Lesbian but not

[kage_ar]

It amazes me that there are CATHOLICS on this board who think this type of sham could take place! This man can never have intercourse. He had himself completely castrated and his penis removed. He has perpetual impotence, and cannot have intercourse.

Canon Law:

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/canonlaw.htm

Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.

 

[lizaanne]

It amazes me that there are CATHOLICS on this board who think this type of sham could take place! This man can never have intercourse. He had himself completely castrated and his penis removed. He has perpetual impotence, and cannot have intercourse.

Canon Law:

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/canonlaw.htm

Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.

THANK YOU to the forum voice of reason aka kage_er!!!

I’m too am reading through these responses and I’m absolutely floored to read Catholics trying to make this abomination work. This is wrong, it can not EVER be a valid marriage, unless the man is completely reconstructed so normal NORMAL intercourse can take place.

End of discussion - end of speculation. There are no other options.

The best thing for both of these people is to seek spiritual direction and support in living single chaste lives. It can be done, it’s not the end of the world to do so.

~Liza

 

[Tosk]

Even if marriage were some how possible in this case, you would have to overlook the fact that anyone who mutilates themselves in that way is stark raving mad. The guy should be getting help from a competent psychiatrist and not dating and entering into romantic relationships.

 

[AdriannaJean]

I think there is a place for IVF in situations where sperm delivered by the penis isn’t possible. What are a married Catholic couple supposed to do if the husband has an erectile dysfunction problem or a damaged penis? The OP would still be using the sperm of her ‘husband’, it’s just not coming out of his penis. I guess we go deeper and ask what if this guy goes back to being a guy and wants to have children?
.

Nope. You are Anglican, and I’m not sure about the Anglican stance on IVF, but in the Catholic Church it is ALWAYS a grave sin, and never ok. If you want to get into why that is, start another post so as not to derail this one and put a link on this post and I will be happy to explain further. And what is a married Catholic couple to do? Adopt or take in foster children. Having biological children is not considered a right to be pursued by all means.

Can you please clarify what you mean here. Are you saying that you can’t have sex without foreplay, and that orgasm can only be achieved through intercourse? Why can’t they share physical intimacy without having to insert something inside the other person. The OP said she’s a lesbian anyway, so a penis obviously isn’t her cup of tea.

There can be sex without foreplay, but no foreplay without sex. Every sexual act must be unitive and procreative (doesn’t mean you need to conceive, but there needs to be nothing impeding that happening). The OP’s “cup of tea” is really small fry in comparison to what God says we can and cannot do.

A female climax can happen during foreplay or after intercourse (as long as intercourse is involved) and a male climax can only occur uncontracepted during vaginal intercourse. So that is why they could never share physical intimacy because vaginal intercourse is impossible.

 

[Jack17]

Even if marriage were some how possible in this case, you would have to overlook the fact that anyone who mutilates themselves in that way is stark raving mad. The guy should be getting help from a competent psychiatrist and not dating and entering into romantic relationships.

They have to see a psychiatrist or therapist before transistion. Then a year on hormones and then an expensive procedure. He has to know what he was doing so I wouldn’t say mad but just in the wrong body. I know this because I saw a tyra bank show about this with one of her models.

I don’t understand why a straight man would do this to himself though but I guess he’s a gay lesbian in the mind? I guess it’s possible, just very different.

I don’t know the validity of this relationship, my opinion is be honest with the priest. See from there.

 

[Tosk]

They have to see a psychiatrist or therapist before transistion. Then a year on hormones and then an expensive procedure. He has to know what he was doing so I wouldn’t say mad but just in the wrong body. I know this because I saw a tyra bank show about this with one of her models.

I don’t understand why a straight man would do this to himself though but I guess he’s a gay lesbian in the mind? I guess it’s possible, just very different.

I don’t know the validity of this relationship, my opinion is be honest with the priest. See from there.

He needs to see a psych who is not going to collude with his delusion and who will get him help. What the doctors and psychiatrists have done to that poor guy is beyond unethical. Believing that you are really a woman trapped in a man’s body is not something that sane people believe.

 

[Jack17]

He needs to see a psych who is not going to collude with his delusion and who will get him help. What the doctors and psychiatrists have done to that poor guy is beyond unethical. Believing that you are really a woman trapped in a man’s body is not something that sane people believe.

Well if he’s happy now, and he removed his penis and has breast now… I think he be pretty much disfigure after being ‘disfigured’. And depress right again. I think it’s too late now to change someone mind about an issue like this especially with the changes done. I don’t think it’s anybodys place to say he should see a psychiatrist after his change (which required one). It’s his personal choice, and I heard these people would rather not live then be the other gender.

I am not agreeing with transexualism, but some things are better than feeling like dying and depression. He may not be sane but I don’t know really. It’s against God but I’m assuming he’s catholic as well so that’s his own sin. I’m not here to judge though.

