Leading cardinal says reform heralds new era for the laity and divorcees

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I guess that is the right of the Cardinal, however making such a decision is above his head.

I actually don’t have an opinion on the matter as it’s not my place, but I am interested in seeing what develops.
 
God does not change, only churches do. Jesus spoke quite clearly on this matter. Divorce only in the event of adultery and no marrying again. In fact, what God has joined together let no man put asunder.
 
lizardley said:
Top Vatican adviser Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez calls for a Congregation of the Laity during German magazine interview and breaks rank to speak frankly about his opposing opinion to the viewpoints of Cardinal-elect Archbishop Gerhard Müller (on divorced people) and Bishop Tebartz-van Elst ( hierarchy’s living standards).

Report: sconews.co.uk/news/34297/leading-cardinal-says-reform-heralds-new-era-for-the-laity/
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No careerism here.

I think it would be a good idea for cardinals to not give interviews in which they can spread divisive opinions on official teaching. I might be in the minority, but I find this far more offensive than the so-called bling-Bishop (not exonerating him, mind you).

As for the content of his opinion, this drumbeat of a “new era dawning”, is absolutely poisonous because it presupposes an “old era” that needed to be tossed out. As a lifelong Common Form Catholic who has never attended a Latin Mass in his life, I find comments such as “the Catholic Church has reached ‘the dawn of a new era’ under the leadership of Pope Francis” to be indicative of agenda-driven theology and not authentic docility to the Holy Spirit. My credentials are scant. But I don’t need to be a Traditionalist to recognize the whiff of agenda-opportunism which is merely replacing the corruption of the “old” Curia.
 
Well, I’M not a German theology professor, but even I find it exceedingly obvious in Scripture that Jesus forbade divorce and described those who divorce and then remarry as “committing adultery.”

I’d have to question how the Cardinal proposes to “reform” an explicit teaching of Jesus himself. Shall we declare Jesus to have been having a bad day that day and discount his words? Shall we revise the OT to make only 9 commandments (eliminating that pesky adultery one)? Shall we announce automatic nullity decrees for anybody who no longer wants to remain married (thus rendering the whole concept of marriage null)? Shall we declare sin irrelevant now that Christ has redeemed us (Cheap Grace)?

You hear vague notions about wanting to help remarried people from time to time, but never any specific ideas. The above are the ONLY ways I can think of that you could “welcome back” unrepentant remarried people to communion. Perhaps that’s WHY they never get specific. Everybody knows the above are non-starters and nobody has proposed any other ways to achieve their stated goal.
 
manualman said:
Well, I’M not a German theology professor, but even I find it exceedingly obvious in Scripture that Jesus forbade divorce and described those who divorce and then remarry as “committing adultery.”

I’d have to question how the Cardinal proposes to “reform” an explicit teaching of Jesus himself. Shall we declare Jesus to have been having a bad day that day and discount his words? Shall we revise the OT to make only 9 commandments (eliminating that pesky adultery one)? Shall we announce automatic nullity decrees for anybody who no longer wants to remain married (thus rendering the whole concept of marriage null)? Shall we declare sin irrelevant now that Christ has redeemed us (Cheap Grace)?

You hear vague notions about wanting to help remarried people from time to time, but never any specific ideas. The above are the ONLY ways I can think of that you could “welcome back” unrepentant remarried people to communion. Perhaps that’s WHY they never get specific. Everybody knows the above are non-starters and nobody has proposed any other ways to achieve their stated goal.
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Divorce is a complex, tragic epidemic, and it is particularly rampant among baptized Catholics. The tragedy is compounded when divorced spouses re-marry and commit adultery. It’s even further compounded when those situations become nearly impossible to extricate oneself from.

What’s more, in an incredibly ironic twist, this German movement seeks to re-define marriage as much as those actions of the political class with regard to homosexual “marriage”. Except this time, the assault on marriage will be from within the Church…

If this were to “change”, we would owe a tremendous apology to St. Thomas More, as well as Henry VIII, as well as every member of the Church of England since the time of its inception, for depriving them of the sacraments, plus all the martyrs that split created.
 
ringil said:
I guess that is the right of the Cardinal, however making such a decision is above his head.
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True, but he must be prudent in choosing his words. I’m sure many of us (not only him) sympathize with at least some of these couples, who are often in difficult situations. However, as a prelate of the Church, it behooves him to be careful, especially since he’s being portrayed as a “top Vatican advisor”. 🙂
I actually don’t have an opinion on the matter as it’s not my place, but I am interested in seeing what develops.
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Same here. I wouldn’t panic: members of the hierarchy have said and done silly things in the past (Rembert Weakland, anyone?), and the Church has still endured.
 
