Leaving pro-life literature, where is it legal?

[KarenNC]

BTW, for those who think that only people who are “pro-all-abortion-all-the-time” might possibly consider exposing young children to these graphic images undesirable, you might want to check out the thread on “Anti-abortion protest signs–how far is too far.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=49299

What a lot of you (and those in that thread) seem to be missing is that I and others are not saying that the images should never be shown, that they are inaccurate, that they have no value and that our children should never, ever encounter them as long as they live anymore than they should never encounter pictures of the horrors of war, child abuse, the Holocaust, torture, slavery, etc. Just that they don’t have episodes on these things with graphic photos on Sesame Street for a reason. Narrow your focus a bit in the use of these particular sorts of images to venues and situations where they are appropriate.

 

[Philothea53]

BTW, for those who think that only people who are “pro-all-abortion-all-the-time” might possibly consider exposing young children to these graphic images undesirable, you might want to check out the thread on “Anti-abortion protest signs–how far is too far.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=49299

What a lot of you (and those in that thread) seem to be missing is that I and others are not saying that the images should never be shown, that they are inaccurate, that they have no value and that our children should never, ever encounter them as long as they live anymore than they should never encounter pictures of the horrors of war, child abuse, the Holocaust, torture, slavery, etc. Just that they don’t have episodes on these things with graphic photos on Sesame Street for a reason. Narrow your focus a bit in the use of these particular sorts of images to venues and situations where they are appropriate.

Hey, Karen, what do you know about epileptology?

 

[KarenNC]

These are just a few of the ways that our children are being bombarded daily.

Maybe your child is. If so and you consider it to be a problem, you may want to re-evaluate your lifestyle choices. Personally, I have worked to take steps to mitigate that bombardment as much as possible for mine because I view that as my responsibility as a lparent.

Take a look at post #85 where I have already answered this particular question. I do actively take a very public stand on situations that I consider inappropriate (as I am doing here and with as much, if not more, vehemence, time and energy). I do try my utmost to shield my child to an extent appropriate to her age and understanding from those things that our family considers immoral or actively harmful to her. That doesn’t mean that I intend to never let her know that humans are capable of inflicting great harm on each other. She already knows that. My list and the Catholic Church’s may not coincide completely, but that hardly means I don’t have one or that I do not care about my child’s environment. What in the world have I posted on this thread to make you think that I am not just as concerned about everything that impacts her?

This is not a case of objecting to possibly encountering these graphic abortion images on my way to take my three year old to an X rated slasher movie clutching her Bratz prostitute doll, while she is wearing a matching Bratz “Hi, I’m Sexy” cropped tshirt, vinyl miniskirt and fishnets, sized 3T, and cursing at her not to spill the beer or drop that joint she’s carrying .

If we are done with accusing me of being a hypocrite based on absolutely no evidence that I can see, can we get back to the topic at hand?

 

[RobHom]

Actually, if one wishes to educate their children against the evils that exist in our world…it should be done by the child’s parents or by someone that the parents trust and who will do it properly.

For young children to be exposed to illustrations or pictures showing graphically the results of an abortion…is one thing, but on the other hand…not a good thing to be done by hollering and shouting protesters. The message gets badly lost in the noise. Their, the children’s attention, will not be on the message, but on adults acting like “rabble”. I know some protesters do it quietly and professionally, but the ones I have seen…could use some lessons.

Being overprotective of children and their so called “sensitivities” is wrong. If they are not made aware of the evils that exist, or that have existed, all that is produced are terribly naive and vulnerable adolescents who may well grow into vulnerable adults who will not be able to properly react to evils to protect themselves and their own families.

This country’s populace has wrongly abdicated their responsibilities as parents and allowed the government and school systems to take charge of their children’s moral upbringing. That is just plain WRONG!!

I learned my moral values at home and at Catechism. Not at school. My father was a tough disciplinarian, and what I learned early on…paid off in the long run.

I know that people who oppose abortions, as I do…have the right idea in their hearts, but a strong reality is this: You cannot legislate morality. That is a proven fact.

The only answer is to instill the morals and moral fabric at HOME!

