Leading a godless life might lead you to Hell, Pope warns in Fatima
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Crusaderbear
Guest
Respectfully, doesn’t that go without saying?
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egretps
Guest
I suppose some people need to hear it. And some people need the obvious spelled out. (I probably did at one time.
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Beautiful
Guest
…or reminded.I suppose some people need to hear it. And some people need the obvious spelled out. (I probably did at one time.
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Tim_D
Guest
I wonder if that includes civilly divorced Catholics who remarry outside of the Church, yet have support from within the Church hierarchy to licitly present themselves for communion?
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TK421
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You should be ashamed of yourself.
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EricF
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…and in other news, water is wet. 
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unafraid
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Respectfully, please try to exist outside of the constraints of your agenda for a little while ; try to gain some peripheral vision for Heaven’s sake. Everything can’t be framed inside your narrow prism…it can’t.
Many seem to want to reduce Pope Francis to some sort of political football. It is not just disrespectful, it is blind hostility that borders on rebellion.
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Beryllos
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That’s right. I think the OP gives us enough to discuss for one thread.
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JPUSC
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ANV
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I understood this in a non literal way.
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LeahTherese
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Above anything else, one thing of which we are all certain is the infinity of God’s loving mercy (we can’t even say where Judas Iscariot is, after all). So really the warning seems appropriately couched in nuance. It’s not the same thing as saying a ‘Godless life’ makes no difference.Godless life might lead you to Hell?
Although it does strike me that the actively Godless who arguably might need this message the most, probably don’t set much store by the idea of Hell either, so I’m not sure who the audience of this is!
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Tim_D
Guest
Respectfully in return, what are we to make when the pope speaks of the dangers of hell and a “godless life” when he himself, as the Vicar of Christ and whose duty it is to safeguard the deposit of faith, tells his flock that what has gone in the past may no longer hold and that something that was constantly proscribed as evidenced by Christ’s own words in the gospel may now be acceptable, being a step on the path to a “godly” life? Is the danger of the commission of adultery something that is framed only inside a “narrow prism?” Would you also accuse the four prominent American bishops who asked the pope himself for clarification on the subject and were rebuffed of lacking peripheral vision? Having heard many of the things that have come out of the Holy Father’s mouth since his elevation as the supreme pontiff of the Church, I prefer to err on the side of caution that what he said *isn’t *a deliberate attempt to undermine what we have consistently been taught and hold so dear., though there have been times when it would appear that I was mistaken.
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Tim_D
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I think that Christ’s own words of “better for him had he never been born” are sufficient enough to think that he is not enjoying the bliss of paradise.
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Tim_D
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Just more of the confusion sown by abandoning the “narrow prism.” When the Church has always taught that just one unrepented mortal sin is enough to separate one from God for all of eternity, we now hear that a life absent of the sincere and honest desire for God might lead one to hell. Go figure.Godless life might lead you to Hell?
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Beryllos
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Tim, looks like you own this thread:
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Tim_D|4
EricF|1
unafraid|1
ANV|1
egretps|1
LeahTherese|1
Beautiful|1
Crusaderbear|1
JPUSC|1
Beryllos|1
_Abyssinia|1
Nelka|1
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Tim_D|4
EricF|1
unafraid|1
ANV|1
egretps|1
LeahTherese|1
Beautiful|1
Crusaderbear|1
JPUSC|1
Beryllos|1
_Abyssinia|1
Nelka|1
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Tim_D
Guest
Yeah, God forbid a discussion forum should actually contain discussions.
What this forum needs is more postings about prayers for lost cats.
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commenter
Guest
It would be more accurate to say the great majority of people under, say, 60, have not been taught that Hell actually exists, as a possible destination for us. So, no it is not obvious.I suppose some people need to hear it. And some people need the obvious spelled out. (I probably did at one time.
Neither is it obvious that there is more to evil than “sins” like poverty, war, climate change, selfishness, corporations and governments. The idea that sin is something people like you and I can commit, and that sin has supernatural effects that may include our eternal salvation, are not something people need to be reminded of - they are something most people need to be told for the first time.
