C
Cathoholic
Guest
While putting forth some pretty rough motives against this Priest.
What you say you say, is pretty different than what you posted against this fine Priest.
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Leading Catholic Exorcist Sees Signs of Demonic Oppression and Possession in Unhinged American Left
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What you say you say, is pretty different than what you posted against this fine Priest.
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Annie
Guest
For me, all these questions would be answered in a discussion about what Fr R said, which you do not even want to have.
You are not seeking the truth, which is even more important than most favorable interpretations.
In fact, your entire point about MFIs is not workable, because it is simply whatever someone else can come up with; it is a continual imposition of one’s own unfounded interpretation onto someone’s actions.
Fir example, you refused to answer my question about why you thought saying someone was demonically influenced was an unfavorable interpretation. Thus, we could not discuss the nature of demonic influence, and you could not learn anything about what Fr R was saying, which ultimately means you ended up missing his point, because you were so stuck on the issue of MFI.
Fr R is warning people. Don’t you want to know what that warning is about? Do you not care that he actually may be right, and people are being demonically influenced, and what could be done about that?
O
OneSheep
Guest
Really? Where?
Actually, we are seeking the truth. Did you not bring forth what the people of BLM want? That was excellent.
Well, if it is not workable, then CCC2478 is for nought, which is not the case! And yes, all interpretations are in part unfounded!
All interpretations are less than an actual content of the mind and experiences of the other, so let’s give it our most favorable! Very applicable, very charitable, it is how we want people to look at our own actions, right? (please answer that!)Here are my comments:
Here, answer the question, Annie. Pretend you are not Catholic.
Answer those questions, Annie. Please try to imagine being a non-catholic and hearing the warning concerning your own attempts at doing something righteous.
Hey, I like your dedication and respect for authority, but the Magisterium is the real source of authority in the Church, guided by the Spirit.
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Annie
Guest
And I re-re-reiterate that motives do not protect against ending up in a bad spiritual place: demonically influenced OR mortal sin OR something else.
And you did agree to that proposition. So I do not understand why you keep bringing it back up.
Insane as it may sound, demons, who are way, way, way more intelligent than we are, tend not to tempt good people with bad things, as I explained before.
They will not tempt a faithful husband with a addictive woman but with a co-worker in need of ongoing help and support, and the adultery starts very slowly. But in the end, if they do not see what is happening, they may well fall into adultery despite the purity of their original intentions and motives.
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C
Cathoholic
Guest
Great point Annie. Especially with intrinsic evils like calling upon demons.
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Annie
Guest
We are supposed to study the teachings of the Church in context, in light of Tradition, and not in isolated units.
Here is what St Thomas Aquinas has to say:
You have strongly implied Fr Ripperger has committed a rash judgement.
He is in a position to make this type of comment about others, because of his knowledge and experience, some of which he may not be permitted to reveal, and all of which would be impossible for him to cover in the time he had.
You are not in a position to say this about Fr R. Any understanding of English reveals you did that in your first comment, and you have not done anything other than to try to hide what you said through tangential explanations. You have not even said, yeah, you know what, I see that my words gave that impression; I didn’t mean that.
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Annie
Guest
Any other answer I give would be irrelevant. An honest and sincere person, when presented with a serious criticism, would consider it, and all the background behind it.
And that is where you are failing, because you lack knowledge of what Fr R knows and what he means.
Thus, you do not understand that demons are real, that they are working in our world to bring us down that, how they operate, or any of what Fr Ripperger meant by what he said.
This is why you are wrong on this point, because he was not speaking to those who are throwing Molotov cocktails into buildings, etc., he is speaking to others, people who are more likely to understand what he is saying.
The fact that someone might be influenced by demons does not mean they are intentionally going out and finding a Satanic group to work with or conjuring up demons to sell their souls to them.
No, it means that demons are attacking them. The demons are coming after them and using their wiles to capture them.
Remember the guy who did LSD and ended up complaining to the doctor about having hallucinations?
If I were that person, I would not accuse the doctor of rash judgement, because he has an adequate reason for saying I was being affected by LSD.
I would instead say something like, I didn’t take any drugs–how can I be hallucinating and testing positive for a drug I never took?
