Leaving the Church

[jonbhorton]

Thank you Bartolome Casas for reminding our zealous brethren of this grace-filled teaching of Christ. Many would do well to consider what attracts fellow Christians (including many former Roman Catholics) to Protestant/“tongues-speaking” churches.

The Church recognizes the Holy Spirit is active in non-Catholic churches. Much of their worship and preaching can edify even a strong Roman Catholic’s faith.

And sex exists in adulterous relationships. It doesn’t make it right… even if “she totally loves me”.

ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants

The Socialist Review… err… National Catholic Review, in the above link, outlines how utterly un-Catholic this line of thinking is by embracing it totally.

The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.

In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.

Where, pray tell, do the ones blaming their leaving on lack of tradition go? Not Protestant if that is the reasoning.

The non-traditional ones, they just seem to go wherever “the Spirit leads them”. I find it odd that the Holy Spirit would divide the Church and purposefully make enemies of the Church, and cause people to deny the perpetual virginity of Mary, her Immaculate Conception, etc. Impossible in fact. No, this can’t be the Holy Spirit’s work. This is the work of the Devil. Protestantism is a bad thing.

In other words, even the leftists admit that people just want to have an a la carte faith and religion and thus leave the true Church.

It just goes down hill from there as it seems most become anti-Catholic in full effect.

 

[GraceDK]

Tongues is one of the signs in the Acts of the Apostles. There, it involves speaking in languages unknown to oneself, for the purpose of evangelization, or in “spiritual languages” unknown to anybody for the purpose of prayer. It is the hallmark of Charismatic and Pentecostal Christians, IMS.

Indeed. And the Church is charismatic by nature.

Although S. Paul spoke in tongues, he never taught that everybody would, or should seek to do so. A church where all are urged to pray in tongues is probably a good one to stay out of, IMNAAHO.

The Lord said to His apostles: "These signs will follow those who believe. They will speak in tongues… " And Paul says that even though not all will have this gift, it is a gift in the Christian congregation and its to be used for the good of the individual and/or the fellowship. I think I can then agree with you, that if everyone is demanded to speak in tongues its wrong, but to be in congregations where these gifts for common benefit are not welcomed is just as bad… so we should take out the plank in our own eye as Catholics, before we seek to take out the splinter in the eye of our Evangelical brothers. They emphazise the gifts of our Lord the Holy Spirit too much at times, while we often dont have enough faith to ask for them…

Interestingly, besides tongues speakers, the NT Church also had tongues interpreters". This “gift” seems to have fallen by the wayside.

**Not everywhere… However, even Paul dealt with that when he said, if you speak in tongues, ask also to receive the gift of interpreting it.

I always remember the great Pentecostal preacher David du Plessis. He said to his audiences from traditional churches: “You say that tongues is the least of all gifts… well then, why don’t we start with it?” **

ICXC NIKA

 

[may_they_be_one]

And sex exists in adulterous relationships. It doesn’t make it right… even if “she totally loves me”.

ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants

The Socialist Review… err… National Catholic Review, in the above link, outlines how utterly un-Catholic this line of thinking is by embracing it totally.

Where, pray tell, do the ones blaming their leaving on lack of tradition go? Not Protestant if that is the reasoning.

The non-traditional ones, they just seem to go wherever “the Spirit leads them”. I find it odd that the Holy Spirit would divide the Church and purposefully make enemies of the Church, and cause people to deny the perpetual virginity of Mary, her Immaculate Conception, etc. Impossible in fact. No, this can’t be the Holy Spirit’s work. This is the work of the Devil. Protestantism is a bad thing.

In other words, even the leftists admit that people just want to have an a la carte faith and religion and thus leave the true Church.

It just goes down hill from there as it seems most become anti-Catholic in full effect.

Where’s the love?

Curious if you ever visited a non-Catholic, “spirit-filled” church-- attending with a non-judgmental loving heart? (after all, we’re not supposed to judge those outside the Church) You’ll find many loving people seeking to obey the Lord through the devotion to His Word (the written version).

Obviously they don’t understand (have never been taught) what they’re missing in the Eucharist, etc, just like MANY Catholics I grew up with… and they’re not ashamed of the name of Jesus, unlike MANY Catholics I grew up with.

It’s amazing how interested in and receptive to pondering the fullness of the Faith they are. When you actually worship with them, befriend them, love them, and talk to them about the misconceptions they have about Catholics, they get to experience a new level of discipleship. And we get to help build up the Body, not leave it divided.

Peace, Joy & Love to you.

---

“Father, may they be one so that the world may know you sent me…” John 17:21

 

[GraceDK]

Where’s the love?

Curious if you ever visited a non-Catholic, “spirit-filled” church-- attending with a non-judgmental loving heart? (after all, we’re not supposed to judge those outside the Church) You’ll find many loving people seeking to obey the Lord through the devotion to His Word (the written version).

