LittleSoldier,
I’m not disputing the Catholic doctrine on Purgatory
I’m disputing the belief that prayer shortens the penance.
If you read the
Catholic doctrine on purgatory, there is no mention of prayer eliminating the justly deserved penance. “God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin”
In readeing the encyclopedia, it appears prayer for the departed is a logical deducation rather than doctrine… And the practist is “consoling to manity” which is why it really happens.
Actually I found this on that website (thank you for the link):
Catholic teaching regarding prayers for the dead is bound up inseparably with the doctrine of purgatory and the more general doctrine of the communion of the saints, which is an article of the Apostle’s Creed.
The definition of the Council of Trent (Sess. XXV), “that purgatory exists, and that
the souls detained therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but especially by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar", is merely a restatement in brief of the traditional teaching which had already been embodied in more than one authoritative formula — as in the creed prescribed for converted Waldenses by Innocent III in 1210 (Denzinger, Enchiridion, n. 3 73) and more fully in the profession of faith accepted for the Greeks by Michael Palaeologus at the Second Ecumenical Council of Florence in 1439:”[We define] likewise, that if the truly penitent die in the love of God, before they have made satisfaction by worthy fruits of penance for their sins of commission and omission, their souls are purified by purgatorial pains after death; and that for relief from these pains
they are benefitted by the suffrages of the faithful in this life, that is, by Masses, prayers, and almsgiving, and by the other offices of piety usually performed by the faithful for one another according to the practice [instituta] of the Church" (ibid., n. 588).
Hence, under “suffrages” for the dead, which are defined to be legitimate and efficacious, are included not only formal supplications, but every kind of pious work that may be offered for the spiritual benefit of others, and it is in this comprehensive sense that we speak of prayers in the present article.
As is clear from this general statement, the Church does not recognize the limitation upon which even modern Protestants often insist, that prayers for the dead, while legitimate and commendable as a private practice, are to be
excluded from her public offices. The most efficacious of all prayers, in Catholic teaching, is the essentially public office, the Sacrifice of the Mass.
newadvent.org/cathen/04653a.htm
(underlining & bolding added by this poster for emphasis)
There is a lot more there but it’s a violation of forum rules to post entire sections and NewAdvent is a huge website. The Church teaches us to pray for the dead. Nobody has to pray for the dead just as nobody has to pray to Mary. But please do not call the practice “unchristian” because it is not.
And there is this:
In the communion of saints, “a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. Between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things.” In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others.** Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.**
(CCC 1475, bolding and underlining added by this poster for emphasis)
Again, I say praying for the living and spending time helping them change is much more powerful and christian behavior.
But that’s not what you said. What you said was:
“I pray for the living, and think it’s down right unchristian to spend your efforts praying for the dead, rather than trying to help the living.”
There is a huge difference between the two statements.
I’m not here to argue with you. I have presented Church teaching and now would like to return to the topic of this thread.
What an uncharitable thing to say! I’m sorry; I thought you were Catholic. I *do *believe in the necessity of the cleansing fire. The fire is God’s love. It’s the same fire that is in Heaven and in hell. Whether that fire burns one in eternal pain, purgation, or ecstasy has to do with the person who is experiencing the fire. God loves us all; even those in hell.
Big difference. I believe it is better to say it as it is. Dangerous practices are dangerous practices.