Leaving out the handshake at the sign of peace?

[Sandalwood]

We all know, that is easier said than done. It has become pretty much expected that you shake hands. When in a crowd and the shaking starts it is hard to do something different. People are still going to expect a handshake. Some would probably even after you bow.

Rheumatoid arthritis is very painful.

God bless.

Thank you Diana.

 

[carmelitenovice]

Thanks for all the responses.

Just to clarify, I was just wondering about the situation. I have no opinion one way or the other about the sign of peace and I make no judgment about priests who include it or not. I also can relate to those who find the sign of peace painful or worry about germs or about the “free-for-all” that sometimes ensues.

As I said, these were priests not known for making the Mass suit themselves.

Thanks again and

peace be with you!

 

[Exorcist]

or not go. that’s what my son did after leg surgery and while in a brace another parishioner kicked him in that leg and told him it didn’t matter if he was in a brace or just had surgery, he should still kneel (didn’t matter that the brace was locked and he literally couldn’t bend it.) he hasn’t been since. good Christian charity…

Yeah, I’m sure that’s a real problem in the Church today.

 

[Exorcist]

We all know, that is easier said than done. It has become pretty much expected that you shake hands. When in a crowd and the shaking starts it is hard to do something different. People are still going to expect a handshake. Some would probably even after you bow.

Rheumatoid arthritis is very painful.

God bless.

Then simply ignore them.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How the sign of peace is shown is not scripted or formatted. I never shake hands with my wife, I kiss her…but, neither do I ever kiss the lady sitting in the row in front or behind me, I simply shake her hand

Some people just do not like to shake hands, and that is hardly an indication that they are not wishing someone peace…in the winter flu season, I am very picky about who I shake hands with at the sign of peace if I am in a crowd of wheezing, coughing, sneezing, folks…it can be done without offending anyone, and doesn’t mean I am rejecting their friendship.

When you visit other countries, or even geographic areas within the same country, you see different customs for sharing the sign of peace.

The most charming I saw was a Mass in Iraq. The way it was conducted was the priest shook hands with the alter servers. The alter servers went down the isle, shaking hands with the person setting on the end of the pew. That person turned and shook hands with the person next to him, and it continued down the pew…Kinda like a Wave at a footboall game.

We often don’t know when people pray for us, because we don’t see it. I imagine the same is true of their offers of peace to us. Just because there is not a physical gesture, does not mean they are not sharing peace with us.

I would like that a lot, because I never know whom to turn to and invariably, I reach out to someone just as they are reaching out to someone ELSE which makes for an awkward moment.



That way, everyone would only shake hands with 2 people, the one on the near side and the one on the far side. Perfect solution!

 

[Sandalwood]

Yeah, I’m sure that’s a real problem in the Church today.

it is a problem and save your sarcasm, no one needs it or wants it. shows what kind of person you are though

 

[Exorcist]

it is a problem and save your sarcasm, no one needs it or wants it. shows what kind of person you are though

No one needs or wants to hear about a highly rare, preventable and likely contrived incident. Your comments show what sort of person YOU are when you mention “HATE” in your first posting. If your arthritis is that bad I am sincerely amazed that you can type without great pain and having to resort to extra meds.

 

[Windmill]

Sandalwood, sorry about your experience (and your son’s). Sounds like you’ve really had to deal with some flak. I’d hate to think of how poorly I’d deal with it if I was in your place. Keep the faith, man.

I think the Church needs to recatechize its members in a major way. Perfect liturgy isn’t going to keep souls in the One True Faith - Christian charity is. I’m not saying that we should tolerate crumby liturgy, but don’t let the rubrics of Mass prevent you from realizing the grace that underlies Mass. So many people approach grace in a passive way. They attend Mass and receive grace, but they don’t let that grace change them in any real way. They don’t struggle against the world, the flesh, and the Devil. They just go through the motions and accept that as a “relationship with God”. You need both faithful liturgy and saintly determination to grow in holiness.

You can be liturgically perfect and still go to Hell.

 

[Sandalwood]

Sandalwood, sorry about your experience (and your son’s). Sounds like you’ve really had to deal with some flak. I’d hate to think of how poorly I’d deal with it if I was in your place. Keep the faith, man.

