Learn the ahadith to better understand Islam

[rikkk1958]

Oh, there is one HUGE, BIG difference - it applied for people to do those things to ALL people - not just ones like them. In islam - all of that kumbaya stuff only applies to muslims. That is why the death, enslavement, stealing from and lying to, enslavement, etc of non-muslims still goes on to this day.

Perhaps you are right r_not but I am only pointing our the hadiths that are part of our scriptures not the violent ones. Muslims are very proud of what muhammed had in store for them and understandably it is because they can call it their own. They cannot accept that Isaac is the favored one and because Ishmael as an outcast is their own man. It would really take guts for muslims to appreciate what Christians believed and this is why they will always defend their faith no matter what. Some would say because God ordered so, and Allah has every reason to do no matter what it takes just to make the kafirs turn to islam. The problem is they did not know that the old ways had passed away and the new dawn had come 2,000 years ago and that is 1400 years before the birth of muhammed. Muhammed had not understood the reasons behind from what he heard about the violent nature of the old testament and God’s plan for all people and why Jesus came to fulfill them and begin the process of saving us from our inequities. He never understood that the violent ways had passed away and the prophesies will come into fruition with the coming of a Messiah so that the Love of God will be brought down through Jesus Christ. In contrast to what Jesus taught, muhammed thought that violence are still essential to force the kafirs to believe. However, an average person can judge that muhammed’s works were flawed and even his life was not even a life that muslims can be proud of.

 

[Booklover]

This is a reminder that the aim of this thread is to enhance one’s knowledge and understanding of Islam through learning the ahadith collection of Imam An-Nawawi… and judging from the comments posted so far, I think that this objective is being achieved, all praise belongs to God.

Spoken like a true Islamic robot! You make statements that have absolutely no basis on reality. If these posts of yours are “enhancing one’s knowledge and understanding of Islam” it’s not in the way you mean. They’re making us see only too clearly that Islam is for Muslims only and even so, Muslims aren’t even good to other Muslims since they don’t hesitate to blow each other up at the slightest provocation!

Vickie

 

[dolphinlove]

This is a reminder that the aim of this thread is to enhance one’s knowledge and understanding of Islam through learning the ahadith collection of Imam An-Nawawi… and judging from the comments posted so far, I think that this objective is being achieved, all praise belongs to God.

have you even read any of the other posts besides your own?
i think the hunger from not eating during the day is getting to your head hammy!

 

[hamba2han]

… The second commandment which is to love your neighbor is relative to everything good deeds you will do towards others. There is no point for a detailed morals that your hadith can do to surpass this commandment. Do this commandment and you will be fine.

The Second Commandment you say??

Let us indeed examine what the Second Commandment says:

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, … Exodus 20:4&5

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

Since it is so explicitly stated in the Second Commandment, do Christians believe that anyone who willingly chooses to bow down to statues and graven images is commiting a major sin?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

… Do this commandment and you will be fine.

I certainly concur with you that faithfully adhering to this Second Commandment would most definitely be a tremendous beginning to bring someone very much closer to his or her Creator.

 

[planten]

Perhaps you are right r_not but I am only pointing our the hadiths that are part of our scriptures not the violent ones. Muslims are very proud of what muhammed had in store for them and understandably it is because they can call it their own. They cannot accept that Isaac is the favored one and because Ishmael as an outcast is their own man. It would really take guts for muslims to appreciate what Christians believed and this is why they will always defend their faith no matter what. Some would say because God ordered so, and Allah has every reason to do no matter what it takes just to make the kafirs turn to islam. The problem is they did not know that the old ways had passed away and the new dawn had come 2,000 years ago and that is 1400 years before the birth of muhammed. Muhammed had not understood the reasons behind from what he heard about the violent nature of the old testament and God’s plan for all people and why Jesus came to fulfill them and begin the process of saving us from our inequities. He never understood that the violent ways had passed away and the prophesies will come into fruition with the coming of a Messiah so that the Love of God will be brought down through Jesus Christ. In contrast to what Jesus taught, muhammed thought that violence are still essential to force the kafirs to believe. However, an average person can judge that muhammed’s works were flawed and even his life was not even a life that muslims can be proud of.

Niether Issac is the favored one nor is he the first born of Abraham nor the only son nor the beloved son of old age.

