Learn more about Pope Francis rather than criticize

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After I got over my initial surprise that a Jesuit was actually elected pope, I was delighted to realize that part of his institute’s charism is teaching and evangelizing. I’m looking forward to a lot of the same coming from Pope Francis in the months and years to follow, and most of us in the Church could use it!

I wish my now-deceased Jesuit spiritual director was still with us to enjoy the experience, but I’m sure he is doing so from heaven.
 
…In the USA, when we identify ourselves we rarely say, “I’m an American.” We say, “I’m Italian” Why? Because my grandparents came from Italy…
I feel this is mostly true but not exactly. I rarely hear people of English descent making this distinction.
 
Both of those schools, along with the Dominican school share something in common. They would place the pastoral need over the rubric. In this case, one would look at the fact that one is celebrating the liturgy for a very special group that is not the typical Sunday Catholic crowd. One has to ask the purpose of one’s being there. As Pope Francis said that his purpose for being there was because his heart told him that that’s where the pope needed to be and that the same spirit told him that the pope needed to do whatever it took, within reason, to bring the love of Christ to all the youngsters, not just the males and not just the Catholics. Jesuits, Franciscans and Dominicans, maybe Salesians as well, would concur that the tone, the message and those rituals that are not really part of the mass can and should adapt to the population.
Thank you so much for respondng to this question and my other one. I wish I had more time and patience to read through all of your posts (and that is not a put down on you but on me). I am trying really hard to keep an open mind about things and if anyone has been praying for me, thank you. Please keep me and my husband in your prayers (probably more my husband than I).

Happy Easter to everyone!
 
In the USA and Canada people identify themselves as Irish, Italian, French, etc, even when their families have been here for several generations. In South America, someone life Pope Francis does not say, “I’m Italian.” He would say, “I’m Argentinian.” If necessary, he would add that his father came from Italy. Actually, his mother was born in Argentina.

Can. 705 A religious raised to the episcopate remains a member of his institute

From Canon Law. When he became a bishop, he remained a member of his order. The Bishop of Rome is no more of a bishop than any other bishop. He is the Pontiff by default. However, the Petrine Ministry is not part of Holy Orders. It can only be assumed by one who is a bishop, because the successor of Peter must be the bishop of Rome.

However, the Bishop of Rome, like any other bishop, remains a member of his order.

The difference between him and another Jesuit has to do with governance. A bishop is not under the authority of the religious superior. This avoids conflicts of interest. He is still obedient to the founder and the mission and vision of his order. The same canon gives him the freedom to set aside his order’s vision, in the even that there is a conflict wit his ministry as bishop. However, any good lawyer will tell you that the flexibility was built in only for areas of conflict. It’s not to become the norm that a bishop suddenly drops all semblance of his religious life. Because not everything in his religious life is in conflict with his role as bishop. Such a radical separation from his order is unnecessary.

The Code of 1917 said that when a religious became a bishop he ceased to be a religious. The Church granted an automatic dispensation from vows. That was abrogated in 1983, because it did not work. Two things happened. Many religious decline the bishopric. They felt strongly about leaving their order. The second thing that happened is that those who did accept and became bishops often felt very isolated. They had little in common with the diocesan clergy whom they led, because they were formed in two different worlds. They no longer had the right to “hang out” with their brothers. They were no longer brothers. The 1983 code chose the better option. Let the bishop be a religious and participate in as much of his order’s life as possible, even if it’s just in it life or prayer and its way of thinking and seeing the Church.
Oh Br. JR - you rock! Oh wait - I’m taking too much pride in being right and her wrong. Dang… sometimes I wish I didn’t have this pesky conscience thing going on…

Thanks so much for finding that information for us. That is so helpful!
 