I think the Church needs to recatechize its members in a major way. Perfect liturgy isn’t going to keep souls in the One True Faith - Christian charity is. I’m not saying that we should tolerate crumby liturgy, but don’t let the rubrics of Mass prevent you from realizing the grace that underlies Mass. So many people approach grace in a passive way. They attend Mass and receive grace, but they don’t let that grace change them in any real way. They don’t struggle against the world, the flesh, and the Devil. They just go through the motions and accept that as a “relationship with God”. You need both faithful liturgy and saintly determination to grow in holiness.

You can be liturgically perfect and still go to Hell.

thank you Windmill. My son is healing well but still hasn’t gone to Mass. I’m very sad about that.

I agree with everything you said here. Many people know “the rules” but don’t apply the grace to their lives.

 

[JillianRose]

thank you Windmill. My son is healing well but still hasn’t gone to Mass. I’m very sad about that.

I agree with everything you said here. Many people know “the rules” but don’t apply the grace to their lives.

Hello!!

I want you to know that you can talk to your priest. I am sure he will give your son the OK and then when they say/do something you can mention the priest is OK with it!! I had a C-section and the weekend after I got home, I went to mass. The up and down would of tore the stitches. The Priest and more importantly GOD knows the truth. People really need to mind their own business.

 

[Exorcist]

thank you Windmill. My son is healing well but still hasn’t gone to Mass. I’m very sad about that.

I agree with everything you said here. Many people know “the rules” but don’t apply the grace to their lives.

Getting kicked in the leg is a assault – a criminal offense. Why didn’t you call the cops? Anyone who would actually kick a kid (or anyone for that matter) in the context of the Mass is clearly unbalanced. This is definitely not something that can be blamed on those who seek reverence and beauty in the liturgy.

 

[Soler]

Good grief. Smile, put your right hand over your heart and bow your head to those who want to shake your hand. Or you could just close your eyes with your hands up to your face. The corporal sign of peace should not be eliminated because individuals aren’t willing to take steps to safeguard themselves from “snooty people telling me how unchristian I am.”

No one needs or wants to hear about a highly rare, preventable and likely contrived incident. Your comments show what sort of person YOU are when you mention “HATE” in your first posting. If your arthritis is that bad I am sincerely amazed that you can type without great pain and having to resort to extra meds.

Getting kicked in the leg is a assault – a criminal offense. Why didn’t you call the cops? Anyone who would actually kick a kid (or anyone for that matter) in the context of the Mass is clearly unbalanced. This is definitely not something that can be blamed on those who seek reverence and beauty in the liturgy

Post 1: Showing rank intolerance towards Sandalwood and offering quite a ridiculous “solution”.
Post 2: Implying that Sandalwood is dishonest and showing unwarranted anger.
Post 3: Offering more ridiculous advice (as if anyone would go to the police over something as minor as that) and thereby sticking your nose in other people’s business.

Exorcist, you need to calm down.

 

[agnes_therese]

I occasionally have a flare-up of arthritis in my hands – and it always hits my right hand, of course. When that happens, I just don’t offer my hand during the sign of peace. If someone tried to make a grab for it, I’d have to turn away. Let them think what they want to.

 

[Sandalwood]

Post 1: Showing rank intolerance towards Sandalwood and offering quite a ridiculous “solution”.
Post 2: Implying that Sandalwood is dishonest and showing unwarranted anger.
Post 3: Offering more ridiculous advice (as if anyone would go to the police over something as minor as that) and thereby sticking your nose in other people’s business.

Exorcist, you need to calm down.

Thank you Soler. It’s ok. I know and God knows I speak the truth. My family has gone thru a lot over the last couple of years and if people don’t understand or don’t believe, that’s on them, not me. God has taken good care of us, and we praise Him. I really don’t feel the need to humor people like exorcist. They will always think what they want based on their own experiences and mindsets.

God Bless You Soler

 

[Exorcist]

Post 1: Showing rank intolerance towards Sandalwood and offering quite a ridiculous “solution”.
Post 2: Implying that Sandalwood is dishonest and showing unwarranted anger.
Post 3: Offering more ridiculous advice (as if anyone would go to the police over something as minor as that) and thereby sticking your nose in other people’s business.