Sir, my dear ones, Sarah was barren. She was hopeless, gave in and surrendered to Hagar. Hagar was the proud lady who brought life in the lifeless house. Ishmael was the first promised one. Issac the second promised one. Sarah was not a selfish prejudiced lady as she is being projected in the bible. She was very sensible and loving person. She was wise too to let Abraham have access to a seond wife.

That helped her too. Ishmael was born out of Hagar due to good work of sarah. When Abraham sacrificed (tried to) Ishmael on the alter, Allah was all the more pleased with Abraham and prmised to give him another son (Issac).

Issac was not even born at the time of the sacrifice. Moreover, Abraham was told before birth of Issac that Issac will grow to be a prophet of God. Due to that God would never ask Abraham to sacrifice the son Issac. That would be a major contradiction.

And he did not tell Abraham to sacrifice Issac. The sacrifice took place near (now called) Makkah. And it was Ishmael the first born who was offered.

Bible has haphazardly just put the name of Issac in place of Ishmael without considering all matters. Ishmael was only a child when he was offered.

There was no problem of any inheritance too. The land was vast. Spiritual inheritance was also not limited. The method of grant of spiritual inheritance (blessing) of the Jews OT is very well shown in the case of Jacob telling a lie to his father Issac and snatching the right of the first born Esau. It is all a made up story and same is the case of stories about Sarah, hagar, Ishmael and Issac.

Interesting thing, as per bible. Abraham takes his son Issac for sacrifice. Issac asks about the lamb. Abraham does not tell him anything and says, it will be provided. But see in the Quran chapter 37, verse 100-102, Ishmael does not ask anything and Abraham takes his opinion ( and consent) about his sacrifice. And Ishmael happily agrees tobe sacrificed.

There is no name of Ishamel or Issac about the offered son.

 

[hamba2han]

Hadith # 37

Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, related from his Lord (glorified and exalted be He):

"Verily Allah has recorded the good deeds and the evil deeds." Then he clarified that: "Whosoever intends to do a good deed but does not do it, Allah records it with Himself as a complete good deed; but if he intends it and does it, Allah records it with Himself as ten good deeds, up to seven hundred times, or more than that. But if he intends to do an evil deed and does not do it, Allah records it with Himself as a complete good deed; but if he intends it and does it, Allah records it down as one single evil deed."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]
Each in his Sahih have thus related it in these words:

"So look! My brother, may Allah help us, and take note of how great is the kindness of Allah - may He be exalted! Reflect on this, how that His saying “with Himself” points to His great care with regard to it, and His saying “complete” is for emphasis, not to point to the intensity of His care with regard to it. With regard to the evil deed which one intended but then abandoned, He says: “Allah records it with Himself as a complete good deed”, emphasising this by the word “complete” (kamilah); whereas if he performs it, He records it down as “one evil deed”, where by the word “one” He emphasises its being made little of, since He does not emphasise it here by the word “complete”. So to Allah be praise and grace. Glory be to Him! Our praises to Him we cannot count. With Allah is success."

=======================================

This hadith is considered as a Hadith Qudsi even though the text of the hadith does not show that clearly or explicitly. The hadith with this text is a clarification from the part of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, about the way of recording deeds. There are other versions of this hadith that have been recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim in the same form of Hadith Qudsi and in a very clear manner.

In one version of this hadith, Allah has said: “If My servant considers doing a sin, do not record it against him. If he acts upon it, record it as one sin. If he considers doing a good deed and does not do it, record it as one good deed, and if he actually does it, record it as 10 good deeds.” [Recorded by Imam Muslim]

The hadith mentioned four types of deeds:

1. Doing good deeds - the result will be a multiplication of rewards.
2. Doing evil acts - this will be recorded as one sin for one sin.
3. The intention of doing good deeds - this will be recorded even if it is not done as one deed. ‘Intention’ here means that we have a great eagerness and a very strong determination to do a certain deed - and not merely thoughts of doing it.
4. The intention of doing a bad deed or committing a sin without actually doing it

In cases where there are many versions of the hadith, scholars compare the text of the hadith. In one version that is narrated by Abu Hurairah, Allah says: “He gave up committing the sin for the cause and sake of Allah.” Ibn Rajab says this implies that the interpretation of this portion of hadith is that the one who has the intention to do the evil act and is able to do it, refrained from doing so for the sake and fear of Allah. Ibn Rajab says this person will be rewarded for that because refraining from doing an evil act with a good intention is really a good deed by itself.