I am re-reading a book that I have had for quite some time about a Jesuit. The name of the book is The Cheerful Ascetic and it is the biography of Fr. Adolphe Petit. I was amazed at the training a man has to go through before he makes Final Profession in the Society of Jesus, and I am wondering if anyone here knows if it is still the same.
Yes. It is still the same.
I think it said that before they take four years of theology, they take two years of philosophy just to train the men to be clear thinkers. At the end of thirteen years of intense study and much work, they are sent back to the novitiate for a “tertian year”. It said in the book that the reason for this was in case their university studies had dulled their spiritual focus - the tertian year was to remind them why they entered the Jesuits and put the focus back where it belonged - not on books or much learning, but on God.
At the novitiate, the 1st-year Jesuit novice undergoes a 30-day silent retreat based on the Spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius. That’s 30 days of nothing but silence and consant prayer (but with a few off-hours for some physical activity), with nobody to speak with but the spiritual director. It’s been known to drive quite a few novices nuts literally. It’s like a spiritual boot camp.

Like the novitiate, the 30-day retreat or Spiritual Exercises is the centerpiece of tertianship. But it’s not right after ordination. It’s usually 5 years or more after ordination or studies.

More on tertianship: thinkjesuit.org/tertianship-final-vows/

You might also want to read the blog of Fr. Ray Guiao, SJ to get a glimpse of a life of a tertian.
 
Oh Br. JR - you rock! Oh wait - I’m taking too much pride in being right and her wrong. Dang… sometimes I wish I didn’t have this pesky conscience thing going on…

Thanks so much for finding that information for us. That is so helpful!
Nah, I don’t really rock. I’m just a superior. We get to learn all of this neat little trivia, just in case one of your own is elected bishop. :yup:

Your friend may be thinking with the code of 1917 and not realize that the code of 1983 revised the Church’s position on the matter. I’ve run into a number of people right here who don’t know that this code has been revised. Most lay people would not read the part of canon law that speaks about bishops and consecrate life. People use the section on the sacraments more.

In any event, the tomb was empty – Rejoice and celebrate – Alleluia
 
Nah, I don’t really rock. I’m just a superior. We get to learn all of this neat little trivia, just in case one of your own is elected bishop. :yup:

Your friend may be thinking with the code of 1917 and not realize that the code of 1983 revised the Church’s position on the matter. I’ve run into a number of people right here who don’t know that this code has been revised. Most lay people would not read the part of canon law that speaks about bishops and consecrate life. People use the section on the sacraments more.

In any event, the tomb was empty – Rejoice and celebrate – Alleluia
Dear Brother JR,

Thank you so very much for your thoughtful and informative posts in this thread and others. Your own Franciscan charism shines through them.

Pace e bene!
 
I have to ask this question, because it’s been bugging me for weeks. Well, only since the election of Pope Francis. When I sit and listen to priests, brothers, sisters, theologians and apologists speak about this pope, the one thing that comes up in everyone’s mind is that he’s a consecrated religious. He is a Jesuit who is heavily influenced by the Franciscan school of ministry. We don’t speak of him as a Pope without speaking about his roots in the religious life. Because to do so is to take him out of context. When you take someone out of context, you’re not going to understand them and you’re going to miss a lot of the richness that’s there.

God gives to the Church many gifts and one of the greatest gifts that he has given to the Church is the religious life. In Vita Consecrata the Church states that even though the consecrated life is not part of the hierarchy of the Church, it is essential to the life of the Church. It is so essential that is is born in Christ’s life itself. Christ was the first consecrated religious. He lived in community with his Apostles. He lived according to the Evangelical Counsels. He was a servant to all. He was a contemplative. He was a mystic and he was a common laborer. The mission given to him by his Father was his Rule of Life. That’s really beautiful.

However, when people discuss Pope Francis on these forums and other forums on the Internet, they talk about him as if they were speaking about Pope Benedict, John Paul II, John XXIII and so forth. None of those popes were consecrated religious. In fact the popes whom we have had who came to us from the religious life were very revolutionary. Let’s take Clement V. The Benedictine who legalized abdication. Pius V, the Dominican who unified the Roman Rite. Clement XIV, the Franciscan who suppressed the Jesuits, because his order asked him to do so. Those are just some of the religious. The point is that these men brought rather interesting qualities, thoughts, behaviors, customs, changes and gifts to the papacy.

