Leeann, a question for you and anyone else who might like to answer.

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
The Roman Catholic church circumavents the Scriptures by denying married catholic men from being bishops. No church or man has the authority to circumavent the Scriptures.

adrift
First of all we are the Catholic Church. No one has the right to be ordained. You are misinterpreting scripture and ignoring those scriptures that give the right to the Church to regulate. Your premise is unsound so your whole argument is based on sand. It is based on man’s not God’s reasoning.

Not so. The inspired-inerrant Scriptures are extremely clear on this issue. All you can do is to say i’m misinterpreting the Scriptures but you have not demonstrated this is the case by studying I Timothy 3:2-4. You need to find some way to interpret these verses that state clearly that a bishop is to married and manage his chidlren well.
Secondly there is no verse in Scripture that gives any church or individual the authority to circumavent the Scriptures.

 

[guanophore]

The Roman Catholic church forbids married catholic men from being even considered to be bishops or even priests because of they are married.

This is not true. However, for the most part, if God wants a man of the Roman Rite to become a priest or a bishop, such a man will have the gift of celibacy. The Church prefers to choose for priests and bishops from among those who are called to this gift. More than all other Rites in the Catholic Church, the Latin, most common in the West, is in dire need of the spirtual gift that flow from celibacy, as demonstrated by Jesus and Paul.

 

[guanophore]

I’m not addressing “exceptions” but the rule. If a married Roman catholic man wants to become a bishop can he?

Sure!

God will provide where He has called. Such a man will find himself widowed, and called to a life of celibacy. Nothing is impossible with God.

But, you did not explain why all the women in your faith community do not wear veils. Why do you contradict the scripture?

Why are half of your people not missing an eye, or a hand? Do you believe that people in your faith community have never sinned by looking lustfully, or stealing?

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

Indeed they did, and Jesus affirmed that the claim was valid. He said:

Matt 23:1-4
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; 3 therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.

“Moses seat” is the authority appointed by Christ. Since the Pharisees and scribes did not receive Him, the teaching authority was transferred from them to His Apostles. He gave them His own authority to teach.

This is why the Reformation was such a great sin. Jesus was clear that the authority appointed by God should be obeyed, even if they were hypocrites. God rewards those who obey Him, even if they suffer corrupt leadership.

Two parts here.

1. Is it not possible that the Reformation was similar to the Spiritual revival that took place during the time of Christ?
2. History is full of brave men and women who violated established law and authority. In the last 50 years, we can look at Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King and his fellow fighters for civil rights, who routinely violated law. After all, Dr. King penned the famous “Letter from a Birmingham Jail”, not “from a Birmingham boarding house”.

Or we can go all the way back to the Israelite midwives during the time of slavery in Egypt; they were ordered by the existing earthly authority to kill all the male newborns and yet did not (then lied about why they wouldn’t or couldn’t). In fact, it’s written that God rewarded them; Moses was one of the children spared by their refusal to carry out orders. Daniel violated the edicts of Nebuchadnezzar and was rewarded for it.

I’m not saying for a second that Jesus was mistaken or was speaking falsely; I’m saying that our interpretation needs a different context to fully and properly understand.

 

[Leeann]

I’m finding this very interesting… the only two people who have responded to this thread are apparently Catholics… Leeann, who is on the site tonite as evidenced by her posts has not responded. Not picking on you Leeann…just curious as to why you and other non-Catholic Christians have neglected to answer my question. Seems that a lot of people like to “bandy” these words (Holy Spirit, guided by, etc) but few desire to explain their feelings or impressions where this issue is concerned.

Is the crux of your existence based solely on …whatever stokes your furnace?

HI ROBHOM!!!

I can’t believe I even found this thread!!!

I’ve just spent the last 2 hours finishing some responses to 4 other posters on another thread and then when I went to actually post them…the thread was closed as it had “reached its limit?”

(I didn’t even know that happened…that there was a limit.)

Anyway…I thought I’d search for a thread on the Catholic church itself, with regards to its “authority” or “being the one true church”…and I keyed in the search window…something to *that *affect - and up popped this list of threads and as I was scrolling down - I saw your “thread”. How weird is that?

I’m still learning how to navigate around here…but there’s no way that I’d *ever know *that this thread even existed if I hadn’t decided to search because the other one I was in - closed.
I’d just still be in there…can’t handle more than one/*maybe *2 at a time!