In one version of the hadith, Allah says that for the one who commits a sin, Allah might record it merely as one sin, or He might omit the sin because of repentance by the sinner, or because of the sinner performing good deeds - as mentioned in Hadith 18: "Fear Allah wherever you may be; follow up an evil deed with a good one which will wipe (the former) out, and behave good-naturedly towards people."

In another version of this hadith, it says that the one whose bad deeds outweigh the good deeds is a failure. Why? After all this mercy and grace from Allah where Allah multiplies good deeds up to 700 times, if a person still persists on disobedience and commits evil acts and in the end his bad deeds outweighs his good ones, then he is truly a big sinner and transgressor. He has no one to blame but himself.

The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to his Companions: “Whom do you consider as a bankrupt?” They said: “The one who does not have a dinar or derham (money).” The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: “The real bankrupt is the one who comes with mountains of good deeds but he also comes with many bad deeds that are related to attacking and harming the people.” In this case, the bad deeds are not easily omitted because they are related to the rights of human beings. This person may wrong others by slander, backbiting, killing, etc. As a result, his good deeds will be taken from him in the Hereafter as a matter of just. In addition to that, the Prophet, peace be upon him, says part of the bad deeds of the people whom he has wronged will be added to his record and the result would be that he will be thrown into the Hellfire.

Muslims need to reflect on this hadith and not to wrong, belittle or fail other Muslims or non-Muslims in the same way. They should also be kind to animals as the Prophet, peace be upon him, said that a woman will enter Hellfire because of her mistreatment of a cat. The Prophet, peace be upon him, also mentions about a woman who is very pious and did good deeds but she annoyed and bothered her neighbours - she too is in the Hellfire.

Muslims need to be careful when it comes to dealing with other people. Unless they receive forgiveness from others, they will be held responsible for wrongdoings towards others.

 

[rikkk1958]

Planten: Yours is what we call defensive reasoning when you are already out of reasons the reasoning will not be a reason at all because the facts will never be facts. Some muslims believed that the Holy Bible is the true word of God and must not be contradicted because after all most of the writings in the quran can be found in the Bible although twisted by muhammed at times.

The second commandment I was talking about was the two greatest commandments Jesus was talking about but hamba2han preferred the longer one found in the old testaments. I suggest he reads the Gospels too. Although in a longer version, all of the rest of commandments relates to the two greatest commandments.

 

[rikkk1958]

hamba2han, catholics do not worship idols and graven image. If you force to give meaning to the statues and images for idols then you are completely wrong. How do you know from that picture if the Pope intentionally bowed only to the statue of Mary? For you and other heretics, yes these heretics will interpret it as shown but we catholics bow down in respect of the Virgin Mary and not to the statue because we consider the statue as an illustration that can be like in our imagination how Mary would look like. Deep in our hearts and mind when we bow down to a statue, it is not considering the statue as idol but the spirit that reflects out of that illustration reminding us how Mary could look like. The bottom line is the statues and images you find in the Catholic Churches are not considered idols by the Catholics and are not graven in their own understanding. Only those who are not catholics can give “idol” meaning on them. Most books especially children’s books have illustrations to completely depict what are being told in the story. If there was a photograph during muhammed’s time and is shown today, would muslims not revere them? Are muslims not bowing down towards mecca where the tomb of muhammed is? You are bowing down out of your respect to muhammed. Muhammed is not God.

 

[hamba2han]

hamba2han, catholics do not worship idols and graven image. If you force to give meaning to the statues and images for idols then you are completely wrong. How do you know from that picture if the Pope intentionally bowed only to the statue of Mary? For you and other heretics, yes these heretics will interpret it as shown but we catholics bow down in respect of the Virgin Mary and not to the statue because we consider the statue as an illustration that can be like in our imagination how Mary would look like. Deep in our hearts and mind when we bow down to a statue, it is not considering the statue as idol but the spirit that reflects out of that illustration reminding us how Mary could look like. The bottom line is the statues and images you find in the Catholic Churches are not considered idols by the Catholics and are not graven in their own understanding. Only those who are not catholics can give “idol” meaning on them. Most books especially children’s books have illustrations to completely depict what are being told in the story. If there was a photograph during muhammed’s time and is shown today, would muslims not revere them? Are muslims not bowing down towards mecca where the tomb of muhammed is? You are bowing down out of your respect to muhammed. Muhammed is not God.

