Leaving pro-life literature, where is it legal?

[urban-hermit]

Even if a neutral place is privately owned, that may not matter, because under certain circumstances Americans can still exercise their right to free speech by leafleting in “quasi-public” places, such as supermarket parking lots, which are privately owned.

As already advised in this thread, it’s nice if you can get permission from the property owner. But if you don’t, and you end up inadvertently committing some minor infraction, you’ll probably be forgiven if you are nice and polite and cooperate with the owner’s instructions if and when he expresses any.

From the priests for life link I posted earlier:
13) Leave pro-life literature wherever you can: in public places, at restaurants, as inserts in the mail you send, on cars, etc. Give literature to friends. Send it also in prepaid business reply envelopes that come in the mail. Include it in cards you send for Christmas, birthdays, and other occasions.

The thing to remember is that human beings are being denied their right to live. They’re not being inconvenienced, they’re being murdered. It’s that perspective that pro-choice people lack, even those who know abortion is wrong. They say ridiculous things like “pro-Life leafleting is wrong because * littering” - they completely miss the point of the leaflet, and that it might also be picked up by a pregnant woman who as a result will not have an abortion, saving a human life in the process.*

 

[nan]

Amen to that, urban-hermit.

 

[Elric]

To answer the question about where to leave such cards, you leave them where it is appropiate.

A rest room isnt appropiate because that isnt where abortions are performed, same with libruaries and the like (especally restruants where you could turn people off their food).

Perhaps counciling centres would be appropiate, since some go to councilling in regards to this issue. But ask the counciller first, dont force your opinion on them. Hand them out to people at fertillity clinics.

Your target should be people who are considering abortions, not anyone who happens to be there at the time and throwing around pro life material randomly isnt the way to do it.

To the issue of children seeing this material, nobody has the right to tell or force other parents how to raise their children. Some may think that it is fine for their children to be exposed to such graphic images/material, thats your choice as their parent, but that doesnt mean that you can expose other parents children to the same thing or force other parents to expose their children to the same thing when they dont want to.

Acting in such a way is disrespectful to the other parent and their children and how exactly did they wrong you to deserve that?

 

[KarenNC]

The thing to remember is that human beings are being denied their right to live. They’re not being inconvenienced, they’re being murdered. It’s that perspective that pro-choice people lack, even those who know abortion is wrong. They say ridiculous things like “pro-Life leafleting is wrong because * littering” - they completely miss the point of the leaflet, and that it might also be picked up by a pregnant woman who as a result will not have an abortion, saving a human life in the process.*

I neither lack perspective nor miss the point of the leaflet. I understand fully your aims. I question and dispute the particular methods we are discussing. To represent my main point as merely “they are wrong because they are littering” is disingenuous and has me wondering if you have missed the main point of my argument entirely. The term was only used in reference to an example of trying to explain your methods to a young child as one of the things I believe a child woud see this as. The methods being discussed are ultimately counterproductive to gaining public support of your cause.

As to the “certain circumstances,” it would be a good idea to clarify exactly what those circumstances are and whether they apply to you before you go about doing something.

I’m still waiting for you to explain what you believe “my position” is, btw, and what you specifically object to in it since you have stated that it is “nonsense.”

 

[estesbob]

I neither lack perspective nor miss the point of the leaflet. I understand fully your aims. I question and dispute the particular methods we are discussing. To represent my main point as merely “they are wrong because they are littering” is disingenuous and has me wondering if you have missed the main point of my argument entirely. The term was only used in reference to an example of trying to explain your methods to a young child as one of the things I believe a child woud see this as. The methods being discussed are ultimately counterproductive to gaining public support of your cause.

As to the “certain circumstances,” it would be a good idea to clarify exactly what those circumstances are and whether they apply to you before you go about doing something.

I’m still waiting for you to explain what you believe “my position” is, btw, and what you specifically object to in it since you have stated that it is “nonsense.”

Do you think abortion should be illegal?

 

[KarenNC]

Do you think abortion should be illegal?