I’ve got to take a break…eyes are spinning and a bit tired…but will look at the posts that are here and eventually post here for sure.

 

[Leeann]

Because she has been posting on this particular forum this evening and even since I posted this question.

It seems that there are some people who do this, and others that do that…

She herself brought up this issue as a defense in several different posts then deflected questions or ignored them after she broached the subject…so I am asking directly, but it seems I’m not getting an answer…

RobHom - What!???

I haven’t been in this “thread” - I’ve been catching up on responses to posters on “another thread” - or “another forum”??(terminology??)
but while I was working on my posts (I usually copy the larger postings and do them on a Word doc…then copy and post it back into the “Message Box” )…that “topic” I guess I’ll say…closed, as it was up to 1,000+ posts or something.

How would **I **know that you had started **this **particular thread or were **even in **this particular “thread”…or “forum”…???

 

[Leeann]

You made mention of being guided by the Holy Spirit at times… and I believe it was in relation to when reading the Bible.

The question is: If you believe that you are being guided by the Holy Spirit, how do you know with certainty that it is specifically the Holy Spirit, and not another spirit…even one of a nefarious nature?

Its a serious question.

Hi RobHom

First of all, I know in whom I believe, that being Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, lived as man/God here on earth, died on the cross for the salvation of all mankind, resurrected and lives. (and will return…and reign forever)

I believe and understand that the Holy Spirit will always point to Jesus (God) and direct my focus on Him and His truth.

Over the years, it has been brought to my attention….too often I’m ashamed to say, that while I can fool others most of the time and myself some of the time and even those times when I “feel” that I’m being as open and honest with Him as I possibly can be…it has been brought to my attention, that His knowledge of me goes even beyond that.

I can never fool Him…He knows my motives and the intentions of my heart, mind and spirit…stripped bare…and He still loves me.

So with faith and confidence, but with a very naked and humble spirit, I approach His throne of grace in prayer before reading the Bible and ask that He will reveal His truth to me and also that He enable me, by the leading of the HS to be able to understand/comprehend and apply His truth to my life.
(no matter how hard it may be for me to want to accept it - as at times it may not be what I want to hear)

Then there’s the peace that comes.

Phil 4: 6 & 7
6] Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

It’s not just with the Bible, but in every normal day living, when the normal everyday challenges start getting the better of me…and they do a lot……to be able to stop and have the focus brought back to Him…no other spirit would - or could - do that.

 

[Leeann]

To: guanophore

**Originally Posted by justasking4 **
I have no problem using the term you think is most correct. However it still does not change the fact that Trent did “cut off” protestants from the church which would also mean they were condemned since salvation can only be found in the Catholic church. Would this be correct?

Response guanophore:Post #81
No, this is not correct. The Heretics that Trent was addressing had already cut themselves off by abandoning the Apostolic faith. Trent was making clear statements about the error in doctrine that caused this, and warning the faithful that, if they also chose to embrace these heresies, they would also be cut off.

The purpose of this strong response is not to condemn people, but to encourage them to abandon error, and return to the truth, before it is too late.

Regardless of what the Council of Trent was addressing about the heretics, it is true that the Catholic church does indeed state that anyone who does not belong to the Catholic church is not going to obtain salvation.

The following are two excerpts from another thread.

**Originally Posted by Leeann **
Being a member in good standing in the Catholic church **is not **necessary for salvation - but the church claims it is.

Response from guanophore: I am sorry, but you are suffering from an error. This is not the Teaching of the Catholic Church. How did you come to get so twisted in your perceptions of Catholicism?

Response Leeann:

Work of God, Word of God

Everything Catholics need to grow spiritually. This is the work of God Apostolate, where you can find Messages from Jesus, Mary, Scriptures, Word of God, gospels explained, Books, devotions, prayer requests and much more.

www.theworkofgod.org

From the above apologetics website.

The Roman Catholic Church dogmas
Doctrine of Salvation
Catholic Apologetics
Dogmas of the Catholic Church

VI. The Catholic Church

# 20. Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

(note: the “red” is theirs)

 

[ralphinal]

I’m not addressing “exceptions” but the rule. If a married Roman catholic man wants to become a bishop can he?

