M
mdrummer5
Guest
I understand the thread title but you and Portrait are the ones generalizing and stating that the issues with Led Zeppelin are present in all rock music, which is an assertion without merit.
- Status
M
Mickey
Guest
I am painting nothing broadly. The convesrsation touches on music and lyrics, such as Zeppelin, which negatively affects the soul.
A question was asked about Led Zeppelin. Comments were offered…and as usual, you went on defense with your satirical diatribes. If you want a more broad stroke, see my next post.
A question was asked about Led Zeppelin. Comments were offered…and as usual, you went on defense with your satirical diatribes. If you want a more broad stroke, see my next post.
M
Mickey
Guest
…the demonological effect of music goes far beyond rock music. The devil is adept at manipulating us through many kinds of music including New Age, Jazz, Blues, Hip Hop, Country, Pop, Folk…
Those groups that specifically consecrate their music to Satan, however, are mostly the Heavy Metal and Hard Rock types.
Jim Morrison of The Doors was deeply into Satanism. He died in 1971 at the age of 27. On the back cover of Morrison’s biography, No One Here Gets Out Alive, a eulogy describes him as the “obsessed disciple of darkness who rejected authority in any form, the explorer who probed ‘the bounds of reality to see what would happen’. . . .”
Morrison called the spirits that possessed him “The Lords”. He wrote a book of poetry about them.
Keith Richards of The Stones admitted to Rolling Stone magazine, that their “songs came spontaneously like an inspiration at a seance. The tunes arrived ‘en masse’ as if the Stones as songwriters were only a willing and open medium.”
Mick Jaggar in an interview in a rock magazine talked about how he felt something was possessing him when he was on stage. He also mentioned that in certain songs (I don’t remember which ones) he could feel the audience being possessed by a spirit.
Yoko Ono, wife of the late John Lennon, in a Playboy interview that “they were like mediums. They weren’t conscious of all they were saying, but it was coming through them.”
Jimmy Page from the Led Zeppelin is reported to have said:
A rock concert is really nothing else but a ritual. . . .At a Led Zeppelin concert the aim is to release energy for the performers and the audience. To achieve this you have to tap into the sources of magical power, however, dangerous that may be.
Marc Storace, with the heavy-metal band Krokus, told Circus magazine:
*You can’t describe it except to say it’s like a mysterious energy that comes from the metaphysical plane and into my body. It’s almost like being a medium. . . . *
Little Richard also had similar experiences. Speaking of his source of inspiration he said, “I was directed and commanded by another power. The power of darkness . . . that a lot of people don’t believe exists. The power of the Devil. Satan.”
Joni Mitchell told Time magazine that her music came from her “spirit guide” named “Art.” She said that nothing could keep her from “Art” whenever he called.
Jimi Hendrix believed he was possessed by a spirit. Hendrix’s former girlfriend said in an interview on the Sound Track of the film Jimi Hendrix:
*He used to always talk about some devil or something was in him, you know, and he didn’t have any control over it, he didn’t know what made him act the way he acted and what made him say the things he said, and songs . . . just came out of him. . . .
He was so tormented and just torn apart . . . and I used to talk about my grandmother and all her weird stuff, you know, and he used to talk about us going down there and having some root lady or somebody see if she could drive this demon out of him.*
This is only the beginning of what could be listed as the influences of the devil.
At the moment, I cannot remember which groups literally consecrate their music to Satan, but as the above examples show, it is not necessary to purposely consecrate one’s music to Satan for that music to be from a demonic source.
While musicians like those above may have been involved in the occult or Satanism, or even directly influenced or even possessed, there are tons of music, such as Country, Jazz, Blues, Rap, etc. that serve a demonic agenda in promoting hatred, rebellion, adultery, murder, fornication, etc.
It is no wonder that music is such a powerful force for Satan. There are two reasons:
Those groups that specifically consecrate their music to Satan, however, are mostly the Heavy Metal and Hard Rock types.