 

[KarenNC]

Hey, Karen, what do you know about epileptology?

Never heard the term. Based on the roots, I would hazard a guess that it is the study of epilepsy. I can fairly intelligently discuss many aspects of epilepsy, but I am far from an expert on the subject.

I suppose it is in some way relevant to the discussion?

 

[KarenNC]

Actually, if one wishes to educate their children against the evils that exist in our world…it should be done by the child’s parents or by someone that the parents trust and who will do it properly…
The only answer is to instill the morals and moral fabric at HOME!

I couldn’t agree with you more about this point and this is precisely what I am arguing for.

 

[Philothea53]

Maybe your child is. If so and you consider it to be a problem, you may want to re-evaluate your lifestyle choices. Personally, I have worked to take steps to mitigate that bombardment as much as possible for mine because I view that as my responsibility as a lparent.

Take a look at post #85 where I have already answered this particular question. I do actively take a very public stand on situations that I consider inappropriate (as I am doing here and with as much, if not more, vehemence, time and energy). I do try my utmost to shield my child to an extent appropriate to her age and understanding from those things that our family considers immoral or actively harmful to her. That doesn’t mean that I intend to never let her know that humans are capable of inflicting great harm on each other. She already knows that. My list and the Catholic Church’s may not coincide completely, but that hardly means I don’t have one or that I do not care about my child’s environment. What in the world have I posted on this thread to make you think that I am not just as concerned about everything that impacts her?

This is not a case of objecting to possibly encountering these graphic abortion images on my way to take my three year old to an X rated slasher movie clutching her Bratz prostitute doll, while she is wearing a matching Bratz “Hi, I’m Sexy” cropped tshirt, vinyl miniskirt and fishnets, sized 3T, and cursing at her not to spill the beer or drop that joint she’s carrying .

If we are done with accusing me of being a hypocrite based on absolutely no evidence that I can see, can we get back to the topic at hand?

I wasn’t accusing you of being a hypocrite but your response just validated what I was saying. There are so many things going on in our society that we need to shield our children from. Graphic abortion pictures are necessary to help us to shield our children from the actual horror of abortion.

Parents in a society that thrives on all those examples I gave and the ones you gave need to be ever vigilant. While Planned Parenthood is given millions of our taxpayer dollars and allowed, invited, celebrated in elementary schools, Girl Scouts, and even some churches, we have to do whatever we can to counter the lies they continue to tell. After 34 years of their unrestrained lying we have to do whatever it takes. The prolife side doesn’t have the money nor the influence to make changes behind the scenes. Graphic abortion photos are a less expensive way to get over a huge message. They are a necessary evil.

 

[Philothea53]

I couldn’t agree with you more about this point and this is precisely what I am arguing for.

Are you not aware that Planned Parenthood is supported by the NEA and is in our schools? Did you hear Barack Obama, on national television advocating for sex education starting in kindergarten? Did you read about the Texas governor wanting to make Gardasil, the STD vaccine, mandatory for girls as young as 9 years old and part of the required vaccines for admission to school? Hillary Clinton’s “It Takes a Village” model has taken away the rights of parents to raise their children with the values and morals they believe in. We don’t have control over what our children see or hear or learn anymore.

Until the truth trucks rolled out in the last few years, we were losing the abortion fight in a BIG way. 34 years after Roe and almost 50 MILLION babies killed and the pro life fight was a joke. We don’t have the backing of legislators, we don’t have the backing of Hollywood, we don’t have the money. All we have had is our prayers. But, as the adage goes - God helps those who help themselves. It’s time to take it to the streets. The truth about abortion will never be told if we don’t tell it. I’m sorry if you are going to have to work a bit harder to shield your small child from a graphic photo of what abortion is, but, if even just one life is saved because the reality opened someones eyes - well, so be it.

Believe me, I wish it was different.

 

[KarenNC]

Graphic abortion photos are a less expensive way to get over a huge message. They are a necessary evil.

I strongly disagree.

 

[KarenNC]

We don’t have control over what our children see or hear or learn anymore.

