Leaving the Catholic Church and Family Reaction

[JSmitty2005]

Vincent1560:

I am very excited for you as you get to progress more and more in your knowledge of God.

Did you mean “regress”?

 

[Stephen_Butler]

Vincent1560:

As an evangelical I take issue with this. We believe that loving God with our entire will is the most important thing a person can do. And by experiencing God’s love and loving him we are in turn better able to love our neighbors. And if you read the New Testament closely it is very clear that believers are supposed to regard each other as brothers and sisters and love God both corporately and individually.

As a Catholic who is, as we speak, in RCIA awaiting first communion this Easter, converting away from the Protestant faith, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I would like to add, as Catholic support, this excerpt from the CCC. I feel it is very pertinent and unambiguous.
Cathechism of the Catholic Church:

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

Vincent1560:

And Austin. God bless you! I am very happy that you have come to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and I am very excited for you as you get to progress more and more in your knowledge of God. As for your parents, it is important to be kind, loving and respectful when you tell them. Also Pray for their understanding and live out Christ for them! Most importantly you must be obedient to Christ first, forsaking all else (Matt 19:29). It is also important to remember that your parents are Catholics and if genuine, they also love God and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is true that we believe that certain Catholic tenants they believe and practice will hinder their relationship with God and their understanding of His nature and the nature of salvation, but it is important to keep in mind that they are Christians which is a cause for great joy! Hopefully your changed life will be an inspiration to them.

Wisdom. I hope Austin appreciates this as much as I do.

 

[jim1130]

Vincent1560:

As an evangelical I take issue with this…
It is true that we believe that certain Catholic tenants they believe and practice will hinder their relationship with God and their understanding of His nature and the nature of salvation, but it is important to keep in mind that they are Christians which is a cause for great joy! Hopefully your changed life will be an inspiration to them.

At least you were fairly charitable in your “conditional” perspetive. Others are less subtle.

 

[Vincent1560]

jim1130:

At least you were fairly charitable in your “conditional” perspetive. Others are less subtle.

My brother and sister are both Catholics and thus I have tried to come to an accurate understanding of their faith. Just like other denominations, I have found that certain Catholics I would feel comfortable calling Christians while others show little sign of a changed life. My sister is currently at a place in her life where she is coming to value her relationship with Christ and I hope that one day it will be the most important thing in her life. She frequently asks for my guidance on scriptural interpretation and my answers someitmes conflict with the teachings of the Catholic Church. When they do I tell her to the best of my ability what the Catholic position is and what the reasoning for it is and then I tell her why I disagree and urge her to pray for guidance. I sincerely believe that Catholics and Protestants both have the essentials of faith necessary to come to know Jesus and take part in salvation. While we do have significant areas of disagreement it is important that when we try and guide one another from error we do so in a spirit of charity appropriate to dealings between brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Stephen_Butler]

Vincent1560:

My brother and sister are both Catholics and thus I have tried to come to an accurate understanding of their faith. Just like other denominations, I have found that certain Catholics I would feel comfortable calling Christians while others show little sign of a changed life.

I have often resembled that remark, hopefully never again.

Vincent1560:

My sister is currently at a place in her life where she is coming to value her relationship with Christ and I hope that one day it will be the most important thing in her life. She frequently asks for my guidance on scriptural interpretation and my answers someitmes conflict with the teachings of the Catholic Church. When they do I tell her to the best of my ability what the Catholic position is and what the reasoning for it is and then I tell her why I disagree and urge her to pray for guidance. I sincerely believe that Catholics and Protestants both have the essentials of faith necessary to come to know Jesus and take part in salvation. While we do have significant areas of disagreement it is important that when we try and guide one another from error we do so in a spirit of charity appropriate to dealings between brothers and sisters in Christ.

She is fortunate to have you.

I enjoy this bit of scripture. I occasionally think I should have it tattoo’d to the inside of my eyelids.
2 Timothy 2:23-26:

Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth, and that they may return to their senses out of the devil’s snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will.