Obviously they don’t understand (have never been taught) what they’re missing in the Eucharist, etc, just like MANY Catholics I grew up with… and they’re not ashamed of the name of Jesus, unlike MANY Catholics I grew up with.

It’s amazing how interested in and receptive to pondering the fullness of the Faith they are. When you actually worship with them, befriend them, love them, and talk to them about the misconceptions they have about Catholics, they get to experience a new level of discipleship. And we get to help build up the Body, not leave it divided.

Peace, Joy & Love to you.

---

“Father, may they be one so that the world may know you sent me…” John 17:21

Indeed! You are soo right. This is my experience too.

One of my best friends is a Jesus Freak. the first time I met her she bashed the Catholic church infront of some non-believers. I didn’t engage her in battle… just told her to pond a few verses of Scripture (these sisters and brothers LOVE Scripture)… She went and prayed over those… such was her humility.

Fast forward a few weeks, and my new fantastic friend - the same person- prays with me, visits my Church with me and even kneels infront of the Tabernacle while praying with me.

Fast forward a few years, my still-friend confides in me that she used to be jealous of my zeal for the Lord back then when we first met. She now reads Theresa of Avila and hears Catholic worship music All it takes is LOVE and RESPECT from both sides. Then we can value their strengths and they can value ours.

This is not my only experience of the sort. I went and had fellowship with Pentecostals many times… I even pray before the congregation in their church while the Pastor was backing me up. I met a church life there and an open kindness you’d have a hard time finding anywhere.

 

[jonbhorton]

Where’s the love?

Curious if you ever visited a non-Catholic, “spirit-filled” church-- attending with a non-judgmental loving heart? (after all, we’re not supposed to judge those outside the Church) You’ll find many loving people seeking to obey the Lord through the devotion to His Word (the written version).

Obviously they don’t understand (have never been taught) what they’re missing in the Eucharist, etc, just like MANY Catholics I grew up with… and they’re not ashamed of the name of Jesus, unlike MANY Catholics I grew up with.

It’s amazing how interested in and receptive to pondering the fullness of the Faith they are. When you actually worship with them, befriend them, love them, and talk to them about the misconceptions they have about Catholics, they get to experience a new level of discipleship. And we get to help build up the Body, not leave it divided.

Peace, Joy & Love to you.

---

“Father, may they be one so that the world may know you sent me…” John 17:21

I grew up between Methodist, Baptist, and evangelical non-denominational. I know these people as I am a recent convert via actual study, not some mystical feeling that might be gas.

You’re a cradle Catholic, you don’t know these people like I do. They will reel one in with “Jesus” and proceed to trash Mary later on, the Pope, etc.

 

[GraceDK]

I grew up between Methodist, Baptist, and evangelical non-denominational. I know these people as I am a recent convert via actual study, not some mystical feeling that might be gas.

You’re a cradle Catholic, you don’t know these people like I do. They will reel one in with “Jesus” and proceed to trash Mary later on, the Pope, etc.

What a bunch of bogus… I grew up Lutheran and spent years also in Pentecostalism and Messianic Judaism… I never ever heard anyone trash Mary.

You are into generalizing… “dont know these people like I do”

• Well I do mister, and you are not being fair.

Some people could also say what **all **Catholics believe based on a few observations…

 

[Geaux_LSU]

To the OP: I know many good Christians that are outside of the Catholic Church, and I know some Catholics inside the Church that are immoral and live like the Devil. God doesn’t judge us by our physical location, but by the state of our hearts . Pray for your friend to bask in the love of Jesus, whatever church she may be in at the moment; and then, pray that her mind will be opened to see the fullness of the faith.

To others on this board [you know who you are]: Now I wasn’t raised Catholic (non-denominational), but by God’s grace I discovered the Eucharistic worship of the Catholic faith. To me, this doesn’t conflict with the sermon-centered practice of my former church, but rather completes it. I sympathize with, but do not condone, those Catholics who left the Church because “they weren’t getting spiritually fed.” Before we go on to condemn them as heretics and schismatics we need to understand why they left: they felt a serious concern that they weren’t getting the proper guidance needed to walk out their Christian faith. If they were getting properly instructed and shown the attention needed to walk out their faith more perfectly, then I don’t believe they would have left the Church. Because of this, the clergy needs to re-double their efforts to better minister to their flock. We need more Francis of Assisi’s and John Chrysostoms in the Church.

 

[ltwin]

Interestingly, besides tongues speakers, the NT Church also had tongues interpreters". This “gift” seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Actually it hasn’t. In the Pentecostal churches I’ve been in, the interpretation of tongues is a gift in regular operation. Though I can’t speak for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.