceremony.

Now, when I went through, I did get the anointing under the pancho, but from what I understand that has been phased out and now it’s a simple cross on the forehead or something.

LW also has probably never seen the images from the Duncan Masonic Ritual book that has, almost verbatim, the second half of the temple ceremony. The first half, as you know, shows God and Christ, as two separate men, creating the world. Then the second half teaches you the handshakes that you need to give at the veil when you die or you do not go to heaven. Oddly enough, these secret “handshakes” and signs are identical to ones used in Masonic rituals. Also, oddly enough, Joseph Smith flew through the Masonic ranks and became a 33rd level Mason in an unheard of time, and one month later began to perform Endowment ceremonies.

Also, again in LW’s defense, she may not be aware that of the Three Witnesses who claimed the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, all three fell away from the church. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated over differences in financing with the LDS leadership (although he was eventually rebaptized but never held an office within the church again). Martin Harris claimed multiple times that he had seen the plates “in a vision” with his “spiritual eyes”, but eventually changed his story that he had held the plates, multiple times. He wavered between supporting multiple Joseph Smith successors but finally ended up in Utah with his family. He too was excommunicated but rebaptized. David Whitmer, the third Witness was also excommunicated due to disagreements with the successors of Joseph Smith but was never rebaptized.

Compare this to the twelve apostles, 11 of whom were martyred and John who was thrown into boiling oil but survived. And all of the other martyrs who have died for Christ, martyrs who died because of a false doctrine led by men who had lost the true authority of God according to the blasphemous lies of the founders of the Mormon church.

Here’s an example of the kind of people who died for Christ, from today’s Martyrology (emphasis added):

St. Victor the Moor had molten lead poured on him before he was finally beheaded. And Oliver Cowdery couldn’t even get past a financial dispute.

But I digress.

I will pray for LivingWaters, as every soul is precious to God, and those deceived by the lies of the LDS church are very much in need of our prayers. St. Teresa Benedicta, Father Augustine of the Blessed Sacrament, Pray for us and for the conversion of souls.

As I’m sure you are aware, I, as a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ, will not discuss certain specifics of the Endowment ordinance that takes place in our temples. However, I will say that I (and many other Latter-day Saints) am quite familiar with everything above that you think I may not be aware of (I’ve extensively read books, articles, forums, “exposes” etc. of our critics). Freemasonry and the Endowment ceremony is something well known and discussed in the Latter-day Saint community (indeed, I have books on the subject), and it was even brought up during my temple recommend interview, so unfortunately it really isn’t a “gotcha”. Also, again while not discussing things I have specifically covenanted not to reveal, certain aspects of the Endowment ceremony that may have been borrowed from Freemasonry are of course given a Christian emphasis and understanding.

I personally am quite fond of reading about parallels between Latter-day Saint temple rites and ancient Judeo-Christian teachings and practices, such as discussed in these links:

Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices

The Early Christian Prayer Circle

en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Freemasonry

LDS Temple Ceremony and Masonry

 

[TexanKnight]

As I’m sure you are aware, I, as a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ, will not discuss certain specifics of the Endowment ordinance that takes place in our temples. However, I will say that I (and many other Latter-day Saints) am quite familiar with everything above that you think I may not be aware of (I’ve extensively read books, articles, forums, “exposes” etc. of our critics). Freemasonry and the Endowment ceremony is something well known and discussed in the Latter-day Saint community (indeed, I have books on the subject), and it was even brought up during my temple recommend interview, so unfortunately it really isn’t a “gotcha”. Also, again while not discussing things I have specifically covenanted not to reveal, certain aspects of the Endowment ceremony that may have been borrowed from Freemasonry are of course given a Christian emphasis and understanding.

I personally am quite fond of reading about parallels between Latter-day Saint temple rites and ancient Judeo-Christian teachings and practices, such as discussed in these links:

Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices

The Early Christian Prayer Circle

en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Freemasonry

LDS Temple Ceremony and Masonry

All of which means he has dodged, again, my questions. How can you be feeling the love of God as you promise to slash each others throats and disembowel each other? Does that sound like the worship of a loving God?

 

[Marie5890]

Latter-day Saints believe that the restoration of the temple and its sacred rites came from God, who works through His inspired servants.