We look at Pope Francis and I don’t see many people on these forums

a. Remember that he’s a religious

b. Remember that he is a Jesuit trained in Ignatian thought and Ignatian pedegogy; therefore, when he speaks he’s going to use that system.

c. Remember the he is a follower of the Franciscan school of ministry, which is very emphatic that voluntary poverty is a means to salvation and necessary if one is to do pastoral care among the voiceless.

d. Remember that he is a consecrated religious who is disciplined in asceticism and trained to live without many things that most people take for granted. When presented with these extras, the immediate reaction of the religious is a question. “Do I really need this?”

e. Remember that every religious, even if he’s a pope, has a duty to his vows. They do not cease to exist.

Why do we take Pope Francis out of context? We do we not factor in that he’s a religious whenever we analyze what he does or say?
Is a man a Pope first or a Religious first? I guess it really depends on that precedence of the two for a person in office. If the person is considered first and foremost Pope (which I think is the case), then the possible set of actions will first be filtered through the office. If not, the other way around.

The reason I say that a Pope is first and foremost Pope is because even a religious is waived from their obligation to obey his/her superior. That would only seem true if Pope comes first and religious second.
 
Is a man a Pope first or a Religious first? I guess it really depends on that precedence of the two for a person in office. If the person is considered first and foremost Pope (which I think is the case), then the possible set of actions will first be filtered through the office. If not, the other way around.

The reason I say that a Pope is first and foremost Pope is because even a religious is waived from their obligation to obey his/her superior. That would only seem true if Pope comes first and religious second.
It’s neither. It’s both. The papacy is a ministry. It’s how you serve the Church.

The consecrated life is how you live the Gospel and how you project it to others.

You can certainly serve the Church without having to change how you live and project the Gospel.

Take St. Pius V. He was a Dominican Friar. Everything that he did was colored by this. For example, he never wore regal robes. He always wore the Dominican habit. That’s when the custom of popes wearing off-white with a shoulder cape began. The next pope and thereon forward,honored his memory by creating a cassock that mimics the Dominican tunic.

St. Celestine V was a Benedictine monk.

Nicholas IV was a Franciscan who never wore the tiara or the robes. He walked barefoot and in his habit.

Pius, Celestine, Nicholas and the many other popes who have been religious always brought the charism of their order to the papacy and projected it onto the universal Church. Pope Leo XIII was a Secular Franciscan. He wrote a letter to the bishops of the world suggesting to them that they promote the Secular Franciscan Order among the faithful, because it was a sure path to holiness.

John Paul II was an OCDS. He certainly promoted the contemplative life.

The one cannot take priority over the other, because they’re not comparable. If that were possible, it would be impossible for priests to become religious. We know that they do it all the time. About 40% of our priests are religious. Their ministry is guided by the charism of their life.

Two popes will do the same thing, but approach it very differently, because of how they live the Gospel. This pope uses an interesting combination. He uses the Exercises to discern, which is very Jesuit. He mimics St. Francis to execute, which is very Franciscan.

There is a continuity in doctrine, morals and law, but there is the newness of the religious tradition. We have never had a Jesuit influence at that level.

Many people don’t know how much the religious popes influenced the papacy and the Church at large.

Where did the idea of putting the tabernacle front and center come from?

Where did the Stations of the Cross come from?

Where did the veneration of the cross on Good Friday come from?

Where did the Christmas creche come from?

Where did the passion play at Palm Sunday mass come from or the Nativity Pageant at Christmas mass?

They were all creations of St. Francis of Assisi that Nicholas IV introduced to the universal Church.

Where did the Gregorian chant come from?

It was a Benedictine tradition that a Benedictine pope introduced to the universal Church.

How about the Tridentine form?

It was a simpler form used by Franciscans. The Council of Trent adopted it as the mass for the Church. But it was not until a Dominican pope came along and added some Dominican gestures and movements that we got the final form that we had until Pope Pius XII.

Avoidance and resistance of this man’s religious vocation is like pushing a boulder uphill. Unless he’s a very unfaithful Jesuit or there is a major conflict of interest, there is no reason why he can’t live and function as a Jesuit. We just have to learn to appreciate it. The is much to be learned from the Jesuits’ approach to theology, spirituality, ecclessiology and other things.
 