 

[LegionofMary]

kamz:

at this point all we can do is pray for him, I know when I was 22 I left the church for 3 yrs and you could not have talked me out of it, the thing is, my parents are wonderful, faithful Catholics who raised me with a strong Catholic faith and although I could run from it for awhile, I could not hide and the truth was around every corner and the thing that got me most… how could I be a member of a church that was man made? Jesus only established one church, just one…so any other church…is not the church of Jesus…so how could I go anywhere but where Jesus is.
But the fact that Austin keeps calling his service the mass when we all know the mass is CATHOLIC, shows how little he really knows and how young and naieve he is.
I was a member of the Lutheran church for 3 yrs and once said, that was a good mass when I was 22 and the minister corrected me right away and said, no dear, that was service, only Catholics have mass (ONLY CATHOLICS HAVE MASS) also, I have been to an evangelical church for a wedding and it was called a worship service…again, Austin…ONLY CATHOLICS HAVE MASS, when you give up the Catholic church you also have to give up the mass, you are no longer having mass, your just having a service.

I just can’t imagine anyone wanting to be where Jesus didn’t even establish the church, crazy, a man made church… yikes, but thats just me, I want to be in the only church Jesus himself established…so much for all that other stuff, I would rather be where Jesus wants us to be. :yup:

I just visited Crosswalk.com this evening, veiwed their forums and noticed that Austin83 had posted the same thread over there on February 22. Well, let us just keep praying that Austin is led by the Holy Spirit.

Blessings

 

[BennyD]

mosher:

You must know that you are placing your soul in extreme peril.

don’t say that mosher.

 

[JSmitty2005]

BennyD:

don’t say that mosher.

mosher was right in saying it, and I will say it again and again:

**You ** must know that you are placing your soul in extreme peril.

You **must ** know that you are placing your soul in extreme peril.

You must **know ** that you are placing your soul in extreme peril.

You must know **that ** you are placing your soul in extreme peril.

You must know that **you ** are placing your soul in extreme peril.

You must know that you **are ** placing your soul in extreme peril.

You must know that you are **placing ** your soul in extreme peril.

You must know that you are placing **your ** soul in extreme peril.

You must know that you are placing your **soul ** in extreme peril.

You must know that you are placing your soul **in ** extreme peril.

You must know that you are placing your soul in **extreme ** peril.

You must know that you are placing your soul in extreme peril.

 

[swnunley]

Austin83:

Annie I do not want to get into a religious debate, but the Evangel church’s teachings come from God more than the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith gives the pope basically as much power as God and makes us believe that the God actually speaks through the pope. That is just one issue I have always disagreed with, I believe God speaks to us directly through the bible, through the scriptures, which is what my Evangel church teaches us, not through any individual here on Earth…

…I believe that my church is truly God’s church just as much as the Catholic church, maybe even more because they teach God’s teachings in the bible, unlike the Catholic faith that relies on the pope and the officials in Rome.

Austin, before you leave the Church, you owe it to yourself to make an honest study of what it truly teaches, not what Evangel church tells you it teaches. Open the Catechism, and study it yourself. Look over these scripture references as well.

Church
Mt 16:18-19 ~ upon this rock I will build my Church
Mt 18:17-18 ~ if he refuses to listen even to the Church
Mt 28:18-20 ~ go baptize and teach all nations
Mk 16:16 ~ go to whole world proclaim gospel
Lk 10:16 ~ who listens to you, listens to me
Jn 14:16-26 ~ HS w/ you always, teach/remind everything
Jn 16:12 ~ Spirit of truth will guide you to all truth
1Tim 3:15 ~ Church is the pillar & foundation of truth

Church is Body of Christ
Col 1:18 ~ he is head of the body, the Church
1Cor 12:20-27 ~ you are Christ’s body, individual parts of it
Eph 5:30 ~ we are members of his body
Rom 12:4-5 ~ though many, we are one body in Christ
1Cor 6:15 ~ not know your bodies are members of Christ?

