Leaving the church after Mass

[Sarabande]

And yes, at our parish there are some senior citizens who are the worst noise offenders. **I thought people from that generation were raised to not speak above a whisper in church (if you had to speak at all)…but that idea has come and gone. **I have heard about operations, trips, visitors, and shopping while some poor fellow is up front trying to lead the rosary before Mass. The rudeness can be mind boggling.

They were raised like that and I honestly think that most of the time, it has to do with a lack of hearing rather than purposely being loud. I really don’t think they are realizing it. My grandmother was always quiet and didn’t speak above a whisper until her hearing went. I think most of them are like my grandmother.

Now, there are older people who grow to a point that they just don’t care what other people think and do what they want. Then there are also older people who complain and complain about noise from children and babies and then go off and make just as much noise because they don’t think they are being loud or they just don’t care what other people think. I remember someone once yelling to his son when he reminded him to not speak so loudly in the church, “I’m 80. I’ve lived long enough to do what I want now. Don’t tell me what to do.”

 

[Pax2u]

I agree with several posters on this thread.

1. We Catholics smile indulgently and praise God when babies scream and cry during the Mass. We even smile and praise God when toddlers throw tantrums, run down the aisle, and yell out inappropriate comments (“That man in the long robe is fat, mommy!”) Why is it that when elderly people who are lonely, on strong medications, hard-of-hearing, and/or a little mentally confused or even in the throes of early Alzheimer’s or hardening of the arteries, talk loudly, we get angry with them and demand (at least on CAF) that they be respectful and be quiet?!! ** We need to strive to be tolerant and charitable of others who are at ages or life states (meds, diseases, etc.) where they are not aware** that they are creating a disturbance. I can certainly agree that discussion about casinos probably has no place in the nave, but again, we don’t know their situation when it comes to hearing or mental state. Remember that elderly people who are noisy don’t have parents to pick them up and carry them down the aisle and out in to the lobby.

Cat…I don’t think anyone who is posting here is angry at the elderly at Mass or not being tolerant and charitable…if we were intolerant or unkind, we would be telling these people to be quiet, etc. That isn’t happening. I don’t think anyone here would be purposely disrespectful to someone at Mass. What people are expressing is how they may feel Our Lord is being disrespected at Mass or they themselves may feel disrespected at Mass, the challenges of praying in the midst of noise and distraction, and the lack of manners (in some cases). Obviously if someone has mental challenges or is reacting to medications they are not culpable, but being lonely does not give one license to do whatever one wants if it is not the appropriate time/place.

 

[pianistclare]

I agree with several posters on this thread.

1. It would be foolhardy to not do sound checks on mikes that are in use during the Mass. No one is required to arrive in the nave a half hour before Mass, but all of us are required to be at the actual Mass. IMO, an overly-loud mike or a burst of feedback is much more disturbing than a simple “Test Test” BEFORE the Mass begins.
2. If everyone in the choir is wearing a mike, then the congregation should assume that someone with expertise in amplified sound must have recommended this. Many of the church buildings, especially the clamshells, have dreadful acoustics with dead spots throughout the nave. I actually think that some of these church buildings should be torn down and rebuilt with architecture that is more conducive to sound. Why should a choir WASTE–that’s right, WASTE!–(your) money and time purchasing music, rehearsing it, paying a director and sometimes an accompanist–and then sing it and half the people in the nave can’t even hear it?
3. We Catholics smile indulgently and praise God when babies scream and cry during the Mass. We even smile and praise God when toddlers throw tantrums, run down the aisle, and yell out inappropriate comments (“That man in the long robe is fat, mommy!”) Why is it that when elderly people who are lonely, on strong medications, hard-of-hearing, and/or a little mentally confused or even in the throes of early Alzheimer’s or hardening of the arteries, talk loudly, we get angry with them and demand (at least on CAF) that they be respectful and be quiet?!! ** We need to strive to be tolerant and charitable of others who are at ages or life states (meds, diseases, etc.) where they are not aware** that they are creating a disturbance. I can certainly agree that discussion about casinos probably has no place in the nave, but again, we don’t know their situation when it comes to hearing or mental state. Remember that elderly people who are noisy don’t have parents to pick them up and carry them down the aisle and out in to the lobby.
4. Many of the Catholic churches do NOT have any place for the choir or cantors to practice except the choir loft. And many choir directors will attest that many of the choir members miss the rehearsals held during the week, and that their reasons for missing are legitimate and unavoidable (e.g., working, caring for children or elderly family, sick). It may be distracting to have a choir running through music before a Mass, but it would be a lot more distracting if the choir fell apart musically during the Mass, and people didn’t know the music. My suggestion is that if you feel you must arrive at Mass very early for personal worship and meditation/prayer (this is not required), and the choir disturbs you, then perhaps a pair of earplugs would help you. Pray for your choir and be glad that they are practicing.
5. Many Catholic churches do not have any place for people to talk after Mass except the parking lot. Not an option when it is very hot or very cold. Almost all churches have some kind of fellowship hall–in their basement. This is difficult for elderly people. Again, I personally think that a lot of Catholic churches should either be torn down and re-built, or have major remodeling work so that at least there are BATHROOMS on the same floor as the nave! (Bathrooms are a major gathering place for women, BTW, and having bathrooms on the same floor as the nave would probably eliminate at least some of the chit-chat in the nave.)