Jim Morrison of The Doors was deeply into Satanism. He died in 1971 at the age of 27. On the back cover of Morrison’s biography, No One Here Gets Out Alive, a eulogy describes him as the “obsessed disciple of darkness who rejected authority in any form, the explorer who probed ‘the bounds of reality to see what would happen’. . . .”
Morrison called the spirits that possessed him “The Lords”. He wrote a book of poetry about them.
Keith Richards of The Stones admitted to Rolling Stone magazine, that their “songs came spontaneously like an inspiration at a seance. The tunes arrived ‘en masse’ as if the Stones as songwriters were only a willing and open medium.”
Mick Jaggar in an interview in a rock magazine talked about how he felt something was possessing him when he was on stage. He also mentioned that in certain songs (I don’t remember which ones) he could feel the audience being possessed by a spirit.
Yoko Ono, wife of the late John Lennon, in a Playboy interview that “they were like mediums. They weren’t conscious of all they were saying, but it was coming through them.”
Jimmy Page from the Led Zeppelin is reported to have said:
A rock concert is really nothing else but a ritual. . . .At a Led Zeppelin concert the aim is to release energy for the performers and the audience. To achieve this you have to tap into the sources of magical power, however, dangerous that may be.
Marc Storace, with the heavy-metal band Krokus, told Circus magazine:
*You can’t describe it except to say it’s like a mysterious energy that comes from the metaphysical plane and into my body. It’s almost like being a medium. . . . *
Little Richard also had similar experiences. Speaking of his source of inspiration he said, “I was directed and commanded by another power. The power of darkness . . . that a lot of people don’t believe exists. The power of the Devil. Satan.”
Joni Mitchell told Time magazine that her music came from her “spirit guide” named “Art.” She said that nothing could keep her from “Art” whenever he called.
Jimi Hendrix believed he was possessed by a spirit. Hendrix’s former girlfriend said in an interview on the Sound Track of the film Jimi Hendrix:
*He used to always talk about some devil or something was in him, you know, and he didn’t have any control over it, he didn’t know what made him act the way he acted and what made him say the things he said, and songs . . . just came out of him. . . .
He was so tormented and just torn apart . . . and I used to talk about my grandmother and all her weird stuff, you know, and he used to talk about us going down there and having some root lady or somebody see if she could drive this demon out of him.*
This is only the beginning of what could be listed as the influences of the devil.
At the moment, I cannot remember which groups literally consecrate their music to Satan, but as the above examples show, it is not necessary to purposely consecrate one’s music to Satan for that music to be from a demonic source.
While musicians like those above may have been involved in the occult or Satanism, or even directly influenced or even possessed, there are tons of music, such as Country, Jazz, Blues, Rap, etc. that serve a demonic agenda in promoting hatred, rebellion, adultery, murder, fornication, etc.
It is no wonder that music is such a powerful force for Satan. There are two reasons:
- the first reason for the power of music for Satan is the same reason it is a power for grace and love and God – music is the language of the soul. Thus music that is demonic or negatively oriented strikes at the very soul of a person and lowers it to its base instincts and spiritual bondage. Likewise, music that glorifies God raises the soul to God and brings freedom.
- The Bible alludes that Satan, when he was Lucifer in Heaven was, in essence, the “choir director” of the angels in heaven. This would mean that Lucifer (Satan) has even more intimate knowledge of music and how to manipulate it than other angels. In any event music is a favorite of Satan to seduce us
Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Two things.
First, just because one part of one group is bad doesn’t mean they all are. Yes Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and others had their spiritual “issues” but that does not mean that all rock artists do. There are plenty of Christian rock groups (as I pointed out in a prior post) that lead a Christian lifestyle and do not have the same “problems” that the artists you mention did. This is a simple matter of logic. Some redheads have a lot of freckles, Sherry has a lot of freckels… does that mean she’s a redhead? Of course not… making such an assumption will actually get you a lower score on an IQ test.