Church must be One
Jn 10:16 ~ there shall be one fold and one shepherd
Eph 4:3-6 ~ one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God
Rom 16:17 ~ avoid those who create dissensions
1Cor1:10 ~ I urge that there be no divisions among you
Phil 2:2 ~ be same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Rom 5:15 ~ God grant you to think in harmony w/one another
Jn 17:17-23 ~ I pray they may be one, as we are one
Jn 17:23 ~ they be brought to perfection as one
1Cor12:13 ~ in one spirit baptized in one body
Rom 12:5 ~ tho many, one body in Christ
Eph 4:4 ~ one body one Spirit, called to hope
Col 3:15 ~ you were called in one body

Church is Apostolic
Jn 15:16 ~ chose special men
Jn 20:21 ~ gave them his own mission
Lk 22:30 ~ gave them a kingdom
Mt 16:18 ~ built Church upon Peter
Jn 10:16 ~ appointed one shepherd
Lk 22:32 ~ shepherd is Peter
Jn 21:17 ~ shepherd is Peter
Eph 4:11 ~ Hierchical leadership
1Tim 3:18; 5:17 ~ bishops, priests & deacons
Tit 1:5 ~ bishops to ordain priests

Church is Authoritative
Mt 28:18-20 ~ all power given to Apostles
Jn 20:23 ~ given power to forgive sins
1Cor 11:24 ~ power to confect Eucharist
Lk 10:16 ~ power to speak w/Christ’s voice
Mt 18:18 ~ power to legislate
Mt 18:17 ~ power to discipline

Church is Infallible
Jn 16:13 ~ guided by HS in all truth
Jn 14:26 ~ HS teach/remind everything
Lk 10:16 ~ speak with Christ’s voice
1Tm 3:15 ~ Church pillar & foundation of truth
IJn 2:27 ~ annointing of HS remains in you
Act 15:28 ~ Apostles speak with voice of HS
Mt 28:20 ~ I am with you always

Church is Perpetual
Is 9:6-7 ~ of his gov’t there will be no end
Dan 2:44 ~ God’s kingdom stands forever
Dan 7:14 ~ his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Lk 1:32-33 ~ no end to Christ’s kingdom
Mt 7:24 ~ like wise man built house on rock
Mt 13:24-30
Mt 16:18 ~ gates of Hell will never prevail
Jn 14:16 ~ HS with you always
Mt 28:19-20 ~ I am with you all days

Apostolic Succession
2Chr 19:11 ~ hi priest over you in everything
Mal 2:7 ~ seek instruction from priests…
Eph 2:20 ~ built upon foundation of apostles
Eph 4:11 ~ Hiearchical leadership
1Cor 12:28-29 ~ God designated in church…
Acts 1:20 ~ let another take his office
Acts 1: 25-26 ~ Matthias selected
1Tim 3:18; 5:17 ~ bishops, priests & deacons
1Tim 4:14 ~ gift conferred by laying on hands
1Tim 5:22 ~ do not lay on hands too readily
Acts 14:23 ~ presbyters appointed
2Tim 2:2 ~ what heard from me entrust others
Tit 1:5 ~ appoint presbyters in every town

Eucharist
Jn 6:35-71 ~ I am the Bread of Life…
Mt 26:26ff ~ institution of Eucharist
1Cor 12:28-29 ~ participation in Body & Blood
1Cor 11:23-29 ~ receive unworthily=guilt B/B
Ex 12:8,46 ~ Paschal sacrifice required to eat
Jn 1:29 ~ Jesus is “Lamb of God”
1Cor 5:7 ~ paschal lamb who was sacrificed
Jn 4:31-34 ~ talking symbolically about food
Mt 16:5-12 ~ talking symbolically about food
1Cor 2:14;3:4 ~ what God means by “flesh”
Ps 27:2, Is 9:18-20, Is 49:26, Mic 3:3
Rv 17:6, 16 ~ symbolical eat/drink body/blood

…more in next post

 

[swnunley]

…continued from my last post

Confession
Mt 9:2-8 ~ Son of Man can forgive sins
Jn 20:23 ~ whose sins you forgive, are forgiven
Jn 20:22 ~ breathed on them, receive HS (Gen)
2Cor 5:17-20 ~ given ministry of reconciliation
Jm 5:13-15 ~ prayer of presbyters forgives sins
Jm 5:16 ~ confess your sins to one another
Mt 18:18 ~ whatever bind/loose in heaven…
1Jn 5:16 ~ there is sin that is not deadly