I have said we can discuss that after I hear from urban hermit. Otherwise, I will not know what s/he believed my position to be when that statement was made and whether it was accurate.

 

[estesbob]

I have said we can discuss that after I hear from urban hermit. Otherwise, I will not know what s/he believed my position to be when that statement was made and whether it was accurate.

One has nothing to do with the other. It seems apparent to me thatyou dont want this literature paassed out becuase you dont want to expalin to you child why you support abortion.

 

[convert_2000]

nodding in agreement I never leave my cards on people’s cars. And I don’t leave them just lying on the ground either. See, this is why I’m asking…I don’t want to leave them on people’s private property…but I don’t know what that covers…

I guess I’m wondering, let’s say I’m shopping in a store, or eating in a restaurant, is it legal to leave the cards in the restroom? What about elsewhere in the store? Libraries? If I go use the library at my local state college, can I leave some there?

And does anyone have ideas for **good **places to leave these sorts of things?

Tif    =8-)

Tif, I think we carry the same cards Leave them where you go. Everyone leaves a calling card. In restaurants, malls, anywhere. I go to laundrymats.

Have you heard Karl Keating’s story of why he left his law practice for apologetics? Ant-catholics left flyers on cars at his parish during mass. They were on church property leaving stories about the property owners.

We are at war in a world of secular laws, they are not God’s law. Quickly Christians are losing their rights because, frankly, we are allowing it. How much trash are our children seeing on TV, hearing from their peers, being taught in schools. Who’s complaining about that? I would much rather have my child see a pro-life card/flyer than have them see a Jackson expose her breast or grab his crotch.

I am not advocating breaking laws, but don’t let anyone discourage you in your passion for justice in saving lives.

If you still send your bills by mail, slip a card in the envelope. Leave them in every seat that you get up from. Think the way the JWs and Jack Chicks do, leave them everywhere.

Maybe you should become a EWTN missionary and leave their program guides at the same time:thumbsup:

 

[KarenNC]

** Everyone leaves a calling card. **

No, they do not.

**Have you heard Karl Keating’s story of why he left his law practice for apologetics? Ant-catholics left flyers on cars at his parish during mass. They were on church property leaving stories about the property owners. **

And you view this as an example to emulate?

**How much trash are our children seeing on TV, hearing from their peers, being taught in schools. Who’s complaining about that? **

Me, for one.

I am not advocating breaking laws, but don’t let anyone discourage you in your passion for justice in saving lives.

No one is advocating losing one’s “passion for saving lives,” simply that this is not the best way to go about it.

** Think the way the JWs and Jack Chicks do, leave them everywhere.**

By all means, use Jack Chick as a pattern card for behavior.There’s a name I would want to be associated with. Everyone respects Jack Chick and his message.

 

[estesbob]

** Everyone leaves a calling card. **

No, they do not.

**Have you heard Karl Keating’s story of why he left his law practice for apologetics? Ant-catholics left flyers on cars at his parish during mass. They were on church property leaving stories about the property owners. **

And you view this as an example to emulate?

**How much trash are our children seeing on TV, hearing from their peers, being taught in schools. Who’s complaining about that? **

Me, for one.

I am not advocating breaking laws, but don’t let anyone discourage you in your passion for justice in saving lives.

No one is advocating losing one’s “passion for saving lives,” simply that this is not the best way to go about it.

Think the way the JWs and Jack Chicks do, leave them everywhere.

By all means, use Jack Chick as a pattern card for behavior.There’s a name I would want to be associated with. Everyone respects Jack Chick and his message.

Do you believe abortion should be illegal?

 

[boppaid]

As already advised in this thread, it’s nice if you can get permission from the property owner. But if you don’t, and you end up inadvertently committing some minor infraction, you’ll probably be forgiven if you are nice and polite and cooperate with the owner’s instructions if and when he expresses any…

I guess I don’t understand why you can’t just get their permission to begin with.

 

[boppaid]

Do you believe abortion should be illegal?