 

[Shannon9791]

Well if he’s happy now, and he removed his penis and has breast now… I think he be pretty much disfigure after being ‘disfigured’. And depress right again. I think it’s too late now to change someone mind about an issue like this especially with the changes done. I don’t think it’s anybodys place to say he should see a psychiatrist after his change (which required one). It’s his personal choice, and I heard these people would rather not live then be the other gender.

I am not agreeing with transexualism, but some things are better than feeling like dying and depression. He may not be sane but I don’t know really. It’s against God but I’m assuming he’s catholic as well so that’s his own sin.

The question I have is, don’t most people who have this change actually feel attracted to the opposite sex. Like if a guy gets a change, he’ll be attracted to men? I don’t see why someone would get a sex change operation from a guy to a girl and then become a lesbian. It sounds like that episode of South Park.

 

[Belle777]

There’s a certain sexuality when you are attracted to someone based on them acting like their opposing gender, as well as a sexuality where you’re straight but you wish you were the gender you’re attracted to.

 

[Jack17]

The question I have is, don’t most people who have this change actually feel attracted to the opposite sex. Like if a guy gets a change, he’ll be attracted to men? I don’t see why someone would get a sex change operation from a guy to a girl and then become a lesbian. It sounds like that episode of South Park.

Well I don’t know really but I’m thinking him being a woman is more for society reasons and his sexuality has no connection to what he wants to society to percieve him as.

 

[Shannon9791]

Well I don’t know really but I’m thinking him being a woman is more for society reasons and his sexuality has no connection to what he wants to society to percieve him as.

I suppose that makes sense, like a guy actually thinks he’s a lesbian and wishes to be a woman so he can be a lesbian. Just seems like it would make more sense just to be a guy and keep on liking girls.

 

[Riseof_Rome]

This may be a tough pill to swallow, but I am almost certain it would be an invalid marriage. You have to consider the two purposes of marriage

1. To breed and raise children in Catholicism
2. The mutual love the couple has for one another

I was aware that these were the only rules about marriage within the Church. I beleive the intention of the marriage has to also include pro-creation. If I am wrong I would welcome anyone to correct me, but again I am almost 100% positive.

 

[Riseof_Rome]

It amazes me that there are CATHOLICS on this board who think this type of sham could take place! This man can never have intercourse. He had himself completely castrated and his penis removed. He has perpetual impotence, and cannot have intercourse.

Canon Law:

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/canonlaw.htm

Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.

I would have to agree with you on this one. Sorry poster, will keep you in my prayers.

 

[Jack17]

I know of this woman who couldn’t have kids and she married in the catholic church. Does that apply as well?

 

[Belle777]

But what if a man and a woman want to marry each other, but can’t have sex because of something they can’t help?
Just curious. nods

 

[Riseof_Rome]

But what if a man and a woman want to marry each other, but can’t have sex because of something they can’t help?
Just curious. nods

I’m not sure that’s why I invite anyone who knows the answer to share it.

 

[Tosk]

But what if a man and a woman want to marry each other, but can’t have sex because of something they can’t help?
Just curious. nods

The man and woman have to be able to consummate the marriage in order to marry each other.

Canon 1084

§1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.

jimmyakin.org/2005/05/impotence_vs_in.html

 

[AdriannaJean]

People who suffer infertility through no fault of their own (ex: hysterectomy for cancer, impotence etc.) I THINK can be married because there is no telling what God can do. Miracles happen, someone close to me just gave birth to a child with a presumable “sterile” father. However, in this case, the penis has been intentionally removed.

Someone more knowledgable is free to correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Alindawyl]

Tosk quoted part of it. Here’s the full text of 1084:

*Can. 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.

§3. Sterility neither prohibits nor nullifies marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1098.*

This is from the section of the Code of Canon Law dealing with impediments to marriage.

Sterility in and of itself is no justification for blocking a marriage (or for granting an annulment, for that matter). Impotence, on the other hand, is a direct impediment to marriage. However, an impediment to marriage can be dispensed by the local diocesan bishop if he so desires. I had to receive a dispensation back when I wanted to get married because my fiancee was not a catholic.

Whether or not the bishop will grand a dispensation in any given situation is his call, and would depend on the particulars. Impotence due to a wound received in an accident or combat, or a side effect of life-saving surgery, would probably not be a problem. Self-inflicted impotence from a freely chosen sex change operation might be a different story.

 

[lizaanne]

People who suffer infertility through no fault of their own (ex: hysterectomy for cancer, impotence etc.) I THINK can be married because there is no telling what God can do. Miracles happen, someone close to me just gave birth to a child with a presumable “sterile” father. However, in this case, the penis has been intentionally removed.

Someone more knowledgable is free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Infertility is NOT the same as impotence. Sex still remains open to life and is unitive with the infertile couple, so yes marriage is still valid. But with the couple that can not have sex and consummate the marriage, they can not be in a valid marriage. See the quote from Cannon Law above.

~Liza