Leaving pro-life literature, where is it legal?

[RichT]

What gives you the impression that because I object to running across business cards with graphic photos of dead babies that I shelter my child to the point that it is too late to teach her anything? What point do you consider too late for this particular topic, out of curiosity?

You stated earlier in the thread that you should not be forced into explaining what an abortion is just because of your 5 year old finding these cards. In other posts, you have given the impression that you don’t feel it is appropriate to discuss abortion with young children. Although, I don’t think we should be graphic when we discuss this with our children, we need to start planting pro-life seeds in our children’s minds while they are still young.

There are a lot of parents who just feel they should wait, but unfortunately, it’s often too late. And keep in mind that I was only resonding to your post and not necessarily singling you out, or accusing you of sheltering your children. My statements were not personal, but instead were general comments on my concerns. No need to be overly sensitive.

 

[estesbob]

We are in a battle of semantics here, it seems to me. Bob, do you not consider yourself “pro-life” even though you say: **" I also do not support making it illegal in all and every case." **Then Karen should be given the same courtesy.

I am afraid you’ve got your attributions mixed up. Happens to me all the time also. What you have bolded above is what Karen said.

I do not believe there any circumstances where abortion should be legal.

 

[Amolibri]

I am afraid you’ve got your attributions mixed up. Happens to me all the time also. What you have bolded above is what Karen said.

I do not believe there any circumstances where abortion should be legal.

Sorry “Bob” I realized that after I hit the submit button. Of course you would not even want to safe the life of the mother.

 

[estesbob]

Sorry “Bob” I realized that after I hit the submit button. Of course you would not even want to safe the life of the mother.

When my grandmother was pregnant with my mother she was informed that she must have an abortion or she would die. Foolish Catholic that she was she decided to put it in the hands of God. My mother ,my father ,my siblings and all our children are very grateful for this .

 

[Philothea53]

it is simply sometimes medically warranted in ways that the Catholic Church does not accept.

QUOTE]

Karen, In what way is murder by abortion EVER medically warranted in any way, shape or form whether accepted by the Catholic Church or not? I’ve given a lot of latitude here -

 

[boppaid]

There are a lot of parents who just feel they should wait, but unfortunately, it’s often too late.

That’s your opinion, though. Many parents do feel they should wait and that is their right (and obligation ) as parents…to parent in the way they feel is best for their children.

 

[mapleoak]

You’re right. Once I found you were pro-choice I was not surprised at all about the views you had.

Thank you estesbob for drawing this out. I had a very strong suspicion early on as well and quit replying.

 

[mapleoak]

Actually I don’t support the legality of and use of abortion in all cases. I also do not support making it illegal in all and every case because it is simply sometimes medically warranted in ways that the Catholic Church does not accept.

Better to abide by the what the Catholic Church teaches than to follow what the medical profession warrants when it is at odds with the Church.

This is not because it holds a view contrary to mine–our views on the subject are actually fairly close.

They may be very close in some ways, but are ‘fatally’ different in others.

 

[estesbob]

Thank you estesbob for drawing this out. I had a very strong suspicion early on as well and quit replying.

It was like pulling teeth but I felt all along her opposition to this literature was based on a desire not to explain her child why she supported what the literature was condemning

 

[RichT]

That’s your opinion, though. Many parents do feel they should wait and that is their right (and obligation ) as parents…to parent in the way they feel is best for their children.

I’m not questioning that most parents want to do what they feel is right for their children, but I will tell you that parents who wait on important topics like sex, abortion, and drugs, in today’s world are naive in their thinking. Many will lose the battle, and their children will have formed other opinions by the time their parents take the time to teach them what is right. And if you think for one minute that a young child isn’t capable of forming a strong opinion contrary to yours, you are sadly mistaken.

So go ahead and shelter your children.I will pray for all those who do. I’ve seen it happen all too much. Parents are afraid they will scar their children by teaching reality, and in the long run it’s those children who suffer because they don’t know how to deal with these bad things when confronted with them. But don’t worry, there will be someone there to teach them what their parents failed to teach them.

 

[RobHom]

Sheeeesh, I’m actually going to sound like an old timer… Bit thats OK.