Is a man a Pope first or a Religious first? I guess it really depends on that precedence of the two for a person in office. If the person is considered first and foremost Pope (which I think is the case), then the possible set of actions will first be filtered through the office. If not, the other way around.

The reason I say that a Pope is first and foremost Pope is because even a religious is waived from their obligation to obey his/her superior. That would only seem true if Pope comes first and religious second.
I think Br. JR posted the relevant canon somewhere else; while a religious elevated to a bishop is dispensed from the obligation of obeying the superior of his community, he continues to be a member of that community. Moreover he is not released from his vows of poverty, etc. By the time a religious gets to be the Holy Father’s age, expecting him to behave differently from his vows just isn’t going to happen. It’s such an integral part of his personality, and something he’s worked at all his life at perfecting, that it would be very difficult to change that. I attended the Easter Vigil with a bunch of Benedictine monks last night, there was a small reception and collation afterwards. I was talking to my spiritual director, (in his mid-70s) and he understood this clearly when we were discussing Francis, he said “he cannot live any differently than his vow of poverty”.

Some of the monks in this community are in their 80s and 90s BTW. It was an inspiration to watch one monk in particular, who walks with a walker, is 91 and yet managed to stand through all the parts we’re supposed to stand at when people 30 years his junior were having to sit. I’m 54 and was quite tired last night and wanted so badly to sit but every time I saw Br. Anselm standing I couldn’t bring myself to sit. Br. Anselm has been a monk for almost as long as the Holy Father is old (70 years!), but the point is that their way of life is so inseparable from their heart, personality and soul now, it’s too much to expect the Holy Father to just suddenly embrace a regal lifestyle.
 
I think Br. JR posted the relevant canon somewhere else; while a religious elevated to a bishop is dispensed from the obligation of obeying the superior of his community, he continues to be a member of that community. Moreover he is not released from his vows of poverty, etc. By the time a religious gets to be the Holy Father’s age, expecting him to behave differently from his vows just isn’t going to happen. It’s such an integral part of his personality, and something he’s worked at all his life at perfecting, that it would be very difficult to change that. I attended the Easter Vigil with a bunch of Benedictine monks last night, there was a small reception and collation afterwards. I was talking to my spiritual director, (in his mid-70s) and he understood this clearly when we were discussing Francis, he said “he cannot live any differently than his vow of poverty”.

Some of the monks in this community are in their 80s and 90s BTW. It was an inspiration to watch one monk in particular, who walks with a walker, is 91 and yet managed to stand through all the parts we’re supposed to stand at when people 30 years his junior were having to sit. I’m 54 and was quite tired last night and wanted so badly to sit but every time I saw Br. Anselm standing I couldn’t bring myself to sit. Br. Anselm has been a monk for almost as long as the Holy Father is old (70 years!), but the point is that their way of life is so inseparable from their heart, personality and soul now, it’s too much to expect the Holy Father to just suddenly embrace a regal lifestyle.
But is not the Pope above the law? This would mean even above the law of the religious community, yes? Maybe he can introduce a law that says all vows to the community are null after becoming Pope?
 
It’s neither. It’s both. The papacy is a ministry. It’s how you serve the Church.

The consecrated life is how you live the Gospel and how you project it to others.

You can certainly serve the Church without having to change how you live and project the Gospel.

Take St. Pius V. He was a Dominican Friar. Everything that he did was colored by this. For example, he never wore regal robes. He always wore the Dominican habit. That’s when the custom of popes wearing off-white with a shoulder cape began. The next pope and thereon forward,honored his memory by creating a cassock that mimics the Dominican tunic.

St. Celestine V was a Benedictine monk.

Nicholas IV was a Franciscan who never wore the tiara or the robes. He walked barefoot and in his habit.

Pius, Celestine, Nicholas and the many other popes who have been religious always brought the charism of their order to the papacy and projected it onto the universal Church. Pope Leo XIII was a Secular Franciscan. He wrote a letter to the bishops of the world suggesting to them that they promote the Secular Franciscan Order among the faithful, because it was a sure path to holiness.