Exorcist, you need to calm down.

Leave the judgments to God.

FWIW, getting kicked to the point where the kid no longer attends Mass is “minor” to you? Good grief.

 

[JillianRose]

Leave the judgments to God.

FWIW, getting kicked to the point where the kid no longer attends Mass is “minor” to you? Good grief.

Dear friend. I think what they are pointing out that you may have been uncharitable to the person with arthritis. U seemed unfriendly. I think we all agree on the kicked kid.

I know things get lost in translation with the Internet but u did seem a skew unhinged regarding the person with arthritis.

God bless you:thumbsup:

 

[Soler]

Leave the judgments to God.

FWIW, getting kicked to the point where the kid no longer attends Mass is “minor” to you? Good grief.

That advice, I would say, pertains far more to yourself than it does to me.

And it would help if you read things in context: being kicked in the leg while wearing a brace by an obnoxious busybody during Mass is certainly not a minor incident in the normal course of things, but it is only a minor assault. If the person in question threw the child to the ground and began kicking him repeatedly in the ribs, then it would be reasonable to “call the cops”. The point is, anyway, that it is not your place or mine to give unasked-for advice on such matters.

 

[minkymurph]

That would be quite fine with me especially when the person behind you is coughing and sneezing

After reading this post, and several others, I would say the difficulties with the sign of peace could quite easily be resolved by three things; good manners, common sense (or as my grandfather used to call it, 'uncommon sense) and an established social etiquette.

During a radio debate I heard concerning the sign of peace, someone mentioned French social etiquette in that it is a well established aspect of their culture, and everyone adheres to it. Shaking hands is a big part of French social etiquette. My husband once worked for a French company and he said he took him about 10 minutes before he could start work by the time he finished shaking hands with everyone. They are into kissing as well (think my husband was relieved things didn’t go beyond shaking hands were he worked) but it’s done a certain way, and everyone knows how it works - when do it, when not to do it, and how to do it. As a result, no one is offended, feels awkward, or is unsure how to respond.

If someone has just coughed or sneezed, hopefully into a hanky, :bighanky: well it’s good manners and common sense not to shake hands with people. If someone has painful arthritis, obviously they are not going to want someone to grab their hand in a ‘death grip,’ yet if they don’t they may be considered rude. Alternatively, there are people who the opposite - barely touch your hand and immediately drop it without making eye contact - which can come across as equally rude. These problems could easily be addressed by three things mentioned above. Unfortunately, they are lacking from the practice and consequently, people don’t really know what they are supposed to do.

I’ve often said that a well established social etiquette is sadly lacking in my part of the world, not just at Mass, and we could do with it as good manners appear to have become a thing of the past.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

The most charming I saw was a Mass in Iraq. The way it was conducted was the priest shook hands with the alter servers. The alter servers went down the isle, shaking hands with the person setting on the end of the pew. That person turned and shook hands with the person next to him, and it continued down the pew…Kinda like a Wave at a footboall game

That’s how the Sign of Peace is done in the Maronite Rite, which is what they use in Iraq. There is a Maronite parish here in Portland that does the same thing. Also, which I really liked, they do the Sign of Peace BEFORE the consecration, not afterwards.

Our deacon just gave a great homily last week explaining that the Sign of Peace is not a time for conversation and socializing. He also mentioned that people should wait until they are out of the church to start socializing after Mass. Well, guess what happened at the Sign of Peace and after Mass? People completely ignored what he said and used it as social hour.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

We had First Communion at our church for the past two weekends, and each time the parish priest omitted the sign of peace. I wasn’t actually surprised, since events like First Communion mean the church is full of people who don’t regularly attend Mass and thus often don’t know how to properly act in church. Under the circumstances, I figure he was simply trying to preserve the solemnity and joy of the occasion by keeping it from turning into a hoedown.

At the Maronite liturgies, you have a sort of handshake that originates with/from the priest in a similar fashion. Except it’s not really a handshake; the server would cup his hands over the aisle person’s hands and this continues down the pew.

We did that once at our church (Latin rite), but most people seemed really confused about it. To my knowledge it was never done again.

Good job they’re not French

Sorry, this flew completely over my head. What do you mean?

(I’m not French, but I live in France)