Way back in the 50’s and early 60’s…when I was growing up, it was considered “socially unacceptable” to be involved in sexual actions with another person…unless you were “MARRIED”! Nowadays, it seems that the coin has been flipped over.

My parents didn’t tell us much about sex…we got the “stork story”, until we basically learned about the birds and the bee’s on our own.

But still, girls that were promiscuous were “bad girls”, and believe or not…boys that bragged were not respected either. If a girl got sent to “live with an aunt” in another state…we all knew what that meant.

Our problem today is the lack of moral values teaching of children, while at the same time “over-protecting” them from reality. Nowadays…a kid seen riding a bicycle is so padded he or she looks like the “Michelin man”!! We didn’t wear anything except clothes…and it only took one good fall to learn that pain “hurts” and that was a stunt you didn’t want to pull again.

I never was involved in sex with a girl, because frankly my father told me that if I got a girl pregnant…he would beat me to death. I know that is harsh…but I believed he would, so I kept my hands to myself. It was “birth control” by threat. It worked.

There were precious few abortions back then. It was not yet legal. But even still…I do believe if parents today taught their children proper morals, and enforced a code of good morals, then there would be far fewer abortions, and the issues would decrease on one level. I also think if parents were stronger in influencing their children’s choices in clothing…if the parents were “modest” inclined…there would be fewer problems as well.

Frankly, I am a “grandfather”, and while I am not all that old, my grandchildren know I do not approve of girls or young ladies dressing inappropriately…and they take care to insure they don’t.

Ouch, that all hurt…I sound like an old man…

 

[Philothea53]

Sheeeesh, I’m actually going to sound like an old timer… Bit thats OK.

Way back in the 50’s and early 60’s…when I was growing up, it was considered “socially unacceptable” to be involved in sexual actions with another person…unless you were “MARRIED”! Nowadays, it seems that the coin has been flipped over.

My parents didn’t tell us much about sex…we got the “stork story”, until we basically learned about the birds and the bee’s on our own.

But still, girls that were promiscuous were “bad girls”, and believe or not…boys that bragged were not respected either. If a girl got sent to “live with an aunt” in another state…we all knew what that meant.

Our problem today is the lack of moral values teaching of children, while at the same time “over-protecting” them from reality. Nowadays…a kid seen riding a bicycle is so padded he or she looks like the “Michelin man”!! We didn’t wear anything except clothes…and it only took one good fall to learn that pain “hurts” and that was a stunt you didn’t want to pull again.

I never was involved in sex with a girl, because frankly my father told me that if I got a girl pregnant…he would beat me to death. I know that is harsh…but I believed he would, so I kept my hands to myself. It was “birth control” by threat. It worked.

There were precious few abortions back then. It was not yet legal. But even still…I do believe if parents today taught their children proper morals, and enforced a code of good morals, then there would be far fewer abortions, and the issues would decrease on one level. I also think if parents were stronger in influencing their children’s choices in clothing…if the parents were “modest” inclined…there would be fewer problems as well.

Frankly, I am a “grandfather”, and while I am not all that old, my grandchildren know I do not approve of girls or young ladies dressing inappropriately…and they take care to insure they don’t.

Ouch, that all hurt…I sound like an old man…

I think you sound wonderful. I am not yet a grandmother (although I could be) and everything you said is exactly how I remember it too. Boy, those were the good ol’ days, huh?

 

[RobHom]

As far as distributing literature… I don’t see the point for the most part. 99% probably gets the trash can, just like “Chick Tracts”, and the rest…who knows.

By the time the average person has learned how to reason things out, they have already made up their mind on many things, and a piece of literature isn’t going to have a great deal of influence. Sorry, but thats my opinion.

Its probably legal to leave just about anywhere at least if there is not a legal warning “prohibiting” the distribution of handbills, etc.

A cruel and harsh reality in this world is that “You cannot legislate morality”. People are going to do what they are going to do, even in the face of laws.

I am very much against abortion, however, even if you outlaw it again…it is still going to happen. Sad, but true. It happened before Row vs Wade.

Spiritual education and strong moral training will do far more than a law.

But I applaud your efforts

 

[RobHom]

I think you sound wonderful. I am not yet a grandmother (although I could be) and everything you said is exactly how I remember it too. Boy, those were the good ol’ days, huh?