John Paul II was an OCDS. He certainly promoted the contemplative life.

The one cannot take priority over the other, because they’re not comparable. If that were possible, it would be impossible for priests to become religious. We know that they do it all the time. About 40% of our priests are religious. Their ministry is guided by the charism of their life.

Two popes will do the same thing, but approach it very differently, because of how they live the Gospel. This pope uses an interesting combination. He uses the Exercises to discern, which is very Jesuit. He mimics St. Francis to execute, which is very Franciscan.

There is a continuity in doctrine, morals and law, but there is the newness of the religious tradition. We have never had a Jesuit influence at that level.

Many people don’t know how much the religious popes influenced the papacy and the Church at large.

Where did the idea of putting the tabernacle front and center come from?

Where did the Stations of the Cross come from?

Where did the veneration of the cross on Good Friday come from?

Where did the Christmas creche come from?

Where did the passion play at Palm Sunday mass come from or the Nativity Pageant at Christmas mass?

They were all creations of St. Francis of Assisi that Nicholas IV introduced to the universal Church.

Where did the Gregorian chant come from?

It was a Benedictine tradition that a Benedictine pope introduced to the universal Church.

How about the Tridentine form?

It was a simpler form used by Franciscans. The Council of Trent adopted it as the mass for the Church. But it was not until a Dominican pope came along and added some Dominican gestures and movements that we got the final form that we had until Pope Pius XII.

Avoidance and resistance of this man’s religious vocation is like pushing a boulder uphill. Unless he’s a very unfaithful Jesuit or there is a major conflict of interest, there is no reason why he can’t live and function as a Jesuit. We just have to learn to appreciate it. The is much to be learned from the Jesuits’ approach to theology, spirituality, ecclessiology and other things.
I don’t know. It feels like the less I know about what this Pope is doing, the more peace of mind I have. Every thing just seems to cause so much confusion, problems and lend itself well for those who want to promote unorthodox thinking. I am sick and tired of reading news in the secular papers of how the Pope is definitely going to change all the “problems” in the church.

Now you may say, that sort of changes will never be introduced. BUT, there are lots of people hoping for those changes. These actions makes them more hopeful and encourage them to pursue their agendas in the Church. It’s like adding gasoline to the fire. The Pope might not light the match himself but the fire will rage. I am tired of hearing my parish priest tell the congregation that this Pope will change all traditions (with a beaming smile) and that everything will be “different”.

For you its probably ok because all you meet are probably your fellow Franciscan buddies who have a good formation. But give a little thought to the lay people who have to put up with this. It used to be that at the end of the day, I could look up to the Pope and still have comfort that I am doing the right thing. Now I have to second guess myself everyday whether anything even matters and re-convince myself that it does.

So I am not sure you appreciate the magnitude of the problem here for a lay person who sees these breaks from traditions. You always make it sound like we are fussing over things when tradition for us lay people is like your spirituality as a Franciscan. Just as you would be upset if a Franciscan superior decided to enforce Dominican spirituality on you (why? Because it is not traditional), so are faithful lay people upset when the man at the helm is doing something completely different from how things used to be.
 
I so are faithful lay people upset when the man at the helm is doing something completely different from how things used to be.
Eufrosnia,sometimes it feels it depends on what direction,from what perspective, you were looking at to say “how it used to be”.I do not see the man at the helm,as you call him,doing anything outside our Church or Gospel,nor anything different from the one he was before he was elected Pope in a deep sense.
At times,in my heart,it feels like billions are dying in poverty around the world,and the question is “What am I going to wear for their funeral.?What´s the proper dress code?Who should be invited?”
It gets to hurt.
 
But is not the Pope above the law? This would mean even above the law of the religious community, yes? Maybe he can introduce a law that says all vows to the community are null after becoming Pope?
I think you confuse law and vow. A vow is more than a law; its a way of attachment to the mystical body of Christ. It is not dissimilar from a marriage vow. It is a solemn and irrevocable promise. If Francis were to use his legal authority to dispense himself from his vow (apart from the administrative dispensation from obeying his superior which kicked in when he first became bishop), he would risk sowing serious disarray among the religious orders. Br. JR could chime in here but I doubt any previous regular pope ever released himself from his vows.