Again, if you feel you are not in control of what your young children see and hear and learn and find that problematic, then maybe it is time to re-examine your lifestyle decisions and try to bring them more in line with your values. Personally, I refuse to sit back and passively cede what control I can exert to you or to anyone else when I believe that that exposure is harmful to my child.

I find this argument to be particularly poor in support of the need to expose preschoolers to graphic pictures of dead babies. I am not aware that the Catholic Church is overfond of the argument that the end justifies the means.

 

[bmmckinney]

As I’ve mentioned in the thread about graphic photos how far is too far…

Because some and even most of you won’t do what it takes to stop abortion I and others like myself will. If that means upsetting for a small period of time or even a long period of time some born people, so be it. The lives of unborn babies are much more important to me and people who want to save those babies then the discomfort of some born people.

If you are tired of not being able to fight against abortion and want to know what it is that you can really do to stop this genocide please take a look at my national prolife movie, it is the first of its kind, a full length prolife documentary, it will change your life!

youtube.com/profile?user=cbrinfo

 

[estesbob]

I learned my moral values at home and at Catechism. Not at school. My father was a tough disciplinarian, and what I learned early on…paid off in the long run.

I know that people who oppose abortions, as I do…have the right idea in their hearts, but a strong reality is this: You cannot legislate morality. That is a proven fact.

The only answer is to instill the morals and moral fabric at HOME!

Of course you can. All laws legislate morality.

We tried it yur way. for 35 years We tried to educate, we tried to legislate butwere thwrted at every turn by well meaning people who kept voting in people who aided and abetted the slaughter of our children. The always gave compassion for the little guy as their reason for doing so. and that misguided comapssion has led to 50 million dead children.

Well no more. This evil has got to end and if that means putting pictures of dismembered babies in orbortuary gabage cans on the windshield of every car in America then so be it… And when your child sees it you can either explain how you are helping to end it or you can turn your head and say "gee dear, thats terrible, but you know we just cant legislate against against filling garbage cans full of dead babies.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

RobHom, you have twice (at least) said that “You can’t legislate
morality.” As a matter of fact, that is wrong. Murder is against
the law, So is rape, drugdealing, etc. Murder is immoral, and
rape, drugdealing…

 

[Philothea53]

I strongly disagree.

In this case, a pro-bort was forced to debate a pro lifer, something that NEVER happens. They can’t argue with logic and decency and morality and values and the TRUTH. The proof is in the pudding:

lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07081407.html

CALGARY, August 14, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - After avoiding public face-offs with pro-lifers for many years, abortion advocates are stepping up to the platform. Responding to the Canadian Center for Bioethical Reform (CCBR) abortion truck campaign, a pro-abortion top-gun has been brought in all the way from the States to be interviewed with young pro-life leader Stephanie Gray on the issue of abortion.

Abortion advocates have carefully avoided such encounters in the past, but a recent media frenzy over the giant billboards depicting aborted fetuses have caused a long-time abortion warrior to accept a public debate.

lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07081406.html

Describing the AM 940 discussion/debate, Gray told LifeSiteNews.com that in 1999 she asked Arthur to debate U.S. pro-life speaker Scott Klusendorf, but she refused and subsequently published an article on why the pro-choice don’t debate the “anti-choice.”

Nevertheless, this summer the success of the abortion trucks have finally forced her to take a stand in a public debate. During the AM 940 broadcast last week, Gray noted that Arthur referred to the truck project, saying that it wasn’t a way to establish debate.

Towards the end of the interview, however, Gray responded by referring to the 1999 debate invitation. She indicated that the billboards must have been effective after all, since Arthur has reversed her earlier decision and agreed to debate Gray.

Referring to the recent debate, Gray told LifeSiteNews.com, “It took putting a truck on the road for her to finally debate me. Proving that it’s not ineffective, it forced her into the public square.”

 

[Philothea53]

lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07081401.html

Here is an article I offer in defense of the truth trucks. Our children see it all!

Catholic School Gets City to Take Down Massive Condom Billboard

",The billboard was part of a $100,000 safe-sex campaign that the Boston Public Health Commission launched during gay pride week this June. The initiative included advertisements in public stations and on buses.

