Lenten abstinence from eating meat....obsolete?

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My mom told me not to eat meat today, as its Ash Wednesday and I had forgotten! Why do we not eat meat today, or on Friday’s of lent?

I am also thinking that this discipline is somewhat outdated, since meat used to be considered a luxury, however one can lavishly dine on Lobster, Salmon, Shark, whatever. What are your thoughts on this?

I’m Canadian, so I think we should hold a referendum on this issue (like we do with the french, lol).
 
Well, it is a sacrifice to me.
I LOVE my burgers and steaks and ham etc.
So going a day without meat is a sacrifice for me.
In general, I can’t afford to dine on lobster.
If I feel particularly weak, I may have some tuna with dinner to make sure I get enough protein for the day.

I think not eating flesh meat of animals is a good penance.

And those tempted to avoid penance by dining lavishly on seafood, well, the answer is simple: DON’T. Have a piece of fried cod or something. Nothing lavish about that.

God bless,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
Well, it is a sacrifice to me.
I LOVE my burgers and steaks and ham etc.
So going a day without meat is a sacrifice for me.
In general, I can’t afford to dine on lobster.
If I feel particularly weak, I may have some tuna with dinner to make sure I get enough protein for the day.

I think not eating flesh meat of animals is a good penance.

And those tempted to avoid penance by dining lavishly on seafood, well, the answer is simple: DON’T. Have a piece of fried cod or something. Nothing lavish about that.

God bless,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
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Trust me, i don’t eat lavishly, I was just using that as an example that meat is one of many luxuries, and I wonder how much of a luxury it is today, as compared to the past when this discipline was implemented.
 
The universal norm of the Catholic Church Roman/Latin rite is to abstain from meat on ALL Fridays, and on Ash Wednesday, as well as to fast (one meal plus 2 smaller ‘bites’ that do not add up to one full meal) on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

In the U.S., the Bishops were permitted an indult that required all Catholics of certain ages (14 and up for abstinence, 18-59 for fasting) to fast and abstain on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, and to abstain from meat on Lenten Fridays, AND they’ strongly encouraged’ all Catholics to either continue abstention from meat on the non-Lenten Fridays for a penitential practice or to pick another penitential practice. All Fridays are considered ‘penitential’ days in memory of Our Lord’s suffering and death on Good Friday.

Why? Even if in AD 2007 meat is no longer a ‘luxury’ for some in some places, the idea and rationale behind ‘giving up’ as a penance a thing which is ‘good’ in itself remains. You like seafood and don’t eat meat? Fine. You’ll have no problem observing the ‘letter of the law’. If you want to go further, pick a penance and observe that in addition to already following the ‘minimum’ guidelines, if you wish to please God further.

We have already ‘changed’ the fasting requirements a lot, ostensibly to make it ‘easier’ for people (used to be not only was there no meat for Friday, there was no meat on Wednesdays, or Saturdays either); before that, no meat at ALL during the long lenten fast, and there were other fasts (pre Christmas, from November 15 on) as well. Before that, not only no meat but no eggs, butter, milk, cheese. . . In a culture where the agricultural economy was barely self-sufficient for a family, imagine your daily meal being pottage (vegetables, mostly old and stale at that by February or March, cooked in water), thick barley bread, (just barley, yeast and water, nothing to ‘top it’), beer (water being often unsafe to drink unless boiled!) or thin barely fermented wine, perhaps a few stored nuts or dried fruits. . .

Isn’t it ironic that now that life is much more luxurious that we want instead to make fasts ‘harder’ by adding or substituting things, feeling we don’t suffer enough since we have lots of substitutes for meat today??

Hey, I’m all for stricter fasts myself. 👍
 
Fasting is just a small sacrifice from us compared to Jesus Christ, also it is also a period of self repent…

CC has a more structured ways for fasting in which abstinence from eating red meat. My church usually practise normal fast (no food but only water till sunset) for those who are phyiscally fit and partial fast for those who have medical problems like gastric…
 
I was reading a book on Catholic practices by Maria Von Trapp and loved what she had to say about American Catholics who cringe at the words fast and abstinence when it comes to giving up something for God but spend literally millions each year to keep their body svelte and toned. They eat *evil concoctions *and go through horrendous workouts to be healthy and beautiful but whine and simper when asked to ( or told to) fast for their immortal souls sake.
It has been a practice since the beginning of Christianity to fast not only on Fridays but Wednesdays too.
The pagans fasted on Mondays and Thursdays so the Christian Churches decided to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays…I believe this is even in the Didache.
 
Mary_Henley said:
The pagans fasted on Mondays and Thursdays so the Christian Churches decided to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays…I believe this is even in the Didache.
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You’re absolutely right Mary 👍 , here’s from Roberts-Donaldson English translation:
Chapter 8. Fasting and Prayer (the Lord’s Prayer). But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week. Rather, fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday).
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With love,
George
 
Superstar905 said:
My mom told me not to eat meat today, as its Ash Wednesday and I had forgotten! Why do we not eat meat today, or on Friday’s of lent?
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Why do you not know this?

We abstain from flesh meats on Fridays, and other days designated by the Church, because Jesus gave up his flesh for us on a Friday. Each Friday is a day of penance and sorrow for Christ’s death on the cross.