sigh.
But when did common courtesy become extinct?
All of the things that people have posted are in the extreme cases.
Not “a simple test-test”.
The assumption that everyone is intolerant or churches are ill equipped is not warranted.

Bad behavior is just that. It’s the very idea that everyone needs to be excused of everything has made it what it is today.

Don’t you think the people who post here actually understand their own parish situations?

I guess we’re just perennially wrong.

 

[Brendan_64]

I actually think that some of these church buildings should be torn down and rebuilt with architecture that is more conducive to sound.

And build more modern monstrosities?

1. We Catholics smile indulgently and praise God when babies scream and cry during the Mass. We even smile and praise God when toddlers throw tantrums, run down the aisle, and yell out inappropriate comments (“That man in the long robe is fat, mommy!”)

Do we? Toddlers throwing tantrums and running down the aisle while their parents just stand by and watch isn’t something to smile about. It’s only in the past 20 years that this sort of this has been widespread, and is often (in my opinion) an indication that the parent is unwilling to discipline their child properly.

Again, I personally think that a lot of Catholic churches should either be torn down and re-built, or have major remodeling work so that at least there are BATHROOMS on the same floor as the nave! (Bathrooms are a major gathering place for women, BTW, and having bathrooms on the same floor as the nave would probably eliminate at least some of the chit-chat in the nave.)

Perhaps people could respect the fact that a church is a church, not a social meeting hall. Are people really incapable of going anywhere without feeling the need to natter incessantly? If you want to chat, then do it on the church steps. If it’s raining, bring an umbrella, if it’s cold, wear a warm coat. How did people cope in the past without churches providing people with a ‘natter room’?

There are far better ways of spending the parish funds than to build places so that people can have a natter with their friends. Maybe if some people could just respect the fact that they’re in a church and that it is a place for prayer and contemplation, then that would be a more cost effective way of solving the problem?

 

[ProVobis]

1. It would be foolhardy to not do sound checks on mikes that are in use during the Mass. No one is required to arrive in the nave a half hour before Mass, but all of us are required to be at the actual Mass. IMO, an overly-loud mike or a burst of feedback is much more disturbing than a simple “Test Test” BEFORE the Mass begins.

Personally I would prefer a nice organ prelude or postlude.

Whatever happened to those anyway?

 

[EasterJoy]

Cat;11676028:

I agree with several posters on this thread.

1. We Catholics smile indulgently and praise God when babies scream and cry during the Mass. We even smile and praise God when toddlers throw tantrums, run down the aisle, and yell out inappropriate comments (“That man in the long robe is fat, mommy!”) Why is it that when elderly people who are lonely, on strong medications, hard-of-hearing, and/or a little mentally confused or even in the throes of early Alzheimer’s or hardening of the arteries, talk loudly, we get angry with them and demand (at least on CAF) that they be respectful and be quiet?!! ** We need to strive to be tolerant and charitable of others who are at ages or life states (meds, diseases, etc.) where they are not aware**

that they are creating a disturbance. I can certainly agree that discussion about casinos probably has no place in the nave, but again, we don’t know their situation when it comes to hearing or mental state. Remember that elderly people who are noisy don’t have parents to pick them up and carry them down the aisle and out in to the lobby.

Cat…I don’t think anyone who is posting here is angry at the elderly at Mass or not being tolerant and charitable…if we were intolerant or unkind, we would be telling these people to be quiet, etc. That isn’t happening. I don’t think anyone here would be purposely disrespectful to someone at Mass. What people are expressing is how they may feel Our Lord is being disrespected at Mass or they themselves may feel disrespected at Mass, the challenges of praying in the midst of noise and distraction, and the lack of manners (in some cases). Obviously if someone has mental challenges or is reacting to medications they are not culpable, but being lonely does not give one license to do whatever one wants if it is not the appropriate time/place.

