Lets discuss! Absoute Truth vs Relative Truth

[alliWantisGod]

Hi everyone. this is an important topic for today.

Is there really an absolute truth regarding every situation? or are situations relative based on the context of whats happening. Each culture has a different worldview on love, politics, relationships, Religion, etc. Should we focus on the truth being on what is best in the situation? Or is there an absolute truth to everything regardless of what happens in this world no matter the situation

If someone thinks that contraception is okay because it prevents them from getting an STD from their spouse who is infected… is it okay to use contraception in that scenario? or is there a truth that we should never use it even if the truth harms us?

 

[Rhubarb]

There are both objective and relative truths. Even people who champion that everything is relative can’t coherently deny that Barrack Obama is President of the United States in 2016. Maybe there’s some political-linguistic gymnastics they can play to try and deny it, but that’s just silliness. Likewise the absolutist can’t really argue about objective truth when disagreeing with someone who says “Batman v. Superman was enjoyable” by citing an appeal to ‘the truth’. How truth works isn’t an all one way or all the other way. I think there has to be room in our epistemology for both.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, here’s the thing.
Suppose you say, “There is no absolute truth. There is only relative truth”.

In making that statement. . .you have just stated an absolute truth, haven’t you? "There is only relative truth’ is itself an absolute statement that completely forbids anything but relative truth, right?

Or let’s say, "OK, there is no REAL absolute, but some of the relative things are closer to being true than others’. . .because, say, there is one group which says that stealing is all right if you’re stealing food to feed your starving children and you have exhausted every other possibility, and another group says that stealing is all right so long as you aren’t harming a person–i.e., that shoplifting for example is all right, even if you could pay for the clothes, because you’re taking goods from a corporation and not a person, and you think they’re overpriced, etc.

Well, ONE of the two groups above I think virtually every honest person would say is closer to being right than the other. I think that no one would say a person should starve, but that quite a few would say of shoplifting, “well, it really IS stealing, because the cost of having to make up shoplifted goods is part of what drives up the price on those goods, and so you are actually affecting people --the people who ‘pay the price’ on those goods.”

So one group is more ‘right’ morally speaking.

And that means that there must be an absolute ‘right’ when it comes to stealing. Because the two positions themselves can’t be the ultimate right if you’re measuring them against ‘right’. The first is really really close. . .and the other, measured against it, isn’t as close to being what virtually everybody, no matter their ‘society’ thinks is right. So what is this unspoken ‘right’ that we feel we need to measure something against? Sounds awfully close to an absolute truth. . .

My off-the-cuff take on things. . .

 

[alliWantisGod]

How can I find the absolute truth? I want to find what is right and I want to do what is right? it is stressing me out

 

[STT]

How can I find the absolute truth? I want to find what is right and I want to do what is right? it is stressing me out

It is extremely difficult if it is not impossible to find Absolute Truth. It is also extremely difficult if not impossible to know what is a right and wrong action based on Absolute Truth.

 

[johnnyc176]

How can I find the absolute truth? I want to find what is right and I want to do what is right? it is stressing me out

No need to stress. Just obey.

Jesus said…I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church, indeed they are One and the Same.
The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

 

[Irishmom2]

No need to stress. Just obey.

Jesus said…I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church, indeed they are One and the Same.
The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Exactly!

 

[IamGroot]

Great question but absolutely impossible to answer. An absolute truth could be Murder is wrong. But then what about Murder is evil. Now is this an absolutely truth or Relative truth. All truths here on earth are relative because there are always a lot of other factors and it depends on each individual situation in most cases.

 

[po18guy]

“Relative truth” is an oxymoron. I think it is far better labeled as personal opinion.

 

[alliWantisGod]

What if there is an absolute truth but we can respond to it relatively depending on the situation. Let’s say that love and goodness is the absolute truth but the person is stuck in a sticky scenario. There are lots of options to choose but choosing the option that brings out goodness and love the most would be the best. What about that?

 

[IamGroot]

Another important point of discussion is, an this is especially the case with religion, is which religion is absolutely true if any versus relatively true. Because I have friends of all religions who are convinced they know the absolute truth. Same with my non believing friends, they think they know the absolute truth. So I could say it’s all relative.

 

[Sy_Noe]

No need to stress. Just obey.

Jesus said…I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church, indeed they are One and the Same.
The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

No it’s not quite that simplistic. First of all it takes faith to believe in a God. Something atheists do not have. Then it would take faith in Jesus and the NT story about him. Something Jews do not have. Then it would take faith that the Church founded remains the Catholic Church today and that is something many non Catholic Christians or unfaithful Catholics do not have. It would also take faith in Catholic interpretations of itself, of Scripture and the ECFs. Bottom line is in matters of faith, it takes a whole lotta faith and belief to come to believe that one knows absolute truth.

 

[alliWantisGod]

No it’s not quite that simplistic. First of all it takes faith to believe in a God. Something atheists do not have. Then it would take faith in Jesus and the NT story about him. Something Jews do not have. Then it would take faith that the Church founded remains the Catholic Church today and that is something many non Catholic Christians or unfaithful Catholics do not have. It would also take faith in Catholic interpretations of itself, of Scripture and the ECFs. Bottom line is in matters of faith, it takes a whole lotta faith and belief to come to believe that one knows absolute truth.