Let me start by saying that any man who of his own desire wants to be a bishop is more than likely not qualified for the job. God calls men, men do not call themselves.

So, more than likely, no, he is not really being called by God.

However, in the past, men who had been married were Bishops. The current discipline is that marriage is an impediment to the office. The man can be widowed or have had a previous marriage that was annuled. He cannot have children that he is still physically or financially responsible for. Most bishops are older than 40, and have been priests for a while. In the modern era, a man must be a priest first, so there would have to be a married priest who the Holy Spirit leads to the episcopacy. Again, it is not impossible or unheard of, but not likely.

 

[guanophore]

The Roman Catholic church circumavents the Scriptures by denying married catholic men from being bishops. No church or man has the authority to circumavent the Scriptures.

We understand that it seems this way to you. You suffer from many deficiencies that prevent you from understanding. You do not understand the nature of the Church, the nature of the keys, the meaning of binding and loosing, and the difference between doctrine and disciplines.

However, if you want to complain against the Church that Christ founded ( and which produced the Scripture which you think is circumvented) then perhaps you can start out by proving that all the women in your church wear veils, and keep absolutely silent. Perhaps you can prove that they don’t ask any questions other than of their husbands when they get home?

First of all we are the Catholic Church. No one has the right to be ordained. You are misinterpreting scripture and ignoring those scriptures that give the right to the Church to regulate. Your premise is unsound so your whole argument is based on sand. It is based on man’s not God’s reasoning.

I think justasking4 thinks that genital procreation is a requirement to be a good leader in the church. Of course, this rules out Jesus, Paul, and a number of other people…

Not so. The inspired-inerrant Scriptures are extremely clear on this issue. All you can do is to say i’m misinterpreting the Scriptures but you have not demonstrated this is the case by studying I Timothy 3:2-4. You need to find some way to interpret these verses that state clearly that a bishop is to married and manage his chidlren well.
Secondly there is no verse in Scripture that gives any church or individual the authority to circumavent the Scriptures.

Catholics don’t need to “find some way” to interpret these verses. It is clear to us that the Apostle was giving Timothy instructions on how to select worthy men for the office of the Bishop. We know that Paul was not married, and there is no evidence that Timothy was either. Christ Himself affirmed the value of the celibate state, so we understand them in this context.

The fact that Catholics understand this instruction in the light of what those who wrote it meant does not equate to “circumvention”. On the contrary, you have circumvented the Church that Christ founded, which has caused you to misunderstand the writings produced by it.

 

[guanophore]

Two parts here.

1. Is it not possible that the Reformation was similar to the Spiritual revival that took place during the time of Christ?
2. History is full of brave men and women who violated established law and authority. In the last 50 years, we can look at Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King and his fellow fighters for civil rights, who routinely violated law. After all, Dr. King penned the famous “Letter from a Birmingham Jail”, not “from a Birmingham boarding house”.

Or we can go all the way back to the Israelite midwives during the time of slavery in Egypt; they were ordered by the existing earthly authority to kill all the male newborns and yet did not (then lied about why they wouldn’t or couldn’t). In fact, it’s written that God rewarded them; Moses was one of the children spared by their refusal to carry out orders. Daniel violated the edicts of Nebuchadnezzar and was rewarded for it.

I’m not saying for a second that Jesus was mistaken or was speaking falsely; I’m saying that our interpretation needs a different context to fully and properly understand.

Certainly it was high time for a “revival”, and men are always in need of reform. However, it is never right to rebel against the authority appointed by God. The examples you give are from secular venues. Sometimes there are laws of the land that contradict the laws of God, and in such cases, it is necessary to disobey them. the reason Martin (Dr. King) was successful was because he did this in humility, and non-violence. When one studies the history of the Reformation, one does not find this attitude.

 

[Leeann]

**Originally Posted by RobHom **
Because she has been posting on this particular forum this evening and even since I posted this question.

It seems that there are some people who do this, and others that do that…

She herself brought up this issue as a defense in several different posts then deflected questions or ignored them after she broached the subject…so I am asking directly, but it seems I’m not getting an answer…

Hi RobHom

I’ve finally been able to go back and read over all the posts here to catch up a bit and have even been able to respond to a couple….you’ll be happy to see that I responded to yours first.

