Leaving the ELCA

[Reuben_J]

Well, I think, as in many things, different Protestant churches will have different track records on how well they keep up with individual members. I’m sure some churches do well keeping in touch and others not so well.

I meant well on this one which is obviously our weakness in the Catholic Church. Probably because of our huge number, my cathedral has more than twenty thousand members, but there is no excuse that we simply have no idea at all with regards to our parishioners unless they make the effort to talk to the clergies. As can be seen, some Catholic parishes have addressed this situation to some extent which reveals the fact that the inadequacy exists.

As for keeping track on who receive Holy Communion, well, we just do not do this and I don’t think we ever will, simply because it is between the communicant and God. I raise a bit of my eyebrow when Lutherans do this but probably this is because of different background on why they should do it.

There are many reasons for not coming up to receive Communion - the main one if one has not gone for Confession of major sin. But that is not to say when a member does not come up for Communion that he/she has major sin unconfessed. There are plethoras of other factors such as having food just before the mass, coming late and missing the readings or simply not in a disposition to receive. They don’t receive because they honor the Communion and refrain from doing so because of unworthiness. Of course human aspect always comes in where people receive because they do not want to be perceived as having unconfessed mortal sin, a misplaced intention altogether.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I meant well on this one which is obviously our weakness in the Catholic Church. Probably because of our huge number, my cathedral has more than twenty thousand members, but there is no excuse that we simply have no idea at all with regards to our parishioners unless they make the effort to talk to the clergies. As can be seen, some Catholic parishes have addressed this situation to some extent which reveals the fact that the inadequacy exists.

As for keeping track on who receive Holy Communion, well, we just do not do this and I don’t think we ever will, simply because it is between the communicant and God. I raise a bit of my eyebrow when Lutherans do this but probably this is because of different background on why they should do it.

There are many reasons for not coming up to receive Communion - the main one if one has not gone for Confession of major sin. But that is not to say when a member does not come up for Communion that he/she has major sin unconfessed. There are plethoras of other factors such as having food just before the mass, coming late and missing the readings or simply not in a disposition to receive. They don’t receive because they honor the Communion and refrain from doing so because of unworthiness. Of course human aspect always comes in where people receive because they do not want to be perceived as having unconfessed mortal sin, a misplaced intention altogether.

I really hadn’t thought about it before this discussion but keeping track of attendance and holy Communion may go back to Lutherans in Europe. A priest is responsible for everyone with the parish boundaries for baptisms, catechism instruction/ confirmation, weddings, funerals, counseling/ social services even if the person isn’t Lutheran or even goes to church. That’s how records were kept. But I have never heard of people being excommunicated for not going to Mass at least 4 x a week or even once a year.

 

[JonNC]

As one who has very little knowledge of how other church functions, this is some of the aspects of Protestantism that always impresses me. That every parisohner is known and monitored is almost non-existence in the Catholic Church. We do have a record of who the parishioners are and perhaps from time to time there would be some kind of census but we wouldn’t know who come and who don’t let alone receiving communion. Catholics who left the faith simply did it by just not coming anymore and probably nobody would know unless their close friends or relatives.

Then other is of course your kind welcome for those who attend the service. I was invited by a friend to attend a talk in a Protestant church and to my surprise, no less than the pastor himself welcomed me. That is something one would not see regulalry in our Catholic church.

Hey Reuben,
I thought that going to confession on a set minimum basis per year (can’t remember the number) was a requirement from receiving the Eucharist? Is that kept track of, or is each individual Catholic responsible for maintaining it on their own?

Jon

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I really hadn’t thought about it before this discussion but keeping track of attendance and holy Communion may go back to Lutherans in Europe. A priest is responsible for everyone with the parish boundaries for baptisms, catechism instruction/ confirmation, weddings, funerals, counseling/ social services even if the person isn’t Lutheran or even goes to church. That’s how records were kept. But I have never heard of people being excommunicated for not going to Mass at least 4 x a week or even once a year.

Oops I meant 4 x a year. Going to communion 4 x a week would be very unusual for a Lutheran!

 

[Miriam1947]

Hey Reuben,
I thought that going to confession on a set minimum basis per year (can’t remember the number) was a requirement from receiving the Eucharist? Is that kept track of, or is each individual Catholic responsible for maintaining it on their own?

Jon

You must confess your sins at least once a year. If you have no mortal sins you do not have to go to confession since venial sins are forgiven with the Confiteor at Mass. Confession is still recommended though. Scrupulous Catholics have to be careful here.

You may not receive communion if you are in mortal sin.

You must receive communion, I believe, at least once a year. Could be twice (Easter and Christmas) so please someone with a source correct me.