The poster outside of St. Kevin’s was put up this early this summer while children were still in school. Students from Grades 5 to 8 are able to see the advertisement from the classroom window each day. “Students can look right out at it while they are sitting at their desks,” said Mahoney…"

 

[Sabda]

lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07081401.html

Here is an article I offer in defense of the truth trucks. Our children see it all!

Catholic School Gets City to Take Down Massive Condom Billboard

",The billboard was part of a $100,000 safe-sex campaign that the Boston Public Health Commission launched during gay pride week this June. The initiative included advertisements in public stations and on buses.

The poster outside of St. Kevin’s was put up this early this summer while children were still in school. Students from Grades 5 to 8 are able to see the advertisement from the classroom window each day. “Students can look right out at it while they are sitting at their desks,” said Mahoney…"

Why do they have the school’s contact info at the bottom of the page? I definitely agree with the school. However, I think it would be more approiate to contact the mayor about this instead of the school.

 

[StandUp4Truth]

How anyone can take issue with a simply printed message on a little white card that’s completely free of obscenities is beyond me. I think those of you who are so offended by these innocent little cards are visiting the wrong website.

If your child is going into a public bathroom, you have much more to fear from the sayings and images carved into the walls than you’ll ever find on one of these little cards.

What would you do if your local priest spoke about the evils of abortion in his weekly homily? Ours did, he’s one of the few good ones that is more concerned with standing up for the Catechism of the Catholic Church than keeping the collection basket full. We could use a lot more like him. And by the way, no mothers were covering their childrens’ ears during his sermon, and none of the children are any worse for having heard it.

When I was in seventh grade, we watched a video as part of our family life course called “The Silent Scream”(all Catholics need to see this). If I had it my way, this video would be mandatory viewing for all teenagers in “sex ed” classes, because it changed the lives of every student sitting in that classroom. Unfortunately, our society thinks it’s more important to teach our kids how to put condoms on bananas than to show them the truth about the abortions too many of them will one day seek.

I think leaving these cards and literature is a great idea! If even one human life is saved by it, it’s well worth the minor inconvenience it may cause a few overprotective mothers.

I’m going to start doing this myself, and I agree that if these items are strategically placed they could definitely make a difference(women’s health books, in and around clinics, etc.). God bless those of you who are crusading for truth and fighting the good fight! :knight2:

 

[mapleoak]

I do not advocate or support abortion across the board. I do not advocate or support abortion for getting rid of an “inconvenient” pregnancy, for sex selection or for avoiding having a child with disabilities.

Why not? If it is okay to kill sometimes, why not anytime?

Abortion is always and without exception a tragic situation

It is murder.

but there are also other, equally tragic, medical choices that sometimes have to be made.

What medical ‘choices’ are there in gravity to that of murder?

To tie doctors’ hands from using the least harmful option available to them in all situations seems to me to be totally contradictory to a position of valuing the sacredness of life.

What is least harmful about murder?

Its probably legal to leave just about anywhere at least if there is not a legal warning “prohibiting” the distribution of handbills, etc.

And if it were illegal, people are going to do it anyway, right?

A cruel and harsh reality in this world is that “You cannot legislate morality”. People are going to do what they are going to do, even in the face of laws.

People are going to do it anyway, right? Might as well get rid of all laws, since people are going to do it anyway.

 

[mapleoak]

Maybe your child is. If so and you consider it to be a problem, you may want to re-evaluate your lifestyle choices. Personally, I have worked to take steps to mitigate that bombardment as much as possible for mine because I view that as my responsibility as a lparent.

Applause for your efforts to shield your children from all of the aforementioned ‘bombarments’. Apparently you don’t consider it to be a problem. So you should have no problem with graphic literature, because you are taking appropriate steps to make sure your children never see them. Blindfolds, perhaps?

 

[mapleoak]

Again, if you feel you are not in control of what your young children see and hear and learn and find that problematic, then maybe it is time to re-examine your lifestyle decisions and try to bring them more in line with your values.

It appears that you feel you are not in control.

Personally, I refuse to sit back and passively cede what control I can exert to you or to anyone else when I believe that that exposure is harmful to my child.

How much control do you have over what kind of bumper sticker I choose to display.