Bible and Tradition
1Cor 11:2 ~ hold fast traditions I handed to you
2Ths 2:15 ~ hold fast to traditions, oral or letter
2Ths 3:16 ~ shun those not act according to…
Jn 21:25 ~ not everything Jesus said recorded
Mk 13:31 ~ heaven/earth will pass, word not
Acts 20:35 ~ saying of Jesus not in Gospel
2Tm 1:13 ~ norm=my words/guard trust
2Tm 2:2 ~ what you heard entrust to faithful…
2Pt 1:20 ~ no prophecy matter of private interp
2Pt 3:15-16 ~ Pauls letters difficult & distort
1Pt 1:25 ~ Gods word is word preached to you
Rm 10:17 ~ faith comes from what is heard
1Cor 15:3 ~ be saved if hold to word preached
Mk 16:15 ~ go into world, spread gospel to all
Mt 23:2-3 ~ chair of Moses, observe whatever…

Primacy of Peter
Mt 16:18 ~ upon this rock I will build church
Mt 16:19 ~ keys of the kingdom, bind/loose
Lk 22:32 ~ prayed faith not fail, strengthen bro.
Jn 21:17 ~ given Christ’s flock, good shepherd
Mk 6:7 ~ angel announces resurrection to Peter
Lk 21:34 ~ risen Jesus 1st appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 ~ heads electing of Matthias
Acts 2:14 ~ led Apostles preaching on Pent.
Acts 3:6-7 ~ performs 1st miracle after Pent
Acts 5:1-11 ~ inflicts 1st punishment
Acts 8:21 ~ excommunicated 1st heretic
Acts 10:44-46 ~ revelation Gentiles baptised
Acts 15 ~ led 1st council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:17 ~ pronounces 1st dogmatic decision
Gal 1:8 ~ Paul visits Peter after conversion
Peter’s name heads list of Apostles:
-Mt 10:1-4, Mk 3:16-19, Lk 6:14-16, Acts 1:13
“Peter and his companions…”:

• Lk 9:32, 8:46, Mk 16:7
  Peter spoke for the Apostles:
• Mt 18:21, Mk 8:29, Lk 12:41, Jn 6:69

Purgatory
Mt 5:48 ~ be perfect like heavenly father
Hb 12:14 ~ strive holiness w/o none see God
Jm 3:2 ~ we all fall short in many respects
Rv 21:27 ~ nothing unclean can enter heaven
1Jn 5:16-17 ~ degrees of sin distinguished
Jm 1:14-15 ~ sin reaches maturity, brings death
2Sm 12:13-14 ~ David, tho forgiven, punished
Mt 5:26 ~ not released until pay last penny
Mt 12:32 ~ sin against HS unforgiven
Mt 12:36 ~ account for all idle words
2Mac 12:44-46 ~ atoned dead to free from sin
1Cor 3:15 ~ suffer loss, but saved thru fire
1Pt 3:18-20, 4:6 ~ JC preached to spirits prison
1Tm 1:16-18 ~ Paul prays for dead friend
1Cor 15:29-30 ~ baptized themselves for dead

Faith
Jm 2:24 ~ justified by works, not faith alone
Jm 2:26 ~ faith without works is dead
Gl 5:6 ~ 1 thing counts faith working in love
1Cor 13:2 ~ faith without love is nothing
Jn 14:15 ~ if love me, keep my commandments
Mt 19:16 ~ to enter life, keep commandments

Regenerative Baptism
Jn 3:5,22 ~ born of water & spirit
Tit 3:5 ~ saved bath of rebirth &renew by HS
Acts 2:37-38 ~ repent, be baptized, recv HS
Acts 22:16 ~ get baptized, sins washed away
1Cor 6:11 ~ washed, sanctified, justified
Rm 6:4 ~ baptized into death, live in new life
1Pt 3:21 ~ baptism saves you now
Hb 10:22 ~ heart sprinkled, bodies washed

Salvation (Past, Present, Future)
Past Event
Rm 8:24 ~ for in hope we were saved
Ep 2:5,8 ~ by grace saved by faith
2Tm 1:9 ~ he saved us, called us, by his grace
Tit 3:5 ~ saved us by bath of rebirth, HS
Present Process
Phi 2:12 ~ work out salvation w/fear/trembling
1Pt 1:9 ~ as attain goal of faith, salvation
Future Event
Mt 10:22 ~ who endures to end will be saved
Mt 24:13 ~ perseveres to end will be saved
Mk 8:3-5 ~ if lose life for my sake will save it
Acts 15:11 ~ shall be saved thru grace of Jesus
Rm 5:9-10 ~ since justified, we shall be saved
Rom 13:11 ~ salvation nearer than 1st believed
1Cor 3:15 ~ will be saved, but only thru fire
1Cor 5:5 ~ deliver man to Satan, so spirit saved
Hb 9:28 ~ J appear 2nd time to bring salvation