 

[Reuben_J]

I really hadn’t thought about it before this discussion but keeping track of attendance and holy Communion may go back to Lutherans in Europe. A priest is responsible for everyone with the parish boundaries for baptisms, catechism instruction/ confirmation, weddings, funerals, counseling/ social services even if the person isn’t Lutheran or even goes to church. That’s how records were kept.

I would commend this whole heartedly. Originally this should be the idea, that priests are our shepherds and therefore look after our needs.

What may prevent this in the Catholic situation simply because of logistic. Too few priests and too many parishioners. Ahh, how the vineyard needs the labourers.

 

[MattofTexas]

Hey Reuben,
I thought that going to confession on a set minimum basis per year (can’t remember the number) was a requirement from receiving the Eucharist? Is that kept track of, or is each individual Catholic responsible for maintaining it on their own?

Jon

My understanding is that this is required, but I don’t think you register your attendance at confession. Catholics can confess their sins to any priest, not just their pastor, so a pastor couldn’t know for certain if someone that he hadn’t seen in a year had been without confession for a year.

 

[Reuben_J]

You must confess your sins at least once a year. If you have no mortal sins you do not have to go to confession since venial sins are forgiven with the Confiteor at Mass. Confession is still recommended though. Scrupulous Catholics have to be careful here.

You may not receive communion if you are in mortal sin.

You must receive communion, I believe, at least once a year. Could be twice (Easter and Christmas) so please someone with a source correct me.

You are right. The Church commandment is at least once a year Confession and Communion.

You are right too. Venial sins are to be confessed when one goes for Confession though the grace of Communion does absolve these. The principle is one Sacrament does not replace the other.

Personally to me, honoring the Holy Communion by not receiving it unless one’s conscience is clear is even a bigger virtue than receiving it when one is in doubt because one is still blessed and nourished by the mass. But this is usually a passionate subject because for many Catholics, mass is not just on Sundays but rather a devotion for them.

God bless.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

I have been to some Lutheran churches that had communion cards in the pews and others that handed out a list that one could sign, but there was nothing indicating that it was mandatory. The the Lutheran church I currently attend we do count the number of people attending a service and the number taking Communion, but it is purely for statistical purposes.

The congregation I attend is associated with the ELCA, but I was a member there before there was an ELCA. I did not leave the ELCA, it left me. I still consider myself Lutheran, but not a member of the ELCA.

Some people have asked that their offerings go to either the church itself or just to the synod, and not the ELCA. This is being honored as long as offering envelopes are used, since there is no way to track loose offering.

 

[Luz_Maria]

You are right. The Church commandment is at least once a year Confession and Communion.

Yes. There are five commandments of the Catholic Church *.

The 2nd Commandment is to confess mortal sins at least once a year, if in danger of death, and if one is going to receive Holy Communion.

The 3rd Commandment is to receive Holy Communion during Easter time (ends on Pentecost). This is called in the U.S. “The Easter Duty”.*

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes. There are five commandments of the Catholic Church *.

The 2nd Commandment is to confess mortal sins at least once a year, if in danger of death, and if one is going to receive Holy Communion.

The 3rd Commandment is to receive Holy Communion during Easter time (ends on Pentecost). This is called in the U.S. “The Easter Duty”.*



Remember those Commandments (Church) as a kid during Catechism classes which we had to memorize by heart. Those were the days. There were two sets of Commandments - the Ten Commandments and the Church Commandments. If I remember correctly, our Catechism then taught six such Commandments but now they are summarized into five.

 

[Luz_Maria]

You are right. The Church commandment is at least once a year Confession and Communion.

[Snip]

Personally to me, honoring the Holy Communion by not receiving it unless one’s conscience is clear is even a bigger virtue than receiving it when one is in doubt because one is still blessed and nourished by the mass. But this is usually a passionate subject because for many Catholics, mass is not just on Sundays but rather a devotion for them.

God bless.

Yes. There are five commandments of the Catholic Church *.

The 2nd Commandment is to confess mortal sins at least once a year, if in danger of death, and if one is going to receive Holy Communion.

The 3rd Commandment is to receive Holy Communion during Easter time (ends on Pentecost). This is called in the U.S. “The Easter Duty”.

Another “reason” the person might not Receive is because s/he has already Received at another Mass that Sunday! I remember a Mass in which I was doing so much (from sacristan, to EMHC and every thing else in between) that I felt dizzy! The Celebrant even asked me when I was celebrating my first Mass ! He and I can joke around! I just had, for my own well-being, to take time to attend a Mass and pray! Then the Pastor saw me and, in private, asked 1. why I was at that Mass (he had already seen me in the sacristy preparing for the previous Mass) and 2. why I had not Received. Then he tells me that because of all the work I had done, I could have Received again! Now he tells me! *