Learn more about Pope Francis rather than criticize

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I have found that people really don’t want to be hit over the head with a Bible.

People want to know why life stinks in spite of the fact that they have done everything society told them they should. They want to know why their husband left or why their kid is doing drugs, and they keep hearing Christians talk about joy and peace but then they get whacked over the head with a Bible by Baptists and told they are going to hell or they get smacked with a Catechism by Catholics and told they hare going to hell.

If we can demonstrate peace and joy in our own lives then it will attract people like moths to a flame, and they will ask how we do it. That’s when it is time to talk, to say, “I have the sacraments.”

Where I live people are usually like, “Sacraments? What’s that?”

-Tim-
I agree with you. When people understand the sacraments, they love them. Even when they have a brief exposure, they love them.

When my daughter got married, the photographer was a young woman who was not Catholic. She’s excellent at her craft. That’s why she was hired.

At the end of the day, she told my daughter that she had witnessed many weddings of many faiths. She had never seen a Catholic wedding. This was her first time. She pointed out that she was moved by the solemnity of the rite, the reverence during the mass, by the many symbols, by the prayers of the congregation and priest and by the words in the marriage rite itself.

In simple language, she was encountering the sacraments of Eucharist and Matrimony for the first time. She did not understand all of the symbols, gestures or words, but she was captivated by the whole of it. She felt that there was something very special about it that she had never seen before.

I must humbly mention that I planned the liturgy. The whole thing was by the book. It was the Ordinary Form. But when the sacraments are celebrated as they should be, they speak for themselves. I believe that it helps when the people involved understand the sacraments.

In the case of this wedding, the bride and groom had asked me to plan their wedding mass, because they wanted it to be liturgically correct. To quote my daughter, “I don’t care if the reception and the dress go to pots. But the mass and the wedding rite must be the centerpiece of the day. Nothing can be more important than that.”

What this young lady saw was two people who understood the Eucharist and Matrimony surrounded by family and friends who also understood or at least respected it. I think this caused her to tune in to more than just what picture to take at what moment. She actually tuned in to what was happening around her and she knew that it was something mystical.

The sacraments are powerful. If we can introduce them to people, not by lectures, but by how we live them, they speak for themselves.
 
I think we’re pretty far lost if “mentioning sin” is being equated to “hellfire and brinstone”. Sin is real, Christ spoke about sin, our great saints spoke about sin.

Its true that some people go too far in attacking others for their sins, but we have to be aware of sin, we have to acknowledge it (whether its in ourselves or others), we have to try to do something about it. And yes, often the best thing to do about it is to have patience, love, forgiveness etc But these virtues are abused when they are used to ignore sin.

The concepts most central to our faith, like salvation, forgiveness, love, free will, morality are all meaningless without the concept of sin.

And for the record, I think Pope Francis has been strong on “mentioning sin” and evil, and Im glad he has been.
Thank you. It amazes me how saying we should be mentioning sin is somehow translated into hellfire and brimstone. Why does sin=extremes? I’m not advocating for Bible thumping…just some basic catechesis.

And yes, I have seen Pope Francis speaking on sin (however, so far, it seems as if his toughest homilies are the words he says at daily Mass vs Sunday mass).

I was referring to what happens in average parishes across America…which is definitely lacking wrt sin.
 
I think what some people object to is that notion that certain individuals and even groups have that one must always be on the lookout for the sins of another and then hit them between the eyes with the moral law.
Or maybe those same individuals would like to hear it for THEMSELVES because it challenges THEM. Or maybe those same individuals think this is what the Church as a whole needs to do to better catechise a whole generation who just doesn’t know the Catholic Faith.

Why is it that whenever there is criticism it must mean that these folks are only concerned with showing others how sinful they are? It really does get old.

I will agree with the point that a balance is needed. The problem is right now (in parishes) I hear a lot about mercy and not a lot about why we need that mercy and reasons why we need to go to confession. Although I am happy to hear it, when I do hear about the Sacrament of Reconciliation, it is vague.
 
Thank you. It amazes me how saying we should be mentioning sin is somehow translated into hellfire and brimstone. Why does sin=extremes? I’m not advocating for Bible thumping…just some basic catechesis.