Judged According to Deeds
Rm 2:5-8 ~ God repays according to works
2Cor 11:15 ~ recompense by what did in body
2Cor 11:15 ~ end correspond to deeds
1Pt 1:17 ~ judges impartially by their deeds
Rv 20:12-13 ~ dead judged by their deeds
Cl 3:24-25 ~ recv due payment for what you do

 

[swnunley]

Good Works
Mt 7:21 ~ not lord lord, but does Fathers will
Mt 19:16-17 ~ to have life, keep commandmts
Jn 14:21 ~ who keeps commandments loves me
Rm 2:2-8 ~ eternal life thru good works
Gl 5:4-6 ~ no count but faith working thru love
Eph 2:8-10 ~ created in Christ for good works
Phil 2:12-13 ~ work salvation w/fear/trembling
Jm 2:14-24 ~ justified by works, not faith alone

No Assurance of Salvation
Mt 7:21 ~ not all say “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Mt 24:13 ~ perseveres to end will be saved
Rm 11:23 ~ remain in his kindness, or cut off
Phil 2:12-13 ~ work salvation w/fear/trembling
1Cor 9:27 ~ drive body for fear of disqualified
1Cor 10:11-12 ~ who thinks secure, may fall
Gl 5:4 ~ away from C, fallen from grace
No Assurance of Salvation (cont’d)
2Tim 2:11-13 ~ hold out to end to reign w/J
Hb 6:4-6 describes who falls away from HS
Hb 10:26-27 ~ if sin after recv truth, judgement

Hell
Is 33:11,14 ~ who can live w/everlast’g flames
Mt 25:41 ~ depart, accursed, into eternal fire
Mt 25:46 ~ these will go to eternal punishment
Lk 3:16-17 ~ chaff burn in unquenchable fire
2Th 1:6-9 ~ these pay penalty of eternal ruin

Original Sin
Gn 2:16-17 ~ the day you eat of tree, you die
Gn 3:11-19 ~ G p’ment for eating of the tree
Rm 5:12-19 ~ many became sinners thru 1 sin
1Cor 15:21-23 ~ by a man came death,in Adam
Eph 2:1-3 ~ we all lived in passion of our flesh

Mary
Lk 1:28,30 ~ full of grace, found favor w/God
Lk 1:40 ~ Elizabeth “blessed among women”
Lk 1:48 ~ “All gen’s will call me blessed”

Mary, Mother of God
Lk 1:43 ~ Elizabeth called her “mother of my Lord” = God
Mt 1:23 ~ virgin bear a son, Emmanuel = “God is with us”
Lk 1:35 ~ child to be born will be called holy, Son of God
Gal 4:4 ~ God sent His Son, born of a woman

Assumption
Gn 5:24 (Heb 11:5) ~ Enoch taken to heaven without dying
2 Kgs 2:11 ~ Elijah assumed into heaven in fiery chariot
Mt 27:52 ~ many saints who had fallen asleep were raised
1 Thes 4:17 ~ caught up to meet the Lord in the air
1 Cor 15:52 ~ we shall instantly be changed at the last trump
Rom 6:23 ~ for the wages of sin is death
Rev 11:19-21 ~ ark in heaven = woman clothed with sun

Immaculate Conception
Lk 1:28 ~ hail full of grace (highly favored) Lord is w/ you
Lk 1:30 ~ you have found favor with God
Lk 1:37 ~ for w/ God nothing shall be impossible
Gn 3:15 ~ complete enmity between woman and Satan, sin
Ex 25:11-21 ~ ark made of purest gold for God’s word
*Rom 3:23 ~ all have sinned and are deprived of God’s glory
*Lk 1:47 ~ my spirit rejoices in God my savior