If the pope dispensed himself it would be not much different than ruling that divorce was legal in the Church to accommodate some special perceived need. I’m sure it’s not a part of his authority that he can take lightly or that he even feels he has the power to change.
 
But is not the Pope above the law? This would mean even above the law of the religious community, yes? Maybe he can introduce a law that says all vows to the community are null after becoming Pope?
But why would he want to do that? Why would he want to be released from his vows? A vow is a promise made freely to God. Do you really want him to make a law himself so that he can release himself from a vow made before God?

Anyway how do his vows prevent him from carrying out his duties as Pope? Does his wish to avoid unnecessary luxuries prevent him from carrying out God’s work on Earth?
 
I think you confuse law and vow. A vow is more than a law; its a way of attachment to the mystical body of Christ. It is not dissimilar from a marriage vow. It is a solemn and irrevocable promise. If Francis were to use his legal authority to dispense himself from his vow (apart from the administrative dispensation from obeying his superior which kicked in when he first became bishop), he would risk sowing serious disarray among the religious orders. Br. JR could chime in here but I doubt any previous regular pope ever released himself from his vows.

If the pope dispensed himself it would be not much different than ruling that divorce was legal in the Church to accommodate some special perceived need. I’m sure it’s not a part of his authority that he can take lightly or that he even feels he has the power to change.
No one can dispense himself from a covenant, not even a pope. Vows made in religious life and in marriage are covenant vows. God does not repeal his covenants; therefore, man cannot do so either.

The Church simply restructures how the covenant is lived, so that it reduces any conflict of interest or anything that would be inappropriate for either the religious or the bishop.

As you say, this has already happened when he became a bishop. When he becomes the Bishop of Rome, what has changed in his vows? Does he live the Gospel differently in Rome from how he lived it in Buenos Aires?

Maybe he is around different people and maybe the situations are different, but his evangelical values remain the same.
 
No one can dispense himself from a covenant, not even a pope. Vows made in religious life and in marriage are covenant vows. God does not repeal his covenants; therefore, man cannot do so either.

The Church simply restructures how the covenant is lived, so that it reduces any conflict of interest or anything that would be inappropriate for either the religious or the bishop.

As you say, this has already happened when he became a bishop. When he becomes the Bishop of Rome, what has changed in his vows? Does he live the Gospel differently in Rome from how he lived it in Buenos Aires?

Maybe he is around different people and maybe the situations are different, but his evangelical values remain the same.
Ok this does make sense.
 
But why would he want to do that? Why would he want to be released from his vows? A vow is a promise made freely to God. Do you really want him to make a law himself so that he can release himself from a vow made before God?

Anyway how do his vows prevent him from carrying out his duties as Pope? Does his wish to avoid unnecessary luxuries prevent him from carrying out God’s work on Earth?
Well I already have an answer to this so this is a meaningless question. But just for fun, I would reply to you that Pope must get rid of the vows perhaps so that he can have the luxury of more security personnel. 😃
 
Ok this does make sense.
I seriously doubt Pope Francis would have accepted this position if he had to give up his Jesuit vows. Being a Jesuit was his life calling and at 76 years old it is very much of who he is.
 
Eufrosnia, I have to add this. I don’t hang out with my Franciscan buddies as much as you think. We all have things to do and it usually involves the laity.

This takes me to my next point. We’re not insensitive to the laity. However, we’re very practical. It is much easier for the faithful to adapt to one pope than one pope to adapt to 1.2 billion faithful.

Finally, I have not seen or heard any of the lay faithful as filled with angst as I’m hearing you. They seem to be taking this with good spirits. The Easter Catholics are even more interesting. They’re very happy that they have a pope, but he’s not Coptic, Chaldean, Melkite, etc, He is not a focal point for them. They look at their bishop and their local priests.
 
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