And yes, I have seen Pope Francis speaking on sin (however, so far, it seems as if his toughest homilies are the words he says at daily Mass vs Sunday mass).

I was referring to what happens in average parishes across America…which is definitely lacking wrt sin.
When I was relatively more steeped in sin than I am now, the priest didn’t have to mention sin for me to realize I was living in it. It was part of me. It caused me to live fearfully , to hang my head in shame, to avert my eyes from people, to live a joyless life. I dismissed other people telling me I was living in sin. I would think something like “thanks for jumping on the pile, now go bend over backwards and look at your own problems”, or something to that effect.

A sermon that helped change my life was on Divine Mercy Sunday of 2002. Til that time I had tried all kinds of my own methods to overcome the misery I was living. Battling with sin is a tremendous life consuming (literally) effort. It had never ocurred to me to shut up, give up, and listen to that voice that says “I love you, and there is nothing else you need.” Those are powerful life changing words that God speaks to us.
The priest was preaching God’s mercy in a powerful way that day. He was really inspired and his voice was raising in pitch with the Holy Spirit as he spoke. The priest was talking about the 3 ways to receive mercy revealed to Sr Faustina. I can vividly remember the priests’ words to this day, saying that the third and perhaps most easily dismissed way to receive mercy is to “get on your knees and ask for it”.
Really? Just ask for it? Huh? What about living in shame, don’t I deserve that in light of my sin? Don’t I deserve to be reminded of punishment and and the inescapability of it? What about hand to hand combat with Satan? What if I just try a little harder to be “good”?
That’s all a deception. Sin only makes sense in light of surrendering it to the love of God. That surrender to God’s love slowly began to bear fruit in my life.
 
When I was relatively more steeped in sin than I am now, the priest didn’t have to mention sin for me to realize I was living in it. It was part of me. It caused me to live fearfully , to hang my head in shame, to avert my eyes from people, to live a joyless life. I dismissed other people telling me I was living in sin. I would think something like “thanks for jumping on the pile, now go bend over backwards and look at your own problems”, or something to that effect.

A sermon that helped change my life was on Divine Mercy Sunday of 2002. Til that time I had tried all kinds of my own methods to overcome the misery I was living. Battling with sin is a tremendous life consuming (literally) effort. It had never ocurred to me to shut up, give up, and listen to that voice that says “I love you, and there is nothing else you need.” Those are powerful life changing words that God speaks to us.
The priest was preaching God’s mercy in a powerful way that day. He was really inspired and his voice was raising in pitch with the Holy Spirit as he spoke. The priest was talking about the 3 ways to receive mercy revealed to Sr Faustina. I can vividly remember the priests’ words to this day, saying that the third and perhaps most easily dismissed way to receive mercy is to “get on your knees and ask for it”.
Really? Just ask for it? Huh? What about living in shame, don’t I deserve that in light of my sin? Don’t I deserve to be reminded of punishment and and the inescapability of it? What about hand to hand combat with Satan? What if I just try a little harder to be “good”?
That’s all a deception. Sin only makes sense in light of surrendering it to the love of God. That surrender to God’s love slowly began to bear fruit in my life.
[SIGN]Great post![/SIGN]
 
When I was relatively more steeped in sin than I am now, the priest didn’t have to mention sin for me to realize I was living in it. It was part of me. It caused me to live fearfully , to hang my head in shame, to avert my eyes from people, to live a joyless life. I dismissed other people telling me I was living in sin. I would think something like “thanks for jumping on the pile, now go bend over backwards and look at your own problems”, or something to that effect.

