Learning healthy selfishness?

[DarkLight]

This has always been a struggle for me. I want to live the gospel values out, caring for others and wanting to put others first. Yet at the same time it seems I struggle with having a basic healthy selfishness. I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing. I can’t tell the difference between things I need and things I want. I can’t trust anyone to tell me what I actually need, because it seems like I’ve gotten bad advice so many times. I feel like I have to be horribly selfish and demanding just to survive, especially with mental health problems that spill over into the physical realm. And with depression and anxiety it seems so often that I have no knowledge of my own capabilities. I’m on welfare, I feel like I’m lazy not working and using other people’s money, but I also am not sure if I can work or if it would be a good idea long-term even if I could.

I just don’t feel like I know what I’m doing anymore. I feel like I have to be selfish and bad just to take care of myself. I’m constantly second-guessing everything, did I really need that, could I have done just a bit more for others, am I just being selfish and taking things I don’t really need.

How do you find balance when it seems like what you have to do to survive is what you’ve always been taught is wrong?

 

[ready]

Please don’t be selfish or do anything bad. Pray for what you need and obtain what you need only in ways that are pleasing to God. Humbly trust in God’s help (with 100% confidence in Him), and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Ask Mary to help you with your decisions, she’ll help you to know if you truly need to buy something or not. God bless you.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Needs are those things you need to live (utilities, food, basic clothing, shelter), and wants are those things you can live without (expensive or large amounts of clothing, tv and cable, etc.) Most people think they need certain things which are really wants.

 

[DarkLight]

Needs are those things you need to live (utilities, food, basic clothing, shelter), and wants are those things you can live without (expensive or large amounts of clothing, tv and cable, etc.) Most people think they need certain things which are really wants.

This is the hard part for me. I was trying to focus on living with only the things I needed. You know where it got me? It got me pushed right into a mental breakdown where I couldn’t even take care of those on my own. Focusing only on my needs, on the things I know are needs, has left me flat on my back to where I can’t work at all.

But there’s so many things there. I could probably hold down some sort of job, but I have no idea what sort or how many hours I could work, and I’m worried that if I do too many it’ll make my health worse. I feel like I need more sleep than most people, I know I need some more but I have no idea how much and when I’m just being lazy. I feel like I kind of want to volunteer or be doing something now that I’m not working but I have no idea what I can do and where the line is between me respecting my poor health and just being lazy.

And every time I don’t do something my conscience is telling me that it’s a sin. Every time I buy anything that I don’t strictly 100% obviously need my conscience tells me it’s a sin. I can see overall that I can’t live that way, that I clearly need more than I’m getting, yet I can’t point to any one thing and say that it’s what I need and am missing. I feel like I have no way to obtain even basic things in a way that’s pleasing to God because I’m not 100% sure I can’t work and really need the benefits I’m getting. And because I feel like I’m being selfish and entitled for relying on government benefits for food and healthcare when I don’t know for sure what I am and am not capable of.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Sirach 14

3 Wealth is not the right thing for the niggardly, and what use are possessions to the covetous?

4 Whoever hoards by stinting himself is hoarding for others, and others will live sumptuously on his riches.

5 If someone is mean to himself, whom does he benefit? he does not even enjoy what is his own.

6 No one is meaner than the person who is mean to himself, this is how his wickedness repays him.

7 If he does any good, he does it unintentionally, and in the end he himself reveals his wickedness.

8 Wicked the person who has an envious eye, averting his face, and careless of others’ lives.

9 The eye of the grasping is not content with what he has, greed shrivels up the soul.

10 The miser is grudging of bread, there is famine at his table.

11 My child, treat yourself as well as you can afford, and bring worthy offerings to the Lord.

12 Remember that death will not delay, and that you have never seen Sheol’s contract.

13 Be kind to your friend before you die, treat him as generously as you can afford.

14 Do not refuse yourself the good things of today, do not let your share of what is lawfully desired pass you by.

15 Will you not have to leave your fortune to another, and the fruit of your labour to be divided by lot?

16 Give and receive, enjoy yourself – there are no pleasures to be found in Sheol.

 

[Bookcat]

Not a big one on the term “self esteem” for it gets misused etc.

But here is work for you “self esteem without selfishness”: scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=771 (I have not read it but it seems to be apt for the subject involves selfishness).