The Second Commandment does not warn believers not to worship statues and graven images because as this would so very clearly violate the belief of monotheism, it is really not necessary to state something which is so obvious.

The Second Commandment instead warns believers not to bow down to these statues and graven images because of the extreme negative connotations this action of bowing down to these objects and images would have on their belief of monotheism.

 

[planten]

Planten: Yours is what we call defensive reasoning when you are already out of reasons the reasoning will not be a reason at all because the facts will never be facts. Some muslims believed that the Holy Bible is the true word of God and must not be contradicted because after all most of the writings in the quran can be found in the Bible although twisted by muhammed at times.

**Yes, the Quran had to disagree with the corrupted words of the bible. Your elders had done that and Muhammad was told (revealed) all the good things and mistakes of the bible.

But you are rather late comer. The christian friends here have admitted that Jesus did not give them any book. He gave a church. So they have done away with the book you call bible. So bible is no more from Jesus. How bad !!! Quran admits that Jesus was taught the torah and Injeel by God. And he was aided (Strengthened) by the holy spirit. That is all there in the Quran. How true !!!**

 

[rikkk1958]

Since many Catholics sometimes bow or kneel in front of statues of Jesus and the saints, anti-Catholics confuse the legitimate veneration of a sacred image with the sin of idolatry.

Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it.
Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images.

 

[Lance]

I would never want any ‘lessons’ from the Koran. It’s evil. If it is not of Christ, it is not of anything.

Very nicely stated. Why would any Christian care what is in the Koran or the ahadith. I don’t want to understand Islam any more than I want to understand Hindus, Buddhists or Sikhis.

 

[trustme80]

Yes, the Quran had to disagree with the corrupted words of the bible. Your elders had done that and Muhammad was told (revealed) all the good things and mistakes of the bible.

maybe the quran is wrong, it’s wrong about a lot of things

**
But you are rather late comer. The christian friends here have admitted that Jesus did not give them any book. He gave a church. So they have done away with the book you call bible. So bible is no more from Jesus. How bad !!! Quran admits that Jesus was taught the torah and Injeel by God. And he was aided (Strengthened) by the holy spirit. That is all there in the Quran. How true !!!**

planten, are you trying to decieve “the late comer” ?
be honest planten

 

[rikkk1958]

**Yes, the Quran had to disagree with the corrupted words of the bible. Your elders had done that and Muhammad was told (revealed) all the good things and mistakes of the bible.

But you are rather late comer. The christian friends here have admitted that Jesus did not give them any book. He gave a church. So they have done away with the book you call bible. So bible is no more from Jesus. How bad !!! Quran admits that Jesus was taught the torah and Injeel by God. And he was aided (Strengthened) by the holy spirit. That is all there in the Quran. How true !!!**

How many times were you told about the gospels of Jesus? Have you read the Gospels? The writers of the Gospels testified in their own account what they have heard and seen. Jesus did not forced them to write, they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write down what had happened. Are you comparing the quran to the Holy Bible? My friend there is no comparison. Ask yourself if someone witnessed muhammed speaking to an Angel. Many false prophets did that and look what happened. The only conclusion you can make to assess the story of muhammed is it is not cohesive and the errors are just too many that it took 200 years for your elders to edit it several times. Besides, who would have believed muhammed? The goat? Try to compare the life and works of muhammed and Jesus. there is no comparison. Jesus had the prophesies how He would come while muhammed came from nowhere. Jesus conception is God’s while muhammed is natural. Jesus performed miracles to prove that He came from God while muhammed was a man who had the ambition and lusts with women. Jesus offered his life as ransom for our sin while muhammed slaughtered many to scare people to accept his lies. Planten, be sensible and apply logic to your analysis. The story of Isaac and ishmael can not be altered. It was God’s plan.

 

[hamba2han]

… God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images.

You need to refer to your Bible in order to obtain the answer to the question of whether or not God forbids the making of graven images.

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

I would think that “any” means exactly that i.e. any image and that it is strictly forbidden for the faithful to either make or to bow down to any statues or graven images.

 

[Lance]

You need to refer to your Bible in order to obtain the answer to the question of whether or not God forbids the making of graven images.

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

I would think that “any” means exactly that i.e. any image and that it is strictly forbidden for the faithful to either make or to bow down to any statues or graven images.

