Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Communion

[frenchbeatle]

At my old church, there was a Benedictine sister who invited me to her monastary rather often. I would go to Sunday Mass with the community and then have brunch with the sisters. It was a good experience.

There is one thing that bothers me about it, though. The bread that was consecrated was leavened, not unleavened. Correct me if I’m wrong please, but I thought the bread is supposed to be unleavened, since Jesus was celebrating the Passover, which required unleavened bread.

I asked her and some other sisters about this, and the answer I got was that they were trying to use up bread that the kitchen had baked too much of.

What do you think of this? Is the Eucharist offered there valid if they continue to use leavened bread?

 

[Brendan]

What do you think of this? Is the Eucharist offered there valid if they continue to use leavened bread?

The bread is required, in the Latin Church, to be unleaven as a point of Church Law. Leaven bread is still valid matter (meanting that it will become the Eucharist).

Leaven bread is what is mandated in most of the Eastern Catholic Churches, so we cannot deny that its use valid for the Sacrament.

But the Latin (Roman) Church requires the use of unleaven bread.

So, in short, it really was the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, but there was either great error, or disobedience in it’s use.

 

[baltobetsy]

I asked her and some other sisters about this, and the answer I got was that they were trying to use up bread that the kitchen had baked too much of.

Better solutions than theirs: bread pudding, strata, panzanella, french toast, turkey stuffing…

Betsy

 

[eichenb2]

My family and I attended a Melkite Greek Catholic Church this past Sunday and they used leavened bread.

 

[Montalo]

My family and I attended a Melkite Greek Catholic Church this past Sunday and they used leavened bread.

however, since that is an Eastern Catholic Church, that falls under the eastern canon, and not the roman canon. because of that, leavened bread is the proper substance

 

[bpbasilphx]

but I thought the bread is supposed to be unleavened, since Jesus was celebrating the Passover, which required unleavened bread.

---

If you read these accounts in the original Greek, they clearly say the Lord took ARTOS, which always means leavened bread.

 

[Brendan]

but I thought the bread is supposed to be unleavened, since Jesus was celebrating the Passover, which required unleavened bread.

---

If you read these accounts in the original Greek, they clearly say the Lord took ARTOS, which always means leavened bread.

Artos does not always mean leavened bread. It simply means ‘bread’ a generic term encompassing all forms for bread. Artos, for example was the word used to describe manna in the Septuagint.

We also know that manna that was simply bread like, with no yeast at all.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\I asked her and some other sisters about this, and the answer I got was that they were trying to use up bread that the kitchen had baked too much of.\

**If it were bread that had been baked with the intention of using it at the Eucharist, even had it been leavened (such as in the Byzantine and Syriac traditions), that would be one thing.

I cannot speak for the Syriacs, but Byzantine prosphora may contain water, wheat flour, yeast, and maybe a dash of salt–PERIOD. (I assume Syriacs have their canonized traditional recipes, too.)

If it’s a situation of, “Oh, no! It’s time for mass, and this is all we have. What do we do?” this is another situtation entirely.

But using any bread for the Eucharistic Sacrifice simply because you have a superfluous quantity of it sounds … well, “offensive to pious ears” to me.

**

 

[malphono]

… The bread that was consecrated was leavened, not unleavened. …

I asked her and some other sisters about this, and the answer I got was that they were trying to use up bread that the kitchen had baked too much of.

I have to assume that this was not a monastery of true cloistered Benedictine nuns. At least I hope it wasn’t.

What these sisters are saying is, as a prior poster noted

bpbasilphx:

But using any bread for the Eucharistic Sacrifice simply because you have a superfluous quantity of it sounds … well, “offensive to pious ears” to me.

but one thing bothers me more: the priest. If the sisters don’t know better (and I’m quote sure they do, but that’s another matter), the priest should. Taken together, it would appear that the priest was “in on it” and supported (or at least agreed to) the use what amounts to illicit matter.

 

[frenchbeatle]

Thanks for all your replies. I knew something was wrong, but I was afraid I was being too technical.

They always had guest priests, often the same priest would come back again and again. I can only assume that they either accepted the explanation about the bread, or they did not see it as a big problem.

I’m not sure if they are cloistered per se. They definitely live in community, though some of them do live together outside of the monastary. I guess I always think of cloistered as meaning that the sisters cannot talk. This community would not qualify as that. But if cloistered means living together in community, then for the most part, this community would qualify.