Second, you’ve still offered no explanation as to how changing the instruments a song is played with make it bad. So again, take your favorite piece of liturgical music and tell me how it being played instruments usually associated with rock (guitar, bass, drums) and keeping the lyrics the same of course would make it bad and somehow be associated with Satan.
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Is that from a book or from an article available online? I googled a quote from the article and the only other hit beside this thread was someone posting it on another Catholic forum.
M
Mickey
Guest
Did I say that all rock musicians have issues? I may no longer care to listen to rock music, but I do not think I said that. I believe that I heard one time that Jimmy Page was a follower of Allister Crowley, but I do not know if that is true.
Most of the music I listen is a capella sacred Liturgical music. That is my preference. If someone were to put rock instruments to it----I would not listen to it. I usually don’t answer “what if” questions–that’s the best I can do.
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Then perhaps I misunderstood… all of the information you provided seemed to be in support of the idea that all rock music is from Satan. If that’s not the case then I apologize for my misinterpretation. If it’s just a matter of taste then that’s entirely different and reasonable.
As far as my “what if” question. Would you not listen to it because you don’t care for the sound (which is understandable) or is it that you think that because it’s rock music it would be bad?
M
Mickey
Guest
It is from a question and answer session here: saint-mike.org/qa/sw/viewanswer.asp?QID=215
M
Mickey
Guest
In the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Liturgical music is without instruments–it is considered sacred. It is the human voice lifting prayer and worship to the Holy Trinity. I believe it may be similar to Gregorian chant?
M
mdrummer5
Guest
That doesn’t answer my question but I understand your point. Let me ask this way then…
A Christian rock band plays a song that based on the lyrical content is obviously Christian… do you not listen to it because you don’t care for the sound or because you believe it to be bad for no reason other than the genre?
J
JHow
Guest
You also forgot to mention how the Nazis converted everybody to the modern 440 hz A concert pitch (eschewing the more natural 432 hz pitch).
M
Mickey
Guest
Can’t answer. I don’t listen to Christian rock. I remember visiting my sister-in -law because her baptist group was having a huge flea market sale. There was a live band there. They called themselves a “Christian” band but they played music that sound like “death metal”. I could not understand the lyrics. It sent sickening chills up my spine.
But here is an answer from Brother Ignatius for you regarding a similar question.
St. Paul tells us to think upon things that are pure and excellent. This so-called music can hardly qualify.
Any music, of any genre, that focuses on the culture of death, or the occult, or things immoral is not music for the Christian’s ear.
When my daughter was 13 she was into Metal Music. I too did not want this stuff in the house. My daughter admitted that the lyrics of the Metal Music were terrible, but she was still drawn to it.
One day I bought her a tape of a so-called Heavy Metal Christian Band. The music sounded the same to me, but the lyrics were of a Christian nature.
My daughter admitted that the Christian Metal music has good lyrics, nevertheless she would not listen to it.
I asked her why she would not listen to the Christian Metal music when the sound was the same as the regular Metal Music but with better lyrics.
My daughter’s reply was, “There is no power in the Christian Metal!”
This is a profound statement she made. That which has the fingerprints of Satan gives off a sense of power not perceived in the Christian version of things. This power has the power to seduce the soul and to bring bondage and addiction.
One cannot listen to such dark and demonic music without having some effect. You have every right as a parent to be concerned about this type of music. Our kids may like music we do not like and we have to live with that, but it is another thing altogether when that music is so profoundly dark, even evil, and certainly indulging the culture of death.
God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary
J
JHow
Guest
The problem I have with the “rock, blues, jazz, country… is music of the devil” theory, is that you can’t explain it at the level of the music. You can point to lyrical content, you can point to the musicians’ lifestyles (which are never great, look at Amy Grant, for example, or Larry Norman, just to pick some Christian rock examples), but you lose me when you get to the music itself. Why is 12-bar blues structure inherently evil? Why is certain instrumentation “bad”? Why is the “mi contra fa” diabolical? The one that really cracks me up is the “rhythym of intercourse” critique - get out the metronome, hand the missus a stopwatch and test that theory!