Perpetual Virginity
Lk 1:34 ~ how can this be, since I do not know man
Lk 2:41-51 ~ age 12, no other children mentioned but Jesus
Mk 6:3 ~ “the son of Mary” not “a son of Mary”
*Mt 13:55-56 ~ brothers James, John, Simon and Jude
Mt 27:56 ~ Mary mother of James/Joseph, also
Jn 19:25 ~ Mary, wife of Clopas
Jn 19:26 ~ entrusted Mary to John, not a younger sibling
Jn 7:3-4 ~ brothers giving advice “go to Judea, manifest self”
Mk 3:21 ~ set out to seize him, “he is out of his mind”
Mt 28:20 ~ I am with you always, until end of the age
1 Tim 4:13 ~ until I arrive, attend to reading, teaching
1 Cor 15:25 ~ he must reign until he has enemies underfoot
Lk 1:80 ~ John in desert until day of his manifestation
Ex 13:2 (Num 3:12) ~ consecrate firstborn that opens womb
Ex 24:20 ~ firstborn among your sons you shall redeem

 

[swnunley]

Repetitious Prayer
*Mt 6:7 ~ do not babble like the pagans w/ their many words
1 Kgs 18:25-29 ~ called on Baal from morning to noon
Mt 26:44 ~ prayed a third time, saying same thing again
Lk 18:13 ~ O God, be merciful to me, a sinner
Rev 4:8 ~ repeat day & night, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lamb.”
1 Thes 5:17 ~ pray w/ out ceasing

Relics
2 Kgs 13:20-21 ~ contact w/ Elisha’s bones restored life
Acts 5:15-16 ~ cures performed by Peter’s shadow
Acts 19:11-12 ~ cures by facecloths that touched Paul

Scandals in the Church
Jer 32:32-35 ~ OT leaders, priests offered child sacrifices
2 Kgs 23:7 ~ OT cult prostitutes in temple of the Lord
Jn 4:22 ~ in spite of infidelity, salvation is from Jews
Mk 14:43-46 ~ Judas betrayed him
Mk 14:66-72 ~ Peter denied him
Jn 20:24-25 ~ Thomas refused to believe his resurrection
Mk 14:66-72 ~ They all left him and fled Gesthemene
Rom 3:3-4 ~ will their infidelity nullify fidelity of God – no
2 Tim 2:13 ~ if we are unfaithful, He remains faithful
Mt 13:24-30 ~ parable of the weeds among the wheat
Mt 13:37-48 ~ parable of net that collects fish of all kinds

Call No Man Father
Acts 6:14, 7:2 ~ St. Stephan calls Jewish leaders “fathers”
Acts 21:40, 22:1 ~ St. Paul calls Jerusalem Jews “fathers”
Rom 4:16-17 ~ Abraham called “the father of us all”
1 Cor 4:14-15 ~ I became your father in JC thru gospel
I Tim 1:2 ~ my true child in the faith
Tit 1:4 ~ my true child in our common faith
Heb 12:7-9 ~ we have earthly fathers to discipline us
Lk 14:26 ~ if anyone comes to me w/o hating his father
1 Thes 2:1 ~ we treated you as a father treats his children
Phil 10 ~ whose father I became in my imprisonment
1 Jn 2:13-14 ~ I write to you, fathers, because you know him

Statues
*Ex 20:4-5 ~ do not make and worship graven images
Ex 25:18-19 ~ make two cherubim of beaten gold
Num 21:8-9 ~ Moses made bronze serpent & put it on pole
1 Kgs 6:23-29 ~ temple: engraved cherubim, trees, flowers
1 Kgs 7:25-45 ~ temple: bronze oxen, lions, pomegranates

Infant Baptism
Jn 3:5, Mk 16:16 ~ baptism required for entering Heaven
Rom 5:18-19 ~ all are born w/ Adam’s sin & need baptism
Mk 10:14 ~ let children come; kingdom belongs to such
Lk 18:15 ~ people were bringing even infants to him
Col 2:11-12 ~ baptism has replaced circumcision
Jos 24:15 ~ as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord
Mt 8:5ff ~ servant healed because of centurion’s faith
Mt 15:21ff ~ daughter healed due to Canaanite woman’s faith
Lk 7:1ff ~ but say the word, and my servant shall be healed
Acts 16:31 ~ believe in the Lord J, you & house will be saved
Acts 16:33 ~ he and all his family were baptized at once
1 Cor 1 :16 ~ I baptized the house of Stephanus
St. Hippolytus of Rome (215 AD): “Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves, let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents and relatives speak for themselves.” The Apostolic Tradition 21
Origen (post 244 AD): “The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism also to infants.”Commentary on Romans 5,9
St Cyprian of Carthage (225 AD): Council of Carthage condemned the opinion that infants should be withheld from baptism until the 8th day after birth, as was the case with circumcision. Letter 64 (59), 2.