It is kind of a cruel irony that confession is made more available than in recent years, but most people still see no reason to go. It is still the forgotten sacrament. Telling people about God’s mercy only benefits those few who were taught why mercy is needed or relevant to them at all. Most Catholics (and Protestants) don’t have that whole context of sin, or the spiritual and corporal works of mercy; they are only familiar with Peace and Justice - confessing the sins of corporations, our great grandparents, governments, the military, etc - people other than ourselves. So they don’t go to confession, they are far less likely to come forward in tears at Altar Calls (my evangelical friends tell me).
St. JP II and Pope Benedict did in fact point out the damage done by wishy-washy catechetics and doctrineless religion programs.
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JPUSC
Guest
Global warming continues, due in part to human activity: 2015 was the warmest year on record, and 2016 will likely be warmer still. This is leading to ever more severe droughts, floods, fires and extreme weather events. Climate change is also contributing to the heart-rending refugee crisis. The world’s poor, though least responsible for climate change, are most vulnerable and already suffering its impact…
God gave us the earth “to till and to keep” (Gen 2:15) in a balanced and respectful way. To till too much, to keep too little, is to sin.
…"For human beings… to destroy the biological diversity of God’s creation; for human beings to degrade the integrity of the earth by causing changes in its climate, by stripping the earth of its natural forests or destroying its wetlands; for human beings to contaminate the earth’s waters, its land, its air, and its life – these are sins.” Further, “to commit a crime against the natural world is a sin against ourselves and a sin against God.”
In the light of what is happening to our common home, may the present Jubilee of Mercy summon the Christian faithful “to profound interior conversion” (Laudato Si’, 217), sustained particularly by the sacrament of Penance. During this Jubilee Year, let us learn to implore God’s mercy for those sins against creation that we have not hitherto acknowledged and confessed. Let us likewise commit ourselves to taking concrete steps towards ecological conversion, which requires a clear recognition of our responsibility to ourselves, our neighbours, creation and the Creator (ibid., 10 and 229)…
Turning to this bountiful and merciful Father who awaits the return of each of his children, we can acknowledge our sins against creation, the poor and future generations. “Inasmuch as we all generate small ecological damage,” we are called to acknowledge “our contribution, smaller or greater, to the disfigurement and destruction of creation.” This is the first step on the path of conversion…
After a serious examination of conscience and moved by sincere repentance, we can confess our sins against the Creator, against creation, and against our brothers and sisters. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents the confessional as the place where the truth makes us free.” We know that “God is greater than our sin,” than all our sins, including those against the environment. We confess them because we are penitent and desire to change. The merciful grace of God received in the sacrament will help us to do so…
Examining our consciences, repentance and confession to our Father who is rich in mercy lead to a firm purpose of amendment. This in turn must translate into concrete ways of thinking and acting that are more respectful of creation. For example: “avoiding the use of plastic and paper, reducing water consumption, separating refuse, cooking only what can reasonably be consumed, showing care for other living beings, using public transport or car-pooling, planting trees, turning off unnecessary lights, or any number of other practices” (Laudato Si’, 211). We must not think that these efforts are too small to improve our world. They “call forth a goodness which, albeit unseen, inevitably tends to spread” and encourage “a prophetic and contemplative lifestyle, one capable of deep enjoyment free of the obsession with consumption” (ibid., 212, 222).
In the same way, the resolve to live differently should affect our various contributions to shaping the culture and society in which we live. Indeed, “care for nature is part of a lifestyle which includes the capacity for living together and communion” (Laudato Si’, 228). Economics and politics, society and culture cannot be dominated by thinking only of the short-term and immediate financial or electoral gains. Instead, they urgently need to be redirected to the common good, which includes sustainability and care for creation…
Despite our sins and the daunting challenges before us, we never lose heart. “The Creator does not abandon us; he never forsakes his loving plan or repents of having created us… for he has united himself definitively to our earth, and his love constantly impels us to find new ways forward” (Laudato Si’, 13; 245).
MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PRAYER FOR THE CARE OF CREATION
m.vatican.va/content/francescomobile/en/messages/pont-messages/2016/documents/papa-francesco_20160901_messaggio-giornata-cura-creato.html
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