A sermon that helped change my life was on Divine Mercy Sunday of 2002. Til that time I had tried all kinds of my own methods to overcome the misery I was living. Battling with sin is a tremendous life consuming (literally) effort. It had never ocurred to me to shut up, give up, and listen to that voice that says “I love you, and there is nothing else you need.” Those are powerful life changing words that God speaks to us.
The priest was preaching God’s mercy in a powerful way that day. He was really inspired and his voice was raising in pitch with the Holy Spirit as he spoke. The priest was talking about the 3 ways to receive mercy revealed to Sr Faustina. I can vividly remember the priests’ words to this day, saying that the third and perhaps most easily dismissed way to receive mercy is to “get on your knees and ask for it”.
Really? Just ask for it? Huh? What about living in shame, don’t I deserve that in light of my sin? Don’t I deserve to be reminded of punishment and and the inescapability of it? What about hand to hand combat with Satan? What if I just try a little harder to be “good”?
That’s all a deception. Sin only makes sense in light of surrendering it to the love of God. That surrender to God’s love slowly began to bear fruit in my life.
Sermons about mercy are also sermons about sin, either outright or implied. I am used to hearing both topics preached on, or neither.
 
Sermons about mercy are also sermons about sin, either outright or implied. I am used to hearing both topics preached on, or neither.
Agreed, the full truth needs to be presented.
It’s a matter of having a spiritually profitable focus. Even now, I tend to point to God and say how wonderful he is, cause look how bad my sin is that he forgives. That’s true he does forgive it, but God is good because God is good, He is not good because I am a sinner.

Pope Francis (name removed by moderator)sires me to go out and serve despite all these distractions.
 
I will agree with the point that a balance is needed. The problem is right now (in parishes) I hear a lot about mercy and not a lot about why we need that mercy and reasons why we need to go to confession. Although I am happy to hear it, when I do hear about the Sacrament of Reconciliation, it is vague.
This. No one is trying to advocate for fire and brimstone, and yes of course we need balance, but right now the balance in most parishes is shifted dramatically towards the “let’s never mention sin” side, so to obtain balance we’d need to move the other way.

If we actually want balance, we would need to move towards addressing sin, confession etc more becasue right now it’s skewed the other way (in my opinion).

For instance, when I went through RCIA, it was at a very “don’t mention sin” parrish. I had a lot of knowledge of Catholicism on my own from beforehand and knew what I was getting into so it didn’t bother me. But if I hadn’t, this parrish would have been very off putting for me, because it would have felt like I got very little real content.
 
I would like to hear about hellfire and brimstone. It has never happened in my entire life though.
 
Here’s a thought, we have the cath all phrase “fire and brimstone” to refer to very stern teaching. What is the cath all phrase for very non-stern teaching?
 
Or maybe those same individuals would like to hear it for THEMSELVES because it challenges THEM. Or maybe those same individuals think this is what the Church as a whole needs to do to better catechise a whole generation who just doesn’t know the Catholic Faith.

Why is it that whenever there is criticism it must mean that these folks are only concerned with showing others how sinful they are? It really does get old.
When one has been in ministry as long as I have, one gets to hear this line all too often and 9/10 times it’s always about the other person, including the clergy and religious. There is a tendency among some people to want to dictate what the Church should teach and to whom. Unfortunately, this tendency is often based more on arrogance than on charity. When one listens to these folks one hears the message loud and clear, “I know what needs to be done, better than the pastor, the bishop, the catechist, the pope, etc.”

Then I get the one percent who comes and says, “Brother, I struggle with this or that sin,” or “Brother, what can I do to help fight this or that sinful situation.” Those are genuinely charitable concerns. They’re not approaching telling anyone what to do. They’re admitting their sinfulness and they’re asking what they can do to eliminate sin, not telling the Church or others what they should be doing.

I always find this latter group very inspiring. Sometimes, they say something that I had not stopped to see in me or in the world around me. I end up admiring them more than leading them. These folks genuinely want to confront sin. They’re not commanding anyone else to do this or that.

One of the traits that made St. Francis so beloved by Catholics and non-Catholics alike is that he never tells anyone what they need to preach. He simply atones for his sins and teaches others to do the same. He faces sin head on, without ever mentioning what the Church should or should not do. He was so strict on this that in our statutes, if you dare make such a criticism, a superior can legitimately ask for your excommunication. Like Francis, who was like Christ, we teach others how to atone for sin at the same time that we do atonement. But we never say, "The Church does not . . . "

When I say that people who call for fire and brimstone often need to work on their life first, it’s because of years and years of experience.
When I was relatively more steeped in sin than I am now, the priest didn’t have to mention sin for me to realize I was living in it. It was part of me. It caused me to live fearfully , to hang my head in shame, to avert my eyes from people, to live a joyless life. I dismissed other people telling me I was living in sin. I would think something like “thanks for jumping on the pile, now go bend over backwards and look at your own problems”, or something to that effect.