The Church historically abstained from meat and fasted on Wednesdays and Fridays. This is evident in writings of the first century. Fasting and abstaining are part of our religioius heritage.
Superstar905 said:
I am also thinking that this discipline is somewhat outdated,
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Christ’s suffering and our sorrow for it are never outmoded. You are thinking wrongheadedly if you believe that penance is outdated.
Superstar905 said:
since meat used to be considered a luxury, however one can lavishly dine on Lobster, Salmon, Shark, whatever.
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If one were to do as you describe here, one should discuss the behavior with one’s confessor. That is not in keeping with a penitential attitude.
Superstar905 said:
What are your thoughts on this?
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On Fridays outside of the Lenten season, you are free to choose whatever penance you deem suitable. During the Fridays of Lent and Ash Wednesday you are asked to do penance in a particular way.

My thoughts are that deeper study into the sacrificial aspects of what the Church is asking might be in order.
Superstar905 said:
I’m Canadian, so I think we should hold a referendum on this issue (like we do with the french, lol).
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Even though a joke, it is a line of thinking that is Protestant, not Catholic. And, this line of thinking is dangerous.
 
Superstar905 said:
Trust me, i don’t eat lavishly, I was just using that as an example that meat is one of many luxuries, and I wonder how much of a luxury it is today, as compared to the past when this discipline was implemented.
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The choice of meat as the object of abstaining is not out of it’s “luxurious” nature. Flesh meat is chosen specifically because of Christ’s sacrifice of his flesh on the Cross on Good Friday and the pouring out of his blood for us.
 
I’m having a discussion with a fellow Catholic. Obviously, I understand when fasting, you avoid red meat. How about poultry? Should we fast from that as well? This is a little off-thread, but I didn’t want to start another one just for this question.
 
Superstar,

Hey there buddy! Long time, no speak!
Perhaps a referendum to change to eating only Liver, since for many, that would trully be a sacrifice.😉
 
No poultry. (Short answer). No pork (the other white meat, LOL) either.
Meat based broths (or poultry based) and gravies are all right if they are bouillion types or don’t have chunks of meat.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
No poultry. (Short answer). No pork (the other white meat, LOL) either.
Meat based broths (or poultry based) and gravies are all right if they are bouillion types or don’t have chunks of meat.
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Ok, thanks!
 
Is it considered a sin, if you don’t fast, or is fasting just strongly encouraged, but not mandatory? If it is mandatory, do you have an authoritative source?

I’ve run a search on this throughout the forum and nobody provides a straight answer.
 
mikew262 said:
Is it considered a sin, if you don’t fast, or is fasting just strongly encouraged, but not mandatory? If it is mandatory, do you have an authoritative source?

I’ve run a search on this throughout the forum and nobody provides a straight answer.
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It’s the fifth Precept of the Church. Yes, it’s mandatory, and yes, it’s a mortal sin to disobey the Church.

I hope that’s “straight” enough for you. 😉

**The Precepts of the Church
  1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.
  2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
  3. You shall humbly receive your Creator in Holy Communion at least during the Easter season.
  4. You shall keep holy the holy days of obligation.
  5. You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.
  6. The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities **
 
jmcrae said:
It’s the fifth Precept of the Church. Yes, it’s mandatory, and yes, it’s a mortal sin to disobey the Church.

I hope that’s “straight” enough for you. 😉

**The Precepts of the Church
  1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.
  2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
  3. You shall humbly receive your Creator in Holy Communion at least during the Easter season.
  4. You shall keep holy the holy days of obligation.
  5. You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.
  6. The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities **
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Ok, thanks!
 
jmcrae said:
It’s the fifth Precept of the Church. Yes, it’s mandatory, and yes, it’s a mortal sin to disobey the Church.

I hope that’s “straight” enough for you. 😉

**The Precepts of the Church
  1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.
  2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
  3. You shall humbly receive your Creator in Holy Communion at least during the Easter season.
  4. You shall keep holy the holy days of obligation.
  5. You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.
  6. The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities **
Click to expand...
A, did i understand wrongly, is a sin if one choose not to Fast…Why do the church have to require pple to fast if they are those who don’t , and yet it is a mortal sin…oh my goodness…then it is no longer a free will, but an instruction…BTW my Catholiç’s frez here told me that their parish does not make Fasting a mandatory, thus it is not a must for them to fast…wow how interesting…CC from different part of the world have practise different from one another…
 
Apostolic Constitution on Fast and Apostolic Constitution
P.Paul VI

Therefore, the following is declared and established:
I. 1. By divine law all the faithful are required to do penance.
2. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms:
II. 1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation throughout the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rites. Their substantial observance binds gravely.
Code: 
2. Apart from the faculties referred to in VI and VIII regarding the manner of fulfilling the precept of penitence on such days, abstinence is to be observed on every Friday which does not fall on a day of obligation, while abstinence and fast is to be observed on Ash Wednesday or, according to the various practices of the rites, on the first day of "Grande Quaresima"  (Great Lent) and on Good Friday.  
III. 1. The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat. 

2. The law of fasting allows only one full meal a day, but does not prohibit taking some food in the morning and evening, observing-as far as quantity and quality are concerned-approved local custom.
IV. To the law of abstinence those are bound who  have completed their 14th year of age. To the law of fast those of the faithful are bound who have completed their 21st year and up until the beginning of their 60th year.
As regards those of a lesser age, pastors of souls and parents should see to it with particular care that they are educated to a true sense of penitence.
taken form **Welcome to the Catholic Church **CDROM
 
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