tm30 said:
As for the content of his opinion, this drumbeat of a “new era dawning”, is absolutely poisonous because it presupposes an “old era” that needed to be tossed out. As a lifelong Common Form Catholic who has never attended a Latin Mass in his life, I find comments such as “the Catholic Church has reached ‘the dawn of a new era’ under the leadership of Pope Francis” to be indicative of agenda-driven theology and not authentic docility to the Holy Spirit.
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True. It’s playing into the hands of the secular press, and it’s foolish. (Unless he’s being willfully misrepresented.) :rolleyes:
 
Pope Francis has shown an interest in curbing the power of the Curia, and the antagonism between its various congregations. I can’t imagine he would have any interest in adding another congregation, which might engage in conflict with the ones already existing.
 
Coatimundi said:
Pope Francis has shown an interest in curbing the power of the Curia, and the antagonism between its various congregations. I can’t imagine he would have any interest in adding another congregation, which might engage in conflict with the ones already existing.
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It seems that way. My fear is that annulment tribunals will be undermined if not eliminated entirely.
 
manualman said:
Well, I’M not a German theology professor, but even I find it exceedingly obvious in Scripture that Jesus forbade divorce and described those who divorce and then remarry as “committing adultery.”

I’d have to question how the Cardinal proposes to “reform” an explicit teaching of Jesus himself. Shall we declare Jesus to have been having a bad day that day and discount his words? Shall we revise the OT to make only 9 commandments (eliminating that pesky adultery one)? Shall we announce automatic nullity decrees for anybody who no longer wants to remain married (thus rendering the whole concept of marriage null)? Shall we declare sin irrelevant now that Christ has redeemed us (Cheap Grace)?

You hear vague notions about wanting to help remarried people from time to time, but never any specific ideas. The above are the ONLY ways I can think of that you could “welcome back” unrepentant remarried people to communion. Perhaps that’s WHY they never get specific. Everybody knows the above are non-starters and nobody has proposed any other ways to achieve their stated goal.
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Would he be able to play the “those who hear you, hear me” card in order to reform teaching?
 
ProVobis said:
It seems that way. My fear is that annulment tribunals will be undermined if not eliminated entirely.
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I am not sure what to expect out of the synod which will be held this coming October. With a 150 bishops, I imagine a variety of opinions will be expressed. Presumably, their views will be supplemented by the results of the survey which was distributed worldwide last year. That survey covered a range of topics, including topics include marriage preparation, the bond of marriage, human sexuality, cohabitation, divorce and remarriage, family prayer, and catechesis. I am guessing that whatever document results from the synod will be a comprehensive vision of the family.
 
After reading that article and the direct quotes from the Cardinal, it seems to me that the headline is misleading in the extreme, and bears little relation to what he actually said.

It appears that what he was getting at was along the lines of examining closely what constitutes a valid marriage. We’ll see what… if anything… comes of it.
 
dixieagle said:
After reading that article and the direct quotes from the Cardinal, it seems to me that the headline is misleading in the extreme, and bears little relation to what he actually said.

It appears that what he was getting at was along the lines of examining closely what constitutes a valid marriage. We’ll see what… if anything… comes of it.
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Exactly. My first thought when reading this article was “Where is the link to the full text of the interview?” There isn’t much in the way of direct quotations and I would like to see the context before assuming he meant what the headline implies that he meant.
 
This is Fr. Z’s translation of what the Cardinal said:

“He’s a German – yes, I have to say it – and above all he’s a professor, a German theology professor. In his mentality there is only true or false. But I say: The world, my brother, the world is not like that. You should be a little flexible, if you hear other voices, so as not to only hear them and say, no, here is the wall. ”
 
Coatimundi said:
I am guessing that whatever document results from the synod will be a comprehensive vision of the family.
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I’m sure the fact that they are even discussing this is making a lot nervous while getting others excited.
 
I think they should look at the annulment process since it doesn’t seem fair the way it’s done now.

I was married outside of the church in a civil ceremony. We were both baptised Christians (Catholic and Russian Orthodox). Since were were not married in a church my annulment was about $50 and I only waited a week for it to be done. I didn’t have to get in touch with my ex for it either.

From what I heard the real difficulty is if you are converting from a Protestant church. The process can take years and hundreds of dollars not to mention the opening of old wounds. Getting in touch with an ex can be difficult, especially if there was abuse or disputes between the spouses. Most people will simply marry outside of the church and most likely stop attending or find another church. It is a problem.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
It’d be simply tragic if fewer decrees of nullity were pronounced.
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Not the real point. The tribunals are a way for people to work with the Church, regardless of what the outcome will be. A outright lifting of the “ban” against remarrieds receiving communion may not really bring people closer to Christ or increase the value of a sacramental marriage.
 
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