I understand you want to know the answer to this question, but I honestly don’t think it’s relevant to this particular conversation. Karen does not agree with “leaving pro-life literature”…that is the debate on this thread…not the act of abortion itself. I think we’re supposed to stay on topic.

That said, I do know people who are pro-life that also do not agree with leaving this kind of stuff in privately owned places.

 

[estesbob]

I understand you want to know the answer to this question, but I honestly don’t think it’s relevant to this particular conversation. Karen does not agree with “leaving pro-life literature”…that is the debate on this thread…not the act of abortion itself. I think we’re supposed to stay on topic.

That said, I do know people who are pro-life that also do not agree with leaving this kind of stuff in privately owned places.

Do you think abortion should be illegal.? Why all the dodgeing of a very simple qestion?

 

[boppaid]

Do you think abortion should be illegal.? Why all the dodgeing of a very simple qestion?

Okay, why on earth are you insinuating that I dodged that question? When did you ever ask me that? I will answer, though, without hesitation.

I believe that abortion is sad, and against what God wants for us. I would never advise anyone I know to get one. I would never do so either.

That said, I don’t vote for political candidates based on that issue. I look at all the issues, and see who is overall more compassionate, responsible (fiscally and socially) on the most issues. The last 7 or 8 years that has been the democrats, in my own personal opinion.

So, to answer your question, I am prolife, but do not base my voting solely on that. DO I think abortion should be legal? No, but I cringe at the thought of botched back street abortions, too. I do donate money to pro-life causes, especially those that take care of pregnant women who do have financial means to care for babies. I NEVER donate money to groups that harrass women outside of doctors offices and clinics.

 

[estesbob]

Okay, why on earth are you insinuating that I dodged that question? When did you ever ask me that? I will answer, though, without hesitation.

I believe that abortion is sad, and against what God wants for us. I would never advise anyone I know to get one. I would never do so either.

That said, I don’t vote for political candidates based on that issue. I look at all the issues, and see who is overall more compassionate, responsible (fiscally and socially) on the most issues. The last 7 or 8 years that has been the democrats, in my own personal opinion.

So, to answer your question, I am prolife, but do not base my voting solely on that. DO I think abortion should be legal? No, but I cringe at the thought of botched back street abortions, too. I do donate money to pro-life causes, especially those that take care of pregnant women who do have financial means to care for babies. I NEVER donate money to groups that harrass women outside of doctors offices and clinics.

A simple no,I dont think abortions should be illegal would have saved us all a lot of time reading the standard rationalizations as to why its ok to support people who enable the killing of our children.

At least now we know why you dont want people handng out pro-life literature. It would be nice if Karen was as honest as you.

BTW-it sounds like you need to read some of this literature you dont want people passing out. You would find that the problem of widespread death by back alley abortions is a myth propogated by the people you support in order to sucker you into supporting them. In the years prior to Roe 98% of all abortions were done in a sterile enviroment by licensed physicians. With the advent of antibioritcs in the late 40s early 50s the materal death toll from illegal abortions was betweeen 200 and 400 per year. However the legalization of abortion resulted in the deaths of 1.2 million more children per year. The idea that anyone who supports this carnage is compassionate in any way is specious and is usually a sympton elicted by those who put their politics before their faith.

 

[KarenNC]

In the years prior to Roe 98% of all abortions were done in a sterile enviroment by licensed physicians. With the advent of antibioritcs in the late 40s early 50s the materal death toll from illegal abortions was betweeen 200 and 400 per year. However the legalization of abortion resulted in the deaths of 1.2 million more children per year.

Source?

 

[KarenNC]

A simple no,I dont think abortions should be illegal would have saved us all a lot of time reading the standard rationalizations as to why its ok to support people who enable the killing of our children.

At least now we know why you dont want people handng out pro-life literature. It would be nice if Karen was as honest as you.