NOW what I’d really like to do is address this posting of yours above, with particular emphasis on the last paragraph – which I’ve highlighted.

I’ve also **reposted below my reply that was posted **to you in the other thread.
As you can see – I mention that it was a bit “late” – I must have busy answering other replies – however, as you can see – I did answer it.

Apparently you didn’t **SEE **the reply that I posted – because much later on – you asked the same question again. **Post # 676 **(also below).

I only discovered this today/tonight when I went back to see what I had **originally posted **in response to you.

Please note when the “Thread” itself was “closed” by the Monitor…in Post #679.

As for “deflecting questions or ignoring them after I broached the subject” – that is simply not true, as anyone can see, if they should want to confirm what you’ve said by simply visiting the “Sinless Mary” thread.

Re: Sinless Mary

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobHom Post #609
Leeann, I have a very serious question for you:

How do you know that the “spirit that touches your individual life” is the one that enables you to know what is right?

Response by Leeann Post #631

Finally got back to you…hope this helps.

1 John 5
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

(actually quoted to verse 21)

Oct 10, '08, 8:36 pm
RobHom
Senior Member Post # 676 Join Date: June 17, 2005
Location: SW FL
Posts: 1,614

Re: Sinless Mary

And how again do you know that the spirit that is guiding you is the Holy Spirit??

**Oct 10, '08, 9:09 pm **

Michael Francis
Moderator POST #679 Join Date: June 23, 2005
Location: Apologetics, Sacred Scripture
Posts: 11,828

Re: Sinless Mary

Thread closed pending Moderator review.

---

 

[guanophore]

"RobHom:

Leeann, I have a very serious question for you:

How do you know that the “spirit that touches your individual life” is the one that enables you to know what is right?

1 John 5
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

(actually quoted to verse 21)

This quote from scripture does not answer Rob’s question. What makes you think it applies to you?

RobHom:

And how again do you know that the spirit that is guiding you is the Holy Spirit??

 

[adrift]

To: guanophore

From the above apologetics website.

The Roman Catholic Church dogmas
Doctrine of Salvation
Catholic Apologetics
Dogmas of the Catholic Church

VI. The Catholic Church

# 20. Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

(note: the “red” is theirs)

I went to the web site and could not find what you indicate is there.

Nowhere is the Church ever address as Roman. But even if it were this is not an official representation of what the Church states.
Use this link to go to the Catholic Catechism
Link 846-848 is what the Church teaches.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

This got ‘overlooked’ in the plethora of posting yesterday. So I’m reposting it. I think it’s actually pretty important. JA–or anybody else who is complaining that Catholics “don’t follow the Scripture”–I would **love **to have you explain to me the rationale that enables you to act as below.

I’m still waiting to hear why JA can claim that his interpretation is ‘correct’ regarding the ‘must’ marry of bishops, and claim the Catholic Church has ‘forbidden’ this ‘must marry’. . .yet JA disregards or does not follow many Scriptual passages himself.

So, JA. . .are the women in your church veiled, as St. Paul commands? Are they silent?

If not, why not? Is it that you claim that the ‘discipline’ of veiling a woman was not something that was meant 'for all time?" That your church has the ‘option’ or the ‘power’ to interpret Scriptural passages as being either ‘timeless’ or ‘only for a certain time?’
That you or your church have the ‘authority’ to determine whether a passage in Scripture is to be taken ‘literally’ or ‘figuratively’?

If you claim that ‘veiled women’ were only to be held to this command of St. Paul’s for certain times, and not in ‘today’s culture’. . .then how can you claim that the passage regarding whether a bishop has ‘one wife’ is not of the same ilk?

What makes you correct in not having ‘veiled women’, and the Catholic church ‘incorrect’ in not insisting on married bishops?

If you–or your church–can feel ‘led by the Spirit’ such that you can decide that women need not be veiled as Scripture clearly specifies 'at this time–as well as many other ‘choices’ which you have made over what Scripture you find that you will accept as literal, and what figurative, and what ‘interpretation’ you can make to accommodate today’s world. . .why do you object to Catholics and their Church–who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit–doing what you yourself feel perfectly justified in doing?

You can’t have it both ways, you know.

So, does anybody have an answer as to how “Catholics circumvent the Scriptures on ‘married priests.bishops’.”
but Protestants somehow do NOT circumvent on not having veiled women as St. Paul specifically indicates, etc.?