What goes on in the LDS temple has no resemblance to what went on in the Jewish Temple. Not even close.

What goes on in the LDS temple DOES look a great deal like what goes on in the Masonic temples…

Joseph Smith was a Mason.

Those are facts

 

[TexanKnight]

What goes on in the LDS temple has no resemblance to what went on in the Jewish Temple. Not even close.

you mean the Jews did not stand around and vow to slit each other’s throats? They did not sit aound and think of secret handshakes?

What goes on in the LDS temple DOES look a great deal like what goes on in the Masonic temples…

Almost word for word like the LDS Temple Ceremony pre 1990…

Joseph Smith was a Mason.

Those are facts

 

[Marie5890]

"What goes on in the LDS temple has no resemblance to what went on in the Jewish Temple. Not even close.

you mean the Jews did not stand around and vow to slit each other’s throats? They did not sit aound and think of secret handshakes?

What goes on in the LDS temple DOES look a great deal like what goes on in the Masonic temples…

Almost word for word like the LDS Temple Ceremony pre 1990…

Joseph Smith was a Mason.

Those are facts"

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plagiarize

pla·gia·rizedpla·gia·riz·ing

Definition of PLAGIARIZE

transitive verb
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one’s own : use (another’s production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb
: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
— pla·gia·riz·er noun

 

[LivingWaters7]

What goes on in the LDS temple has no resemblance to what went on in the Jewish Temple. Not even close.

What goes on in the LDS temple DOES look a great deal like what goes on in the Masonic temples…

Joseph Smith was a Mason.

Those are facts

The facts are that the rites that take place in Latter-day Saint temples have many similarities with the practices and teachings of ancient Jews and Christians (I provided two links, out of many, that discuss this. One of my favorite Latter-day Saint books is The Gate of Heaven: Insights on the Doctrines and Symbols of the Temple which discusses many of these parallels between ancient temple worship and that in the Latter-days. Further, it is clear that Latter-day Saints believe that the fullness of God’s priesthood was not operative in the ancient temple practices that we read about, so we do not expect an exacting copy of what they practiced to be found in the Lord’s restored temples, though again, there are obvious parallels. It is also clear that a small portion of the Endowment ordinance has a connection with Freemasonry (especially clear to those of us that have participated in Freemasonry), a fact that many Latter-day Saints are well aware of (evidenced by the various books, articles, websites (I believe I linked to one or two that discuss this above) written by Latter-day Saints on the topic, including Latter-day Saints that are also Freemasons).

 

[TexanKnight]

The facts are that the rites that take place in Latter-day Saint temples have many similarities with the practices and teachings of ancient Jews and Christians (I provided two links, out of many, that discuss this.

Please show me proof that the the Jews and Early Christians made mutual vows to cut each other’s throats and to disembowel each other. Please show me proof that they had secret handshakes.

One of my favorite Latter-day Saint books is The Gate of Heaven: Insights on the Doctrines and Symbols of the Temple which discusses many of these parallels between ancient temple worship and that in the Latter-days. Further, it is clear that Latter-day Saints believe that the fullness of God’s priesthood was not operative in the ancient temple practices that we read about, so we do not expect an exacting copy of what they practiced to be found in the Lord’s restored temples, though again, there are obvious parallels.

Yes, I expect that an LDS book is very objective about LDS practices.

It is also clear that a small portion of the Endowment ordinance has a connection with Freemasonry (especially clear to those of us that have participated in Freemasonry), a fact that many Latter-day Saints are well aware of (evidenced by the various books, articles, websites (I believe I linked to one or two that discuss this above) written by Latter-day Saints on the topic, including Latter-day Saints that are also Freemasons).

That is a very nice way to explain Joseph stealing Masonic rituals. This was his habit. he stole from other books to create the Book of Mormon.

Be Blessed, LW

 

[TexanKnight]

LW, do yourself a favor. Posting links to LDS apologetic websites to proove LDS points will never work, nor does it prove anything.

If you want to impress us with your point, for example, that the LDS temple is like the early jewish ceremony, have a jewish website acknowledge it.

Because the Jews I have spoken to (and I work with several) have stated your claim is absolutely false.