What also bugged me about this community was that at least two of the sisters either did not know about, or did not think much of Eucharistic Adoration. I realize that not all Catholics are aware of or interested in this devotion, but it surprised me that a religious community did not put more emphasis on this devotion.

 

[otjm]

There is a reason (well, actually, there are reasons might be more accurate) that Rome has decided to review the various orders groups and etc. of nuns, sisters, etc…

 

[po18guy]

The Sacrament was valid, as it was the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus.
It was also illicit, which means that, lacking an emergency, there was no justification for the Priest to consecrate leavened bread. As such, it was confessory material for that Priest.

In future, remember that you may justifiably skip any such Eucharist. You are required to partake only at Easter. This incident would be, especially with the flippant attitude displayed, something for the Bishop to be made aware of.

 

[Crumpy]

There is a controversy of sorts about whether Jesus’ last meal was a passover meal. The synoptics seem to make a clear point that it was a passover meal, but John’s gospel hedges or is just ambiguous enough, to drive a truck through the loophole he opens.

The term “last supper” is well-accepted in the Church, everyone knows what it means, but it is not a scriptural term. I think it is based on the painting of the same name by DaVinci, if I’m not mistaken.

So, then, if we don’t absolutely know (according to those who are in the minority, of course) that this meal was a passover meal, then we don’t know if the bread was unleavened or not. In the face of that esoteric discussion, there are those who want to challenge church law on this subject and so they use leavened bread for the Eucharist in the western rite.

So, the use of leavened bread in the Eastern rites shows that the matter was not settled definitively over the centuries, and so there are different traditions for different reasons.

Leavened bread is much more religiously significant based on the laws for the observance of the passover, which was fulfilled in the death of Jesus on the cross. It’s the only form of eucharistic bread that I prefer to see (which should settle the matter here and now, no?)

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

One thing to keep in might though is that not all unleavened bread is paper thin.

I have attended Mass with a group of sisters who bake their own bread. It is unleavened but it is much thicker than the hosts that are normally used.

 

[otjm]

One thing to keep in might though is that not all unleavened bread is paper thin.

I have attended Mass with a group of sisters who bake their own bread. It is unleavened but it is much thicker than the hosts that are normally used.

Likewise, the Trappist Abbey where I occasionally attend; the large host is about 1/2" thick, dark brown (unprocessed wheat) and about 6" across, scored to break into pieces about 1" square. It really looks like bread. most of that is distributed to the monks, but not all; the rest of the hosts are of standard size and thickness that I suspect most people see and receive.

 

[malphono]

One thing to keep in might though is that not all unleavened bread is paper thin.

I have attended Mass with a group of sisters who bake their own bread. It is unleavened but it is much thicker than the hosts that are normally used.

Yes, I recall having first experienced thick unleavened altar bread during the post-conciliar liturgical free-for-all. I thought that by now it was history but apparently not. It was made in a round about 6" in diameter, and had to be broken-up into individual pieces (it was scored) either beforehand or prior to communion. I rather consider it a Western “new age” adaptation, and I find it problematic for liturgical use in that it does not hold together well and crumbs very very easily.

In any case, it’s not the traditional way to bake unleavened bread, at least not from my Middle Eastern perspective. The topic of unleavened bread has come up before, and rather than repeat myself, I’ll simply give a [post=5778219]link[/post] to a previous post.

 

[otjm]

Yes, I recall having first experienced thick unleavened altar bread during the post-conciliar liturgical free-for-all. I thought that by now it was history but apparently not. It was made in a round about 6" in diameter, and had to be broken-up into individual pieces (it was scored) either beforehand or prior to communion. I rather consider it a Western “new age” adaptation, and I find it problematic for liturgical use in that it does not hold together well and crumbs very very easily.

In any case, it’s not the traditional way to bake unleavened bread, at least not from my Middle Eastern perspective. The topic of unleavened bread has come up before, and rather than repeat myself, I’ll simply give a [post=5778219]link[/post] to a previous post.

Thanks for the link. Ihave observed the ciborium when approaching for the Eucharist; no noticible crumbs; having received one of the thicker Hosts several times, I did not have noticeable crumbs either; so it may be they have learned how to prepare and bake. Perhaps I should ask a couple of questions next time I am there.