 

[Anglewannabe]

I can’t trust anyone to tell me what I actually need, because it seems like I’ve gotten bad advice so many times.

Your right, you can’t trust anyone to tell you what you need because that is between you and God. It is a skill that takes years to develop. Spend time in prayer and he will guide much better that any human being

Angie

 

[the_phoenix]

Sirach 14

3 Wealth is not the right thing for the niggardly, and what use are possessions to the covetous?

4 Whoever hoards by stinting himself is hoarding for others, and others will live sumptuously on his riches.

5 If someone is mean to himself, whom does he benefit? he does not even enjoy what is his own.

6 No one is meaner than the person who is mean to himself, this is how his wickedness repays him.

7 If he does any good, he does it unintentionally, and in the end he himself reveals his wickedness.

8 Wicked the person who has an envious eye, averting his face, and careless of others’ lives.

9 The eye of the grasping is not content with what he has, greed shrivels up the soul.

10 The miser is grudging of bread, there is famine at his table.

11 My child, treat yourself as well as you can afford, and bring worthy offerings to the Lord.

12 Remember that death will not delay, and that you have never seen Sheol’s contract.

13 Be kind to your friend before you die, treat him as generously as you can afford.

14 Do not refuse yourself the good things of today, do not let your share of what is lawfully desired pass you by.

15 Will you not have to leave your fortune to another, and the fruit of your labour to be divided by lot?

16 Give and receive, enjoy yourself – there are no pleasures to be found in Sheol.

Thank you for this!

 

[DarkLight]

Your right, you can’t trust anyone to tell you what you need because that is between you and God. It is a skill that takes years to develop. Spend time in prayer and he will guide much better that any human being

Angie

What do you do in the meantime? I never know…I prayed and I thought what I was doing was right and it turned out it wasn’t. I don’t trust prayers like that anymore, all I ever hear is my own messed-up conscience. I can’t just keep violating my conscience all the time but I can’t live on what it tells me I need.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

It seems, DarkLight, that you need to learn the virtue of temperance. Let me show you how to get it. My discussion may seem a bit dry, but please try to bear with it.

First off, temperance, according to the old Catholic Encyclopedia, is “the righteous habit which makes a man govern his natural appetite for pleasures of the senses in accordance with the norm prescribed by reason.” Since it is “of the senses,” temperance deals with drink, food, sex and interpersonal relationships, property, and the like.

But what is the norm prescribed by reason? That is, what is the guiding principle for practicing and developing temperance?

It is this: the desire to be beautiful. Yes, you’ve read that right: the guiding principle of temperance is one’s desire to be desirable. Indeed, St. Thomas of Aquinas so highly esteemed this guiding principle that he made it one of the two prerequisites to having temperance, with the other being the fear of getting ugly. In philosphical terms, these two prerequisites are called honesty (the love of the beauty of temperance) and shamefacedness (the fear of the disgrace of intemperance).

Now of course we are not talking about physical beauty here, but of spiritual beauty. If it was the former, then physically unattractive people would not be able to be temperate. However, temperance does make, maintain, and enhance physical beauty. The physically most attractive people in the world take good care of their bodies to maintain their appearances, after all. Moreover, it is important to note that spiritual beauty can and does trickle down to the physical, and even those who are not physically attractive can attract people because of spiritual beauty. For example, I doubt anybody can call Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta to be physically attractive, but her spiritual beauty had attracted countless people to her presence, and she still attracts countless more to her cause even after death.

But the spiritual beauty of temperance is not primarily for people, but for God, because we love God.

Imagine a couple who have fallen in love with each other. It has been said that a person who is deeply in love is the most vain person alive. Imagine these two staring at and clawing inside their closets for hours deciding which clothes to wear, and then another few hours wearing them and making them and themselves more presentable; of buying new clothes or perfume or cars just to impress their love. And yet a person who is deeply in love is also the most selfless person alive. Imagine these two people sacrificing their time, money, and sometimes even health and society just to see each other, to give gifts to each other, to be with each other. All because two people want each other only for themselves.

Lovers are selflessly selfish.

 

[DarkLight]

+JMJ+But what is the norm prescribed by reason? That is, what is the guiding principle for practicing and developing temperance?

It is this: the desire to be beautiful. Yes, you’ve read that right: the guiding principle of temperance is one’s desire to be desirable.