M
Mickey
Guest
Is that what brother Ignatius meant? I do not know.
J
JHow
Guest
Absent lyrics and information about a musician’s or band’s lifestyle, how can you tell that music is diabolical?
Is it because there is a cultural association that you have with a certain musical style that tells you so? Or is it the music itself? As I read Brother Ignatius comment, I think he would say that the music itself is bad.
I am asking what musical criteria can be advanced that demonstrate the badness of the music?
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Thanks!
M
mdrummer5
Guest
This to me sounds more like a matter of personal taste which again is perfectly understandable. However the bottom line is this… you can not say that all rock music is bad simply because it is rock music which is what you’re implying and others (namely Portrait) are boldy asserting as fact. This is no different than any other form of prejudice.
For instance let’s say the lyrics you couldn’t understand were the following…
Give me the strength to stand apart from all my fears
And stay true to all that I hold deep inside my heart
Hide me undernearth your wings
You are the shelter we all need
With every breath I take You are there stand aside free me
You have bled for me now I bleed for You
With all my emptiness that I held I will never be the same
Put me to rest and renew my soul
We clench our fists and bare our arms
Only to cry out in Your presence
oh God to all who try to end my life
I stand firm and now I’ve been set free saved by Him
Whom I call king
Through Him I will always remain the same
I will always remain the same
You can’t break me
This is a song from the band War of Ages which is a metal band. Now… understandably you don’t care for the sound but in your andecdote you said “Christian” band as if you found it questionable. Now that I’ve shown you lyrics from a metal band who’s lyrical content is clearly Christian (even if you can’t understand it while it’s being performed which is an entirely separate issue) how would you NOT classify them as Christian?
J
Joe_5859
Guest
She obviously never heard Theocracy.
That’s really just an anecdotal argument, though. When I was 13, I thought Stryper (a Christian “hair” metal band) was the neatest thing since sliced bread. I have always enjoyed Christian metal when it is done well. I never saw a disconnect.
Now I remember where I heard the name Brother Ignatius Mary before. I thought it sounded familiar. I can appreciate his opinion, but he’s not the first person I would go to for (name removed by moderator)ut on something like this.
J
JHow
Guest
Notwithstanding, the Brother’s argument is not explanatory. He simply asserts that there is demonic music and that it can have a bad influence on your soul. He does not provide a theory (in the linked materials, anyway) as to how this works, nor what it is about the music (as distinct from lyrics, lifestyle, culture, or marketing hype) that makes it demonic.
“Language of the soul”? What does that mean? Part 2 of his explanation would be a reason to mistrust all music.
N
Ne_OrangeKnight
Guest
Okay, this is just ridiculous. First, you can’t “dogmatically” assert anything, since you are presumably not the pope or even a bishop. Since the Holy See hasn’t seen fit to categorically make Led Zeppelin a mortal sin, you certainly can’t.
Moreover, if we’re looking at rock and pop music since its inception (somewhere in the 1940s or 1950s, call it 1950, for ease of argument), let’s see how Satanic, uncouth, and drugged-out it really is. Lyrics linked via the song title.
How about 1964’s Chapel of Love by The Dixie Cups. Pretty raunchy, huh? No. Not at all.
The Eagles are one of the most successful rock bands of all time. How many people is Desperado going to lead down the path of sin and vice?
Or one from those wicked Led Zeppelin boys themselves. Fool in the Rain. What would be harmful in listening to this song?
Rather, consider Romans 14:13-14 :
“Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.”
If you don’t think that you can handle Led Zeppelin without stumbling, fine, don’t listen to it. But I myself am in no danger of falling away from Christ because I listen to “Paperback Writer” from time to time.
Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
- Status