Tradition Condemned?
*Mt 15:3 ~ break commandments of God for your tradition
*Mk 7:9 ~ set aside God’s commandments to uphold tradition
Col 2:8 ~ seductive philosophy according to human tradition
2 Thes 2:15 ~ commends them to keep tradition
1 Cor 11:2 ~ commends them for following apostolic tradition
2 Thes 3:16 ~ shun those acting not according to tradition

 

[swnunley]

Ok, last one - to the moderators, please excuse my excessive usage of bandwidth and disk space.

Confirmation
Acts 19:5-6 ~ baptized, Paul imposed hands, rcvd Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-17 ~ laid hands upon them, rcvd Holy Spirit
2 Cor 1:21-22 ~ put seal on us & given Holy Spirit in hearts
Eph 1:13 ~ you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
Heb 6:2 ~ instruction about baptism and laying on of hands

Holy Orders
Acts 20:28 ~ Holy Spirit appointed you overseers, tend Church
Lk 22:19 ~ Do this in memory of me
Jn 20:22 ~ as Father sent me, I send you; receive Holy Spirit
Acts 6:6 ~ apostles prayed and laid hands on them
Acts 13:3 ~ they laid hands on them & sent them off
Acts 14:22 ~ they appointed presbyters in each church
1 Tim 4:14 ~ grace: imposition of hands of presbyterate
2 Tim 1:6 ~ gift of God you have through imposition of hands
Tit 1:5 ~ appoint presbyters in every town, as I direct you

Matrimony
Mt 19:5 ~ leave father and mother, join wife; 2 become 1 flesh
Mk 10:7-12 ~ what God joined together, no man separate
Eph 5:22-32 ~ union of man/wife image of Christ/Church
1 Thes 4:4 ~ acquire a wife for self in holiness and honor
1 Tim 2:15 ~ she will be saved through motherhood

Anointing the Sick
Mk 6:12-13 ~ anointed w/ oil many sick, cured them
Jm 5:14 ~ presbyters pray over sick, anoint, sins forgiven

 

[maryalene]

Thanks swunley! I’m printing and saving your posts. Great info!

 

[maryalene]

Austin83:

As for my parents, one thing I’m lucky about is that my parents aren’t that devout themselves. They do attend mass usually once every 2 - 3 weeks, but have missed several weeks at a time. .

Out of this whole thread, this is the part that really jumps out at me. I think this is the problem right here. It is also reminds me, as a parent, that it is incumbent on me to teach my children the faith. The job can’t be left to a Catholic school or the parish. It is primarily the parents’ job. I realize that some children leave the Church even after having devout parents who were excellent teachers of the faith, but I think a lot of those who leave grew up without ever learning the basic truths about the Church. And that is very sad.

 

[dennisknapp]

Austin83:

I didn’t realize that there was no official way out. I thought there would be some final process, like writing to your diocease that you are leaving, to absolve you from your responsibilities and beliefs as a Catholic. If that is the case, then I guess the church already doesn’t consider me a Catholic anymore? I would be relieved if that is the case, but now would come the hard part.

As for your comments Millard, yes I have done research for both sides and what the beliefs are, and I feel this Evangel non-denominational Christian church that I now attend are the beliefs I truly want in my religion. Trust me this was not an overnight decision or an easy decision, but it is the right decision for me.

Austin, I came from the other way. I was an Evangelic Protestant who became Catholic. I would say the feelings you are experiencing are something new and wonderful. You see people who are excited and seem sincere. I would say though that this will fade. I was a Evangelical for 15 years before I entered the Catholic Church. My second year as an Evangelical I left my faith because I saw rampant hypocrisy. It seemed to me they talked a good talk, but their lives did not live up to the hype. After a year or so I came back to my faith, not because of a change I witnessed in anyone, but because I understood my faith was not about “them.”