I don’t know what it would look like for someone like me to be desirable in that way. Only that to be desirable in the ways I know, I would need to be healthy. Not physically but mentally. I would need to banish the flashbacks, to dull the pain of the memories or prevent them from rising to the surface. I would need to be able to make my mind stay like it used to and not wander. I would need to be able to sleep reliably and get up reliably. I can barely do these things, and I have to take far more than I should ever need to approach them. Yet every time I do my conscience is screaming at me that I’m greedy and selfish, that I’m leeching off others and giving back nothing. And I never know what I really need and what I just want, only that I don’t want to live the way I’m living and that I haven’t found a way out. Just more insanity disguised as “treatment” that makes you want to claw your own eyes out.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

:hug1: To be honest I am at a loss what to say, DarkLight. What happened to you was terrible, and I cannot even begin to imagine the struggles you are going through everyday.

I do hope you are going to a psychologist/psychiatrist? These things cannot be handled alone nor with people in an online forum. Tell him/her everything you’ve been reading here to see if they seem to be good or appropriate for you. I may be preaching to the choir but I want to be sure.

You may want (again with the approval of your psychiatrist/psychologist) to read how I discern my desires whether they are good to me or not, and how I plan to attain them when they seem to be good:

+JMJ+

Whenever I have a desire to attain something, I do three steps.

First is to examine the desire. St. Thomas Aquinas said that part of our nature is the desire to love God more than ourselves. Since this is part of our human nature, whenever we desire or attain something that is contrary to God’s desire, we can discern a certain threat to or breaking of peace inside us if we are attentive. Alternatively, if what we desire or attain is according to God’s plan for us, there is a certain peace. Therefore, what I do is sincerely pray: “Jesus, you know I love you more than myself!” then think of the desire. If there is a certain peaceful urging, then I would do the next step below; if there is hesitation I would place it in the back burner of my mind or ask for advice from someone more knowledgeable; if there is discord within myself then I reject it.

Second step is to make a plan to achieve this desire, then present the plan to Mary with the conviction that since this is what I and Jesus desire, I am presenting my and Jesus’ plan to our mother for approval as sons of her. This is the method described in the book My Ideal: Jesus Son of Mary. As it is written (presented as the words of Mary to the reader):

Do you want success to crown all your efforts? Let me repeat what I have already said, so you get to realize its importance: always come to me and submit your plans to me, in order never to act except in my name…

I am not going to answer you, of course, by a revelation, but, if you come to me in all confidence and with the sincere intention of executing what seems to be my will, you will ordinarily understand whether or not I approve of your resolves. If I seem to approve, confide them to me, so that I may help you realize them. If I do not, pray and reflect; then submit to me another but more precise resolution which I can approve.

Once I have my plans approved by Mary, I then entrust myself to Joseph’s protection as I work towards my goals.

God bless.

 

[DarkLight]

+JMJ+

:hug1: To be honest I am at a loss what to say, DarkLight. What happened to you was terrible, and I cannot even begin to imagine the struggles you are going through everyday.

I do hope you are going to a psychologist/psychiatrist? These things cannot be handled alone nor with people in an online forum. Tell him/her everything you’ve been reading here to see if they seem to be good or appropriate for you. I may be preaching to the choir but I want to be sure.

You may want (again with the approval of your psychiatrist/psychologist) to read how I discern my desires whether they are good to me or not, and how I plan to attain them when they seem to be good:

God bless.

No, never. If I’d never listened to a psychiatrist I’d be perfectly healthy. They are the ones that inflicted this torture on me, that made me take meds that made me want to die, that lied about me and hurt me and abused me. I would be healthy and happy if only I’d had the sense to stay far, far away from that system.

I cannot go back there. I cannot go back into that system knowing the abuses that run through it. Knowing that if I’d only listened to myself rather than their lies I would have stayed away. I wouldn’t have stayed with the boyfriend that hurt me except they counseled me towards it. I wouldn’t have nightmare after nightmare just from remembering the effects of the drugs they gave me, remembering the intense pain that wasn’t in my life until someone gave me an antidepressant. I wouldn’t have had my secrets betrayed to my manipulative family because perfectly innocent behaviors were read as symptoms. I wouldn’t have had to face being treated as a criminal just because I didn’t say the words someone wanted to hear. I wouldn’t have had to face just how real disbelief is, how anything anyone does to you becomes ok because you’ve been labelled as unreliable and sick and they say they’re trying to help.