And then we could discuss possible sources.
But if I just accuse him of rash judgement, then where will I be? Nowhere. I will refuse his help, and I will not find out how I ingested the LSD, and it may continue to happen because of my ignorance.
So the appropriate response to Fr Ripperger’s comments is to first understand them, to say, what do you mean?
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silentwitness
Guest
Hello @Annie,
i do not know a lot about demons but i agree with you that where people do the most wrong is when they think, or have been convinced in a group, that they are doing right and are in the right.
Whether that means they are tempted by demons or accepting the rejection of God by the devil or following our own sinful natures i do not know.
Take Hitler’s National socialists. Many people following them were no doubt people with good intentions and people believing they were building a better society through justice. But the concepts gradually drew people away from the path of God to pure evil.
I think the first trick Hitler’s socialists, or any socialists play is to convince people that they are a victim and that other people, an identity group, owes them something as a point of justice.
The next step is to introduce politics with the state promising to put right this supposed injustice.
Many people forget that Germany at the time of Hitler was a country who had suffered defeat during the first world war, lost much of its home territory to other nations and was paying large reparations to the allied powers for war damages.
It was not difficult for Hitler and co. to present themselves as undeserving victims and the Jews as rich capitalist international bankers sucking Germany dry and amassing personal wealth inside Germany at the expense of the German worker.
The presented solution was a socialist Germany with a ‘fairer’ distribution of wealth’ by government control of large sectors of the economy. Pensions were increased, social programs were greatly increased, living off capital was criticised, government control of health and education increased markedly and the extolling of government control was the virtue. For a while things looked good. People had money in their pockets, there were social safety nets, there was increased spending on the young and the old, infrastructure was being rebuilt and there was full employment.
People, decent people, thought that Hitler’s National Socialist Workers Party with its emphasis on big government and fairer income distribution was the way forward and the right (moral) path to follow.
But then the realities of such policies came to fruition. The money started running out and the international stock markets started to go south. Hitler’s socialists started cracking down on the identified blame group of the rich unpatriotic Jews. This was and is pure evil. But if people are wedded to the ‘fair big state’ idea when things go wrong it is seen as fair and just to take this groups wealth and to ignore their complaints.
It seems that the idea easily spreads that justice is all about taxing these people for the common good and anyone disagreeing is just a greedy capitalist out for their own personal gain and not the common good, which gets redefined to the power of the state and obeying the state victimhood narratives.
i do not know a lot about demons but i agree with you that where people do the most wrong is when they think, or have been convinced in a group, that they are doing right and are in the right.
Whether that means they are tempted by demons or accepting the rejection of God by the devil or following our own sinful natures i do not know.
Take Hitler’s National socialists. Many people following them were no doubt people with good intentions and people believing they were building a better society through justice. But the concepts gradually drew people away from the path of God to pure evil.
I think the first trick Hitler’s socialists, or any socialists play is to convince people that they are a victim and that other people, an identity group, owes them something as a point of justice.
The next step is to introduce politics with the state promising to put right this supposed injustice.
Many people forget that Germany at the time of Hitler was a country who had suffered defeat during the first world war, lost much of its home territory to other nations and was paying large reparations to the allied powers for war damages.
It was not difficult for Hitler and co. to present themselves as undeserving victims and the Jews as rich capitalist international bankers sucking Germany dry and amassing personal wealth inside Germany at the expense of the German worker.
The presented solution was a socialist Germany with a ‘fairer’ distribution of wealth’ by government control of large sectors of the economy. Pensions were increased, social programs were greatly increased, living off capital was criticised, government control of health and education increased markedly and the extolling of government control was the virtue. For a while things looked good. People had money in their pockets, there were social safety nets, there was increased spending on the young and the old, infrastructure was being rebuilt and there was full employment.
People, decent people, thought that Hitler’s National Socialist Workers Party with its emphasis on big government and fairer income distribution was the way forward and the right (moral) path to follow.
But then the realities of such policies came to fruition. The money started running out and the international stock markets started to go south. Hitler’s socialists started cracking down on the identified blame group of the rich unpatriotic Jews. This was and is pure evil. But if people are wedded to the ‘fair big state’ idea when things go wrong it is seen as fair and just to take this groups wealth and to ignore their complaints.