A sermon that helped change my life was on Divine Mercy Sunday of 2002. Til that time I had tried all kinds of my own methods to overcome the misery I was living. Battling with sin is a tremendous life consuming (literally) effort. It had never ocurred to me to shut up, give up, and listen to that voice that says “I love you, and there is nothing else you need.” Those are powerful life changing words that God speaks to us.
The priest was preaching God’s mercy in a powerful way that day. He was really inspired and his voice was raising in pitch with the Holy Spirit as he spoke. The priest was talking about the 3 ways to receive mercy revealed to Sr Faustina. I can vividly remember the priests’ words to this day, saying that the third and perhaps most easily dismissed way to receive mercy is to “get on your knees and ask for it”.
Really? Just ask for it? Huh? What about living in shame, don’t I deserve that in light of my sin? Don’t I deserve to be reminded of punishment and and the inescapability of it? What about hand to hand combat with Satan? What if I just try a little harder to be “good”?
That’s all a deception. Sin only makes sense in light of surrendering it to the love of God. That surrender to God’s love slowly began to bear fruit in my life.
Awesome. 👍
I would like to hear about hellfire and brimstone. It has never happened in my entire life though.
I think it’s more of a Protestant thing. We have great preachers like St. Leonard of Port Maurice who preached about sin and salvation. But he did not threaten people with hell. His sermons always ended by stating the fact that God waits for us to come to him. It is we who must turn away from sin and toward God, because God has always been looking in our direction. He always ended by stressing the need to love God because he loves us.

St. Francis would preach, “Love is not loved.” Again, there is not that threat of hell and fire. But a stirring of the conscience.

Many people attribute their conversion to Bl. John Paul. His message was “Be not afraid of Christ.”

St. Francis de Sales takes the same approach. He leads people to God through a devout life, not through fear.

I often wonder if Catholics may be using a Protestant expression that does not fit into Catholicism. We have never used “hell fire and brimstone”. Our greatest preacher, St. Paul, corrects faults, offers counsel and teaches about God’s love and one’s duty and privilege to respond to that love. Pointing out to sins is a very small component of Paul’s preaching. Most of his preaching is catechetical.
 
That’s all a deception. Sin only makes sense in light of surrendering it to the love of God. That surrender to God’s love slowly began to bear fruit in my life.
Beautiful. I would only add that we do need to at least try.
“Has no one condemned you? Then neither do I condemn you. Go out and sin no more.”
 
“Then neither do I condemn you. Go out and sin no more.”
Some of us have a hard time saying the first part, some of us have a hard time saying the second part, but Christ said both. I guess that should tell us something 🙂
 
I would like to hear about hellfire and brimstone. It has never happened in my entire life though.
That what the Redemptorists were for - preaching hellfire and damnation - they were jokingly called the Redempt Terrorists;)

I was at a parish mission in england back in the 60’s when the Redemptorist priest took his (very)large crucifix from his habit and threw it down the aisle where it slid and clattered into pews, causing the parishioners to shrink away from it as it sped down the aisle, and he thundered in a strong Irish accent, “and that’s what your sins do to Our Crucified Lord!”

Utter and complete silence and abject fear from the congregation.
 
Here’s a thought, we have the cath all phrase “fire and brimstone” to refer to very stern teaching. What is the cath all phrase for very non-stern teaching?
Catholicism Lite? Just kidding (although maybe not in some parishes…)
 
That what the Redemptorists were for - preaching hellfire and damnation - they were jokingly called the Redempt Terrorists;)

I was at a parish mission in england back in the 60’s when the Redemptorist priest took his (very)large crucifix from his habit and threw it down the aisle where it slid and clattered into pews, causing the parishioners to shrink away from it as it sped down the aisle, and he thundered in a strong Irish accent, “and that’s what your sins do to Our Crucified Lord!”

Utter and complete silence and abject fear from the congregation.
Ah! The good old days of the 60s! 😉
 
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