Susan,

Thank you for the kind words! And yes…those were the “good ol’ days”!!! Would that I could return to a world like that…

PS: I like your “signature line”…Truer words have never been spoken!!!

 

[KarenNC]

You stated earlier in the thread that you should not be forced into explaining what an abortion is just because of your 5 year old finding these cards. In other posts, you have given the impression that you don’t feel it is appropriate to discuss abortion with young children. Although, I don’t think we should be graphic when we discuss this with our children, we need to start planting pro-life seeds in our children’s minds while they are still young.

No, I flat out stated that I don’t feel it is appropriate to discuss abortion with young children across the board. That there might exist a few cases in which it is relevant to their lives, I could possibly see, I suppose, but to my mind this is a topic better left until they have the developmental wherewithal to actually process the information. This does not mean I propose never saying anything about it until they are thirty. There is a vast difference in what a 3 or 4 year old is able to process and understand in a meaningful way and what a 9-10 year old is (take a look at Piaget).

I am not against “planting seeds” in my child’s mind. I have been doing it all her life when we have discussions, read stories, etc about the sacredness of life and the value of all people. I can certainly do this without showing her graphic pictures of dead babies. I can “plant the seeds” of the value of and need for peace without showing her graphic pictures of dead and maimed soldiers and civilians.

 

[KarenNC]

KarenNC;2579080:

it is simply sometimes medically warranted in ways that the Catholic Church does not accept.

QUOTE]

Karen, In what way is murder by abortion EVER medically warranted in any way, shape or form whether accepted by the Catholic Church or not? I’ve given a lot of latitude here -

In the case of using chemical means to end an ectopic pregnancy rather than surgery when that option is available.

As to other situations in which the pregnancy itself constitutes a life-threatening situation to the mother before the child is viable, I will have to let someone who has the proper medical credentials weigh in on that. That is one reason I oppose making abortion illegal across the board. It removes the option for doctors to use it when it is indeed medically considered the best treatment option available.

 

[KarenNC]

Better to abide by the what the Catholic Church teaches than to follow what the medical profession warrants when it is at odds with the Church.

If I were a Catholic, I might agree with that.

 

[KarenNC]

It was like pulling teeth but I felt all along her opposition to this literature was based on a desire not to explain her child why she supported what the literature was condemning

Obviously “feelings” can be wrong. When you finish patting yourself on the back for claiming that I support things I do not, you might want to actually read my responses. I do not advocate or support abortion across the board. I do not advocate or support abortion for getting rid of an “inconvenient” pregnancy, for sex selection or for avoiding having a child with disabilities. Abortion is always and without exception a tragic situation, but there are also other, equally tragic, medical choices that sometimes have to be made. To tie doctors’ hands from using the least harmful option available to them in all situations seems to me to be totally contradictory to a position of valuing the sacredness of life.

 

[KarenNC]

But even still…I do believe if parents today taught their children proper morals, and enforced a code of good morals, then there would be far fewer abortions, and the issues would decrease on one level. I also think if parents were stronger in influencing their children’s choices in clothing…if the parents were “modest” inclined…there would be fewer problems as well.

I agree with you, Rob

 

[Philothea53]

Karen,

I was wondering what steps if any have you taken to shield your children from television shows and movies that glorify, condone and promote profane language, nudity, sex, and in today’s acceptance of everything, open homosexuality and the commercials advertising these that come on at any time of the day or night and on most channels? Have you called or written to the major televeision networks about the commercials on their shows for Viagra/Cialis/personal lubricants, etc.? How many times have you spoken to a grocery store manager about the magazines at the checkout with half-dressed celebrities and SEX in big bold letters that invite the reader to learn how to be better in bed? Have you been to your school board to see what their plans are for what they feel is their right, no, their duty, to teach your children how to put a condom on a cucumber and that Sally has two mommys and that is perfectly normal? Have you questioned the Girl Scouts partnership with Planned Parenthood and the sexuality education they are bringing to our young girls?

These are just a few of the ways that our children are being bombarded daily. If you need to shield their eyes from pictures of babies that have been shredded in the abortion process, you might look at these other areas of our culture that need to be addressed. Maybe by ridding ourselves of them, we might also stop the infant genocide that make the prolife message necessary.