---

 

[Leeann]

To guanophore:

**Quote:
Originally Posted by RobHom **
Leeann, I have a very serious question for you:

How do you know that the “spirit that touches your individual life” is the one that enables you to know what is right?

**Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeann **

1 John 5
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

(actually quoted to verse 21)

This quote from scripture does not answer Rob’s question. What makes you think it applies to you?

As I stated when I originally posted it to RobHom – “hope this helps”. I don’t believe he actually saw the posting or the scripture I posted so he didn’t respond whether it did “help or not”.
I didn’t recopy the whole scripture post here – see brackets in above post – simply for “space” – but I’ll post the rest now.
I believe that it not only applies me, but it applies to you too guanophore and all believers in Jesus Christ, the Father/theSon/theHolySpirit, His birth by a vigirn,His life as man/God on earth, His death, His resurrection.

Posting of scripture cont’d.

7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
[9] If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
[15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[19] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.[21] Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Since coming into this new “thread” (forum?) or this “topic”- I have answered RobHom again, without using scripture, but using my own words. In it I made reference to praying before reading the Bible, seeking His assistance in being able to understand/comprehend and apply His truth to my life and I believe that verses 14 and 15 above apply to that.

 

[RobHom]

By studying the gospel of John together as Christians. Your absence on this bible study on the sayings of Jesus puzzles me.

Your bible and my Bible are not the same. The Word is not the same, thus any interpretation is not going to be the same, and I am not of the habit of “interpreting the Bible” to others. I see this as something akin to an “exercise in futility”.

 

[RobHom]

Hi RobHom

First of all, I know in whom I believe, that being Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, lived as man/God here on earth, died on the cross for the salvation of all mankind, resurrected and lives. (and will return…and reign forever)

I believe and understand that the Holy Spirit will always point to Jesus (God) and direct my focus on Him and His truth.

Over the years, it has been brought to my attention….too often I’m ashamed to say, that while I can fool others most of the time and myself some of the time and even those times when I “feel” that I’m being as open and honest with Him as I possibly can be…it has been brought to my attention, that His knowledge of me goes even beyond that.

I can never fool Him…He knows my motives and the intentions of my heart, mind and spirit…stripped bare…and He still loves me.

So with faith and confidence, but with a very naked and humble spirit, I approach His throne of grace in prayer before reading the Bible and ask that He will reveal His truth to me and also that He enable me, by the leading of the HS to be able to understand/comprehend and apply His truth to my life.
(no matter how hard it may be for me to want to accept it - as at times it may not be what I want to hear)

Then there’s the peace that comes.

Phil 4: 6 & 7
6] Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

It’s not just with the Bible, but in every normal day living, when the normal everyday challenges start getting the better of me…and they do a lot……to be able to stop and have the focus brought back to Him…no other spirit would - or could - do that.

Leeann,

First, thank you for the answer. Yours was the most succinct answer to my question. I appreciate it.

Second, I apologize for having missed your other responses! I did not see them

Peace!!

Rob

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

To guanophore:

As I stated when I originally posted it to RobHom – “hope this helps”. I don’t believe he actually saw the posting or the scripture I posted so he didn’t respond whether it did “help or not”.
I didn’t recopy the whole scripture post here – see brackets in above post – simply for “space” – but I’ll post the rest now.
I believe that it not only applies me, but it applies to you too guanophore and all believers in Jesus Christ, the Father/theSon/theHolySpirit, His birth by a vigirn,His life as man/God on earth, His death, His resurrection.

Posting of scripture cont’d.

7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
[9] If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
[15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[19] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.[21] Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Since coming into this new “thread” (forum?) or this “topic”- I have answered RobHom again, without using scripture, but using my own words. In it I made reference to praying before reading the Bible, seeking His assistance in being able to understand/comprehend and apply His truth to my life and I believe that verses 14 and 15 above apply to that.

What do you make of these verses?

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

 

[guanophore]

I went to the web site and could not find what you indicate is there.

Sorry adrift. I did not post this website. Someone else may have included my username in a quote.

Nowhere is the Church ever address as Roman. But even if it were this is not an official representation of what the Church states.

You are certainly preaching to the choir here. You will find few members of CAF more vociferous than I in stating that the Catholic Church is not “Roman”.