It seems that the idea easily spreads that justice is all about taxing these people for the common good and anyone disagreeing is just a greedy capitalist out for their own personal gain and not the common good, which gets redefined to the power of the state and obeying the state victimhood narratives.
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silentwitness
Guest
Every Leftist organisation carries with it this danger of people believing they are right to demand things off others, especially identity groups. This action is seen as a moral right to the point that first tolerates violence and then justifies it for those professing this Leftist faith and willing to take to the streets.
That is why i believe Leftism is a rival faith and incompatible with Christianity.
The same formula played out across eastern Europe, China, North Korea, Cuba, Cambodia et, etc.
You can see the same ideology in BLM.
Many good people believe they are supporting moral goodness right up to and including political violence and the call for confiscation of others wealth for the common good.
Where Leftism has been successful in the west and conceals its true nature is that it convinces large groups of people that they, through their identity, are the oppressor. Men. White people. Heterosexuals. Christians. Colonists. People with money. etc. No doubt this is playing to the Christian idea of self deprecation for the common good. This is where i mentioned earlier Leftism perverting Christianity and trying to use a perversion of those principles against itself.
The new religion is about a fairer society that can only be created by government taking wealth of certain identity groups that really don’t deserve their wealth because of past (largely fabricated) historical narratives.
This is what many people, decent people accept as Leftist secular ‘goodness’ and which is the only ‘goodness’ that should bind us together. I think it is right to criticise it on the grounds of its historical record and the actual Christian principles of good and evil.
That is why i believe Leftism is a rival faith and incompatible with Christianity.
The same formula played out across eastern Europe, China, North Korea, Cuba, Cambodia et, etc.
You can see the same ideology in BLM.
Many good people believe they are supporting moral goodness right up to and including political violence and the call for confiscation of others wealth for the common good.
Where Leftism has been successful in the west and conceals its true nature is that it convinces large groups of people that they, through their identity, are the oppressor. Men. White people. Heterosexuals. Christians. Colonists. People with money. etc. No doubt this is playing to the Christian idea of self deprecation for the common good. This is where i mentioned earlier Leftism perverting Christianity and trying to use a perversion of those principles against itself.
The new religion is about a fairer society that can only be created by government taking wealth of certain identity groups that really don’t deserve their wealth because of past (largely fabricated) historical narratives.
This is what many people, decent people accept as Leftist secular ‘goodness’ and which is the only ‘goodness’ that should bind us together. I think it is right to criticise it on the grounds of its historical record and the actual Christian principles of good and evil.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
…which absolutely no Democratic politician is doing.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That is odd. Pope Francis has good words to say about BLM. One would think he would know if something is incompatible with Christianity.
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Annie
Guest
I do not think there are many who believe sufficiently to call upon demons. This does not mean that people cannot unknowingly be influenced by demons.
I am not saying that any particular person is being so influenced, but I think that demons are at least happy about bad things, if not aiding situations to go in that direction.
I am not saying that any particular person is being so influenced, but I think that demons are at least happy about bad things, if not aiding situations to go in that direction.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
You are changing my premise (again) Leaf.
The discussion wasn’t about “Democrat politicians” per se.
Read the thread.
The discussion concerned BLM leadership who admit to calling on spirits.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
By the thread title it is the “American Left”. I guess that doesn’t include Democrats then. Good to know that our Democratic politicians are not possessed by demonic spirits.LeafByNiggle:
You are changing my premise (again) Leaf.
The discussion wasn’t about “Democrat politicians” per se.
In the first place there is no such thing as “BLM leadership”. BLM has no leaders. Secondly, it is quite a stretch to say that those that claim to be leaders have called upon spirits.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
I think you need to go back and re-read the thread. Follow out the links. Etc.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Already have.LeafByNiggle:
I think you need to go back and re-read the thread. Follow out the links. Etc.
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StudentMI
Guest
So now Fr Ripperger is a proponent of deep state conspiracy theories?
R
RootKitWarrior
Guest
That is why Church and State should not mingle.
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
And why can’t that be an option? What else can you call the defiling of what is holy?
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