Since urban hermit has posted at least once since I asked for the basis of his/her assertion that my position is nonsense, it appears that s/he agrees that s/he has no idea what my position is and therefore the statement was meaningless. My objections to this practice are independent of my views on abortion itself. The discussion is not about views, it is about the choice of actions to express those views. I have heard the same objections from both sides of the issue and all along the spectrum between the two extremes.

As to my “honesty,” I have been very honest and very specific with my objections to the practice of leaving literature containing graphic pictures of dead and mutilated children strewn around the landscape without either concern for obtaining the permission of the owners of the property or concern in who actually ends up receiving the material. I object to the practice of leafleting and tracts in general being left around, regardless of who is using them or the nature of their cause and whether or not I agree with their stance. If one is handing them directly to someone, at least then they have some control over whether or not to take the material and what they then choose to do with it.

In summary, the means of spreading your message matter. Such a practice lessens public support of your cause and as such is actively detrimental to it. If this practice leads to others refusing to listen to you at all or dismissing your message because you are now lumped in with Jack Chick (though that seems the goal of some), in what way does that help those you seek to help? I will tell you very bluntly that there is very little public respect and a great deal of outright derision and dismissal around here for Operation Rescue/Operation Save America precisely because of their choice of tactics. On the other hand, there is a great deal of respect for the crisis pregnancy centers and others who have the same end goals but go about reaching them in a very different way.

 

[Scottgun]

.

That said, I don’t vote for political candidates based on that issue. I look at all the issues, and see who is overall more compassionate, responsible (fiscally and socially) on the most issues. The last 7 or 8 years that has been the democrats, in my own personal opinion.

Sorry, but a candidate who supports the return of chattel slavery is an unacceptable candidate no matter how compassionate he is on other issues. The same with abortion because both are grave and intrinsic wrongs and voting for them amounts to cooperation with evil. It ain’t a balance sheet–that’s the proportionalist heresy. Support for a single intrinsic wrong poisons the whole candidate.

 

[Scottgun]

.

As to my “honesty,” I have been very honest and very specific with my objections to the practice of leaving literature containing graphic pictures of dead and mutilated children strewn around the landscape without either concern for obtaining the permission of the owners of the property or concern in who actually ends up receiving the material. I object to the practice of leafleting and tracts in general being left around, regardless of who is using them or the nature of their cause and whether or not I agree with their stance. If one is handing them directly to someone, at least then they have some control over whether or not to take the material and what they then choose to do with it.

 

[estesbob]

Since urban hermit has posted at least once since I asked for the basis of his/her assertion that my position is nonsense, it appears that s/he agrees that s/he has no idea what my position is and therefore the statement was meaningless. My objections to this practice are independent of my views on abortion itself. The discussion is not about views, it is about the choice of actions to express those views. I have heard the same objections from both sides of the issue and all along the spectrum between the two extremes.

As to my “honesty,” I have been very honest and very specific with my objections to the practice of leaving literature containing graphic pictures of dead and mutilated children strewn around the landscape without either concern for obtaining the permission of the owners of the property or concern in who actually ends up receiving the material. I object to the practice of leafleting and tracts in general being left around, regardless of who is using them or the nature of their cause and whether or not I agree with their stance. If one is handing them directly to someone, at least then they have some control over whether or not to take the material and what they then choose to do with it.

In summary, the means of spreading your message matter. Such a practice lessens public support of your cause and as such is actively detrimental to it. If this practice leads to others refusing to listen to you at all or dismissing your message because you are now lumped in with Jack Chick (though that seems the goal of some), in what way does that help those you seek to help? I will tell you very bluntly that there is very little public respect and a great deal of outright derision and dismissal around here for Operation Rescue/Operation Save America precisely because of their choice of tactics. On the other hand, there is a great deal of respect for the crisis pregnancy centers and others who have the same end goals but go about reaching them in a very different way.

It is obvious you support the legality of abortion. A person who feels passionaltely that slaughtering our children should always be illegal would not give us paragraph after paragraph of why they arent going to answer the question. A any rate regardless of you protestations to the contrary one has to assume that you objection to this literature is it holds a view contrary to yours.