You can think what ever you want to, but you are wrong. I personally will follow the Magiterium of the Church Jesus established. You are free to follow what I consider a false prophet if you wish.

 

[R_not]

hamba2han, catholics do not worship idols and graven image. If you force to give meaning to the statues and images for idols then you are completely wrong. How do you know from that picture if the Pope intentionally bowed only to the statue of Mary? For you and other heretics, yes these heretics will interpret it as shown but we catholics bow down in respect of the Virgin Mary and not to the statue because we consider the statue as an illustration that can be like in our imagination how Mary would look like. Deep in our hearts and mind when we bow down to a statue, it is not considering the statue as idol but the spirit that reflects out of that illustration reminding us how Mary could look like. The bottom line is the statues and images you find in the Catholic Churches are not considered idols by the Catholics and are not graven in their own understanding. Only those who are not catholics can give “idol” meaning on them. Most books especially children’s books have illustrations to completely depict what are being told in the story. If there was a photograph during muhammed’s time and is shown today, would muslims not revere them? Are muslims not bowing down towards mecca where the tomb of muhammed is? You are bowing down out of your respect to muhammed. Muhammed is not God.

This same muslim that you write this post for has been told by dozens of people on other threads - he doesn’t listen because what you are doing is trying to tell him something that is against islam. He has been told by clerics, or his koran/hadiths, that we worship idols so that is what he believes no matter how many people tell him otherwise. Unlike the muslims who do indeed worship a black rock encased in a silver vagina.

 

[hamba2han]

Hadith # 38

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said:

"Allah the Almighty has said: 'Whosoever acts with enmity towards a closer servant of Mine (wali), I will indeed declare war against him. Nothing endears My servant to Me than doing of what I have made obligatory upon him to do. And My servant continues to draw nearer to Me with supererogatory (nawafil) prayers so that I shall love him. When I love him, I shall be his hearing with which he shall hear, his sight with which he shall see, his hands with which he shall hold, and his feet with which he shall walk. And if he asks (something) of Me, I shall surely give it to him, and if he takes refuge in Me, I shall certainly grant him it.’"

[Al-Bukhari]

=======================================

The translation of the term wali that is mentioned in the hadith is a closer servant (awliya’) of Allah or a believer rather than a closer friend. The hadith tells us that Allah loves those who are the closer servants to Allah. There are two levels of servants of Allah: The first level is those who fulfill the obligations and avoid the prohibitions (muharramat). The second level is those who not only do this but also perform the preferable acts (nawafil).

The concept of wilayah (awliya’ Allah) is based on the verses of the Qur’an and this hadith. In the Qur’an there are three verses in Surah Yunus - Ayah 62, 63 and 64.

No doubt verily the awliya’ of Allah (the closer servants of Allah) no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve. Those who believed and used to fear Allah much, for them are the glad tidings in this life and the Hereafter.

Based on these three verses and this Hadith Qudsi, we can say that the concept of wilayah comprises of the following:

1. The love of Allah
2. Fearing of Allah
3. Belief or faith in Allah and his Messengers
4. Devotion, honesty, and sincerity
5. Obedience to Allah and following His instructions - this include performing good deeds. This motif of this obedience is based on fear of Allah, repenting to Allah and submission to His will.

The origin of wilayah is closeness to Allah and the enmity is being far away from the path of Allah. Based on this, the awliya’ of Allah are those who are obedient and perform the good deeds which make them closer to Allah. The enemies of Allah, on the other hand, are those who are evil doers. Their ill deeds distance themselves away from Allah and this will make them far from Allah’s blessing, support, and love.

In the first portion of the hadith (“Nothing endears My servant to Me than doing of what I have made obligatory upon him to do. And My servant continues to draw nearer to Me with supererogatory (nawafil) prayers so that I shall love him.”), Allah classifies His servants into two categories:

1. The first category are those who get closer to Allah by fulfilling the obligations and avoiding the prohibitions. This is a moderate level that has been described in the Qur’an as ashab alyameen. This is the minimum level of wilayah expected from all believers and it is achieved just by fulfilling the obligations and avoiding the prohibitions.
2. The second category of people are those who are closer to Allah by being competent (al-sabiqeen) in their worship and effort and strive to be close to Allah. This category of people are not satisfied only of performing the obligations and avoiding the prohibitions but they go further by performing the preferable acts. They also avoid the non-preferable acts. Consequently, they will reach the degree of wara’ and wilayah that will make Allah love them. Allah mentions this explicitly and that His love will be granted for these competent people.