So absolute truth would require faith

 

[Sy_Noe]

So absolute truth would require faith

Not in the case of something like Barack Obama is POTUS as Rhubarb said. Or that Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are on the ballot as the 2 major candidates to be the next US President. Or that Justin Trudeau is the Canadian PM. Or that the Cleveland Indians beat the Blue Jays in the ALCS and the Cubs the Dodgers and the 2 are now playing in the WS. Those are things we know. But in some, even perhaps many, matters of faith, yes I believe it takes faith. Besides the things I previously mentioned, one even needs faith in the humans with finite minds who were the early apostles and early Christians in order to believe they got everything right. If everything was so clear and certain, there would be no need for faith. There would only be one. And that simply is not the case in the world.

Lets take your earlier example about contraception, I have no idea if contraceptives can be used to prevent a disease such as an STD under the Catholic faith but as I understand Catholic teaching, contraceptive use is allowed for medical reasons.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13226643&postcount=2

But by faith, a faithful Catholic wouldn’t use contraceptives for birth control. But other faiths may have other beliefs about contraception.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

There are both objective and relative truths. Even people who champion that everything is relative can’t coherently deny that Barrack Obama is President of the United States in 2016. Maybe there’s some political-linguistic gymnastics they can play to try and deny it, but that’s just silliness. Likewise the absolutist can’t really argue about objective truth when disagreeing with someone who says “Batman v. Superman was enjoyable” by citing an appeal to ‘the truth’. How truth works isn’t an all one way or all the other way. I think there has to be room in our epistemology for both.

IMO, this ^ is the best answer so far. There are moral truths that are relative, not in and of themselves, but to the situation in which they need to be applied. But this is complicated and takes many years of study and experience to get right. Therefore it’s not widely taught and most people are just told to obey, which, I think, is the right approach until a proper understanding of morality and the why reasons for the Catholic view of moral truth can be understood.

The OP shows an understanding that the morality of an issue lies behind ‘the law’ not within the law. The Catholic doctrines that I refer to as ‘law’ have an indisputable morality behind them. The ‘law’ focuses on guiding us through life according to the absolute truth that is behind it, but it cannot be evenly applied in every circumstance without breaking the very moral truth the ‘law’ is trying to protect. In that sense, the law can be seen as being relative, but not the moral truth behind the law.

 

[STT]

IMO, this ^ is the best answer so far. There are moral truths that are relative, not in and of themselves, but to the situation in which they need to be applied. But this is complicated and takes many years of study and experience to get right. Therefore it’s not widely taught and most people are just told to obey, which, I think, is the right approach until a proper understanding of morality and the why reasons for the Catholic view of moral truth can be understood.

It might take human forever to understand what Absolute Truth is and it might take human forever to understand what is the relation between Morality and Absolute Truth.

The OP shows an understanding that the morality of an issue lies behind ‘the law’ not within the law. The Catholic doctrines that I refer to as ‘law’ have an indisputable morality behind them. ** The ‘law’ focuses on guiding us through life according to the absolute truth that is behind it**, but it cannot be evenly applied in every circumstance without breaking the very moral truth the ‘law’ is trying to protect. In that sense, the law can be seen as being relative, but not the moral truth behind the law.

That is a huge claim (bold part). Do you know what Absolute Truth is?

 

[alliWantisGod]

The thing is. We are all slaves to consequence. That is absolute. Everything we do has a consequence. Newton’s law of motion is based off consequence and such. So we need to react accordingly to whatever situation we are in. It may not be black and white, but we can use church teaching to guide us to make the best decision. Even if there isn’t a right or wrong

 

[1Lord1Faith]

It might take human forever to understand what Absolute Truth is and it might take human forever to understand what is the relation between Morality and Absolute Truth.

That is a huge claim (bold part). Do you know what Absolute Truth is?

Sorry I meant to say moral truth, not absolute truth.

 

[seagal]

It is extremely difficult if it is not impossible to find Absolute Truth. It is also extremely difficult if not impossible to know what is a right and wrong action based on Absolute Truth.

It’s difficult but not impossible to find absolute truth. You ask the question "Is this true for all people in all places at all times?" If the answer is yes then it’s an absolute truth.

For example, you can say it’s a sunny day today. That might be true for you but maybe the sun is clouded over somewhere else. For someone else it’s a cloudy day. So it’s not an absolute truth. But it is an absolute truth that the sun is always shining even if we don’t see it.

Another example, you can say that it’s absolutely true that murdering someone in cold blood is wrong. I don’t think you’ll find anyone at any time or place that will say that is not true. You could probably find people who actually do kill in cold blood and think nothing of it, but if you killed someone they loved I’m sure they wouldn’t think it’s quite ok (unless they’re psychopaths). So it’s not true for them at all times.

The key is asking that question.

 

[Sy_Noe]

The thing is. We are all slaves to consequence. That is absolute. Everything we do has a consequence. Newton’s law of motion is based off consequence and such. So we need to react accordingly to whatever situation we are in. It may not be black and white, but we can use church teaching to guide us to make the best decision. Even if there isn’t a right or wrong

Absolutely faithful Catholics indeed can use their church’s teaching to guide them. I would even say if they are fully faithful practicing Catholics, that would be a good thing to do in living out their particular faith and belief. No question about that.