If you can, please look into the beliefs of the earliest Christians. I am asking you to do this because many Christians (including Catholics and Protestants) claim their Church is in line with the bible and therefore in line with what was taught by the earliest Christians. The only way to make sure this is the case (and be objective) is to look into the beliefs of the early Christians and see for your self. There are plenty of sources on the Internet including this one:

ccel.org/fathers2/

There is also a great book that just came out about early Christian thought and practice. It is called *The Spirit of Early Christian Thought : Seeking the Face of God, *by Robert Louis Wilken. I just picked it up and it is already considered a Christian classic.

amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0300105983/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/103-1180004-0538215?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Please, take what I have said into consideration. I want you to be grounded in the truth and not just carried away by perceived excitement.

Peace

 

[reneeville]

Austin,
I am sorry that you would make a comment such as this. I am a convert from protestantism and not that it matters, but I am here legally and not Hispanic. After many years, I could not find any two protestant churches that could agree…doctrinally, theologically, or morally. I, like you, but in reverse (and at 50 years if age ) came to a decision that would affect my family; however, after my eight months of meditative and contemplative prayer, upon my heart was impressed “why are you a protestant Renee?”…and to that, I could only answer …because my family had always been. I yearned for more, I began reading and the more I studied, the more I was convinced that many areas of my spiritual life had been left untended because the churches agenda that I was affiliated with (denom & no- denom) did not include magisterial teaching and only select scripture was shared…and tradition, it was manufactured…like the protestant church was manufactured out of the Reformation.
There is but one Lord, one Church…but thousands of protestant interpretations. How do you know what you are being taught is “the WAY”? Why don’t you believe that the Methodist way is the right way, or the Presbyterian, or the Mormon, or the Assembly of God?
You are in my prayers.

Renee

Austin83:

How many of those 350,000 though are Hispanics who are illegal immigrants or even legal? In my area, the Catholic base has diminished, especially with our Evangel church opening a 2nd place of worship. Our church now has around 10,000 members.

 

[Alfie]

reneeville:

There is but one Lord, one Church…but thousands of protestant interpretations. How do you know what you are being taught is “the WAY”? Why don’t you believe that the Methodist way is the right way, or the Presbyterian, or the Mormon, or the Assembly of God?
You are in my prayers.

Renee

According to the Bible the definition of the church is anyone that is a believer in Jesus Christ.I am a Methodist but I do not place my faith in the Methodist church to save me. It is my relationship with Jesus that saves me not a building or denomination. All three of the protestant denominations that you just mentioned believe in salvation through Christ. What difference does it make if one church believes that divorce is OK and another doesn’t? That still doesn’t prevent someone from going to heaven because one does and the other doesn’t. The Mormons are an anti-Christian cult. Years ago Catholics did not eat meat on Fridays and they believed in St Christopher so different traditions change in your church too but you would not say that that made much difference in your salvation. By the way if you eliminated Jesus from the Catholic church how would you get to heaven? You cannot. All you would be left with would be rituals and doctrine.

 

[Church_Militant]

Alfie:

According to the Bible the definition of the church is anyone that is a believer in Jesus Christ.I am a Methodist but I do not place my faith in the Methodist church to save me. It is my relationship with Jesus that saves me not a building or denomination. All three of the protestant denominations that you just mentioned believe in salvation through Christ. What difference does it make if one church believes that divorce is OK and another doesn’t? That still doesn’t prevent someone from going to heaven because one does and the other doesn’t. The Mormons are an anti-Christian cult. Years ago Catholics did not eat meat on Fridays and they believed in St Christopher so different traditions change in your church too but you would not say that that made much difference in your salvation. By the way if you eliminated Jesus from the Catholic church how would you get to heaven? You cannot. All you would be left with would be rituals and doctrine.

What did Jesus leave us Alfie? According to the New Testament?

Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Pax tecum,

 

[NotWorthy]

Alfie:

What difference does it make if one church believes that divorce is OK and another doesn’t?

What difference does it make if one Church allows Gentiles and one Church doesn’t? Read Acts Chapter 10.

What difference does it make if one Church makes you circumcise and one Church doesn’t? Read Acts Chapter 15.

… striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:3-6

Could it be any clearer that God wanted a unity of Faith with a unity of teaching???

Notworthy