It is not my intention to single anyone out. I mean that the church shouldn’t be treated like an empty theatre when members of the faithful on their knees are quite obvious to most people who are being loud, if they would take the time to notice. It is worth noting as you have, though, that some of those who are disruptive are that way because they aren’t in a condition to be that aware, and it isn’t always obvious who that is or why. Forbearance is good, but with education and a few gentle reminders, sometimes a little less forbearance is demanded.

 

[Brendan_64]

Pax2u;11676223:

Forbearance is good, but with education and a few gentle reminders, sometimes a little less forbearance is demanded.

 

[Lormar]

That would be nice, but it doesn’t seem to happen. Inside the church after Mass sounds more like a noisy parish fair. Many people seem to not even attempt to talk in lowered voices.

 

[Lormar]

And build more modern monstrosities?

Do we? Toddlers throwing tantrums and running down the aisle while their parents just stand by and watch isn’t something to smile about. It’s only in the past 20 years that this sort of this has been widespread, and is often (in my opinion) an indication that the parent is unwilling to discipline their child properly.

Perhaps people could respect the fact that a church is a church, not a social meeting hall. Are people really incapable of going anywhere without feeling the need to natter incessantly? If you want to chat, then do it on the church steps. If it’s raining, bring an umbrella, if it’s cold, wear a warm coat. How did people cope in the past without churches providing people with a ‘natter room’?

There are far better ways of spending the parish funds than to build places so that people can have a natter with their friends. Maybe if some people could just respect the fact that they’re in a church and that it is a place for prayer and contemplation, then that would be a more cost effective way of solving the problem?

That’s just it. We’ve become too accommodating to everyone. And everyone expects to be accommodated. Consideration for others is quickly becoming a relic of the past. Everyone has the “right” to do whatever.

 

[Elizium23]

There are far better ways of spending the parish funds than to build places so that people can have a natter with their friends. Maybe if some people could just respect the fact that they’re in a church and that it is a place for prayer and contemplation, then that would be a more cost effective way of solving the problem?

One of the weightiest responsibilities as parish receptionist is my role in the scheduling of facilities for various parish activities and events. We have a relatively large parish campus, with an attached school, a full-blown social hall, commercial kitchen, rectory and convent with meeting space. There is continually a good amount of contention for meeting spaces and times. I am not directly responsible for conflict resolution, all I do is take the approved forms and enter them into the computer and the whiteboard calendar. But I am the middleman for the process through which facilities are approved. My boss the parish manager, and her boss the pastor, are very wise stewards of time and money, and they usually succeed in finding appropriate resolutions for ministries seeking to meet on the parish grounds. It is my belief that this is a very important aspect of parish management. Groups should have meeting space available, especially for prayer and spiritual development, to foster fellowship among parishioners and contribute to a vibrant, living community of love in Christ.

It is interesting that the Rebuilt approach to meeting space is to first break everyone into small groups, no “para-Church organizations” like Knights of Columbus or Legion of Mary, just small special-interest groups of 6-12, and then have them all meet in members’ homes. This is a novel solution in the time and place of sprawling parish facilities in urban settings where it is often a long trip to go visit other parishioners. It is advantageous in many ways, taking a lot of responsibility off the parish staff for the abovementioned contention and administrative load of scheduling and calendaring. It would be a disadvantage for someone like me, whose home is small and wholly unsuitable for group meetings, and who uses the bus for all transportation, whose parish church is conveniently located on a bus route while private homes are not.

So there is no perfect solution. Maybe the best thing is a middle way, where some groups meet in members’ homes and some of the more popular ones find meeting space at the parish. How does your parish manage all the meeting space and times?

 

[Brendan_64]

That’s just it. We’ve become too accommodating to everyone. And everyone expects to be accommodated. Consideration for others is quickly becoming a relic of the past. Everyone has the “right” to do whatever.

And it seems, if you don’t respect the right of others to disturb you, then you’re being intolerant? It seems that tolerance is a one-way process. Often it seems that respecting the ‘rights’ of people to pray in relative quiet is something that is not required.

 

[pianistclare]

And it seems, if you don’t respect the right of others to disturb you, then you’re being intolerant? It seems that tolerance is a one-way process. Often it seems that respecting the ‘rights’ of people to pray in relative quiet is something that is not required.

Well said. You’ve cut to the heart of the matter, my friend. It’s not about intolerance. it’s about why people go to church. Hopefully, it’s to pray. Before Mass, during Mass, after Mass.
Not to the exclusion of joy, but to the direction of our attention. I happen to see my friends there, but I go to encounter my One True Friend.
Peace to you.
Clare

 

[retire_early]

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa! :imsorry:

Yes, I’ve become one of the blabbermouths after Mass. Easter Joy, thanks for starting this thread. I firmly resolve to mend my ways.