Some of the early people (salaf) used to say that it is not a big matter whether you love; the biggest matter is to be loved by Allah. If you are loved by Allah, then you are granted with His mercy and blessings. You are going to be granted with His support and guidance.

The second portion of this hadith (“When I love him, I shall be his hearing with which he shall hear, his sight with which he shall see, his hands with which he shall hold, and his feet with which he shall walk.”) implies that, as Ibn Rajab says, whoever strives, struggles and makes the effort to get closer to Allah by doing the obligations and performing the preferable acts, Allah will get him closer to him, support him, and take him from one level into another until this servant of Allah reaches the degree of Ihsan where this believer will be able to practice muraqabeh. That is he worships Allah as if he sees Him, and his heart will be full with love of Allah.

The third portion of this hadith (“And if he asks (something) of Me, I shall surely give it to him, and if he takes refuge in Me, I shall certainly grant him it.”) implies that the closer servant of Allah has a special status in the sight of Allah. This special status will lead to that whatever he asks of Allah, Allah will give him and his du’a will be attended to. If he seeks refuge from anything, he will be given that.

This hadith is a warning to those who may harm believers in general or the closer servants of Allah in particular. Allah declares war against the one who acts with enmity towards His awliya’ (closer servants). This is a message to all Muslims and people not to harm others or to be enemies with Allah by harming the believers. That is how the situation will be, if not in this life, it will be in the Hereafter.

 

[Lance]

Hadith # 38

This hadith is a warning to those who may harm believers in general or the closer servants of Allah in particular. Allah declares war against the one who acts with enmity towards His *awliya'* (closer servants). This is a message to all Muslims and people not to harm others or to be enemies with Allah by harming the believers. That is how the situation will be, if not in this life, it will be in the Hereafter.

I don't follow Islam so I could not care less about what your hadith says or does not say.

 

[R_not]

You need to refer to your Bible in order to obtain the answer to the question of whether or not God forbids the making of graven images.

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

I would think that “any” means exactly that i.e. any image and that it is strictly forbidden for the faithful to either make or to bow down to any statues or graven images.

There was even a thread on this subject and we went into this extensively - most of it is art. Some of it isn’t even that good of art, but it is art nonetheless of figures of the Saints, Mary and Jesus. YOu have been told this by far better than me. BUT because you are intolerant, don’t want to take our words for it but your cleric’s word for it who hasn’t a clue as to what our religion is but instead follows the koran and hadiths and continues to spread intolerance and hatred, you continue along the same thinking.

So, you say we worship statues - when in fact we don’t even need those statues - you guys worship a black rock! A rock encased in a silver vagina, no less! A rock that mohammed used to kiss when he was a pagan! He used allah - the god of his pagan religion, and a black rock of his pagan religion - and then you don’t even know the roots of your own religion and tell us that it is abrahamic. It can’t even get the biblical stories correct because mohammed was ILLITERATE. He couldn’t read the Bible. And here is the kicker! mohammed kept changing his mind on what allah was saying! That is why the koran is full of errors!

biblestudymanuals.net/quran9e.htm

A quote:
**We noted the haphazard means by which the Qur’an was collected, and were appalled by the many abrogations and errors which exist in this supposedly “perfect” word of Allah. We came to the conclusion that the book could be nothing more than a man-made piece of literature, which could not stand alongside the great literary compositions that we have in our possession today. Yet, we found it troubling that there were so many inadequacies with this most ‘holy book’ for the Muslims.

As we approached the study on the collation of the Qur’an, we were shocked by the glaring deficiencies which were evidenced in its collection, forcing us to conclude that much of its content must have been added too much later.

If this be so, we are now left with the question as to where the author or authors went for their material? Where were the sources for many of the stories and ideas which we find in the Qur’an?

When we read the Qur’an we are struck by the large number of Biblical stories within its pages. Yet, these stories have little parallel with that which we read in our Bible. The Qur’anic accounts include many distortions, amendments, and some bizarre additions to that which we have heard our parents read to us at devotional times.

So, where did these stories come from, if not from the previous scriptures? **

Read on and find out that the Jewish Talmund had a lot of play into mohammed’s fabrications and the "Jews do not consider the Talmudic writings authoritative, but merely use them as windows with which to understand the times in which they were written. "