I didn’t used to…really, I didn’t! Its just that I’ve been in the parish for 20+ years now and seems like I happen to catch everyone’s eye as we’re heading out the door and for some darn reason, so many people seem to like me and want to embrace or talk with me and I with them. Hm-m-m-m…just too lovey-dovey in my old age, I guess.

And get a load of this…everytime I notice someone staying after, on their knees, trying to pray after Mass, I tell myself…“Oops…they’re trying to pray…geesh…I better move on outa here…get outa their way” and then start scurrying towards the door.

Every Sunday! (You’d think I’d remember and correct myself)

 

[Brendan_64]

And get a load of this…everytime I notice someone staying after, on their knees, trying to pray after Mass, I tell myself…“Oops…they’re trying to pray…geesh…I better move on outa here…get outa their way” and then start scurrying towards the door.

Selfish people aren’t they? I mean, expecting to find some time for quiet prayer in a church. They should ‘get with the programme’ and stop being so selfish and inward looking.

 

[Lormar]

Selfish people aren’t they? I mean, expecting to find some time for quiet prayer in a church. They should ‘get with the programme’ and stop being so selfish and inward looking.

Usually, and sad to say, my husband and I are the only two who stay to pray and make a thanksgiving after Mass. On occasion, another man stays behind to pray the Stations of the Cross. Our parish church is wide and roomy. But, for the life of me, I don’t understand why those who insist on talking after Mass inside the church instead of going out to the “gathering space” decide to stand either along side of our pew or directly behind it (we sit in the last pew). Last week one older man yelled (yes, yelled!!!) to his wife who was standing in a pew and talking to another lady that he was going over to the parish hall for pancakes.

In our parish, this is the way it is. Our two priests lead the way in this, so it would do no good to say anything as they do it themselves. We are the ones who look like archaeological specimens to be sure.

 

[retire_early]

Usually, and sad to say, my husband and I are the only two who stay to pray and make a thanksgiving after Mass. On occasion, another man stays behind to pray the Stations of the Cross. Our parish church is wide and roomy. But, for the life of me, I don’t understand why those who insist on talking after Mass inside the church instead of going out to the “gathering space” decide to stand either along side of our pew or directly behind it (we sit in the last pew). Last week one older man yelled (yes, yelled!!!) to his wife who was standing in a pew and talking to another lady that he was going over to the parish hall for pancakes.

In our parish, this is the way it is. Our two priests lead the way in this, so it would do no good to say anything as they do it themselves. We are the ones who look like archaeological specimens to be sure.

On behalf of all the blabbermouth socializers, I truly do apologize.
One solution might be to lead by example. Sit in the front pew area and kneel after the recessional. You might pick up a few followers who think there’s going to be Exposition and Benediction right away!

 

[retire_early]

Selfish people aren’t they? I mean, expecting to find some time for quiet prayer in a church. They should ‘get with the programme’ and stop being so selfish and inward looking.

I recognize your humor, Brendan, but honest to Pete! I really am embarrassed at myself, disturbing their prayer. If I remember correctly, back in my childhood, people did not chatter like they do these days at the end of Mass. We filed out, then we children started poking each other and whooping it up the parking lot while the grown-ups exchanged pleasantries.

 

[Lormar]

On behalf of all the blabbermouth socializers, I truly do apologize.
One solution might be to lead by example. Sit in the front pew area and kneel after the recessional. You might pick up a few followers who think there’s going to be Exposition and Benediction right away!

I don’t find you amusing, and I don’t think any Catholic should make a joke about Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament and Benediction.

 

[retire_early]

I don’t find you amusing, and I don’t think any Catholic should make a joke about Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament and Benediction.

Huh?

I wasn’t being amusing. What in the world? Where’s the joke? I thought it would be wonderful for an example to be set. Is the smiley face the wrong smiley face? (I’m not wearing my glasses, so can’t see them too well).

At two of the neighboring churches I attend, they do have Exposition and Benediction right after Mass sporadically, and some folks, who might have left right after Mass did exactly that…kneel down and pray because others did.

 

[Lormar]

Huh?

I wasn’t being amusing. What in the world? Where’s the joke? I thought it would be wonderful for an example to be set. Is the smiley face the wrong smiley face? (I’m not wearing my glasses, so can’t see them too well).

At two of the neighboring churches I attend, they do have Exposition and Benediction right after Mass sporadically, and some folks, who might have left right after Mass did exactly that…kneel down and pray because others did.

I’m sorry that I misunderstood your post.

Fortunate for you that there are two churches in your area that have Exposition and Benediction. I don’t think we have one parish in our diocese that does that.