Let's face it - we DO worship Mary

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I cringe whenever I see a discussion between a Catholic and non-Catholic in which the Catholic says, “We don’t worship Mary.” It is a silly semantics game and rightly recognized as such by non-Catholics. As a Catholic, it’s an embarrassing game for me to watch.

The worship we direct to God (latria in the technical term) and that to saints (dulia) are certainly distinct. But they are both instances of worship by any ordinary definition of the word. Trying to maintain that Marian devotion is not “worship” to any Protestant acquainted with our rosaries, shrines, and Schubert’s “Ave Maria” just ruins your credibility.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Worship, Christian (bolds added by yours truly)

The word worship (Saxon weorthscipe, “honour”; from worth, meaning “value”, “dignity”, “price”, and the termination, ship; Lat. cultus) in its most general sense is homage paid to a person or a thing. In this sense we may speak of hero-worship, worship of the emperor, of demons, of the angels, even of relics, and especially of the Cross. This article will deal with Christian worship according to the following definition: homage paid to God, to Jesus Christ, to His saints, to the beings or even to the objects which have a special relation to God.
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As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).

Worship the Queen Mother of my Lord Jesus? Of course I do!
 
true, the only problem is articulating teh differences in teh worship types
 
Hi Racer,

Of course you’re right, there’s a world of difference between latria, hyperdulia and dulia.

However, it is also a fact that English is an evolving language; much has changed even over just the past 100 years. We should note that the term “worship” in 21st-century common understanding now refers almost exclusively to latria, the other two referred to as “veneration” or “honor”.

Of course most non-Catholics know nothing of the three degrees of “worship”, so we should probably go down to their level when explaining our worship and prayer habits.
 
Perhaps you worship Mary but I seriously doubt very many Catholics do, if any at all. Or are you just wanting to argue?
 
i have not met a catholic yet that worships Mary, you must travel with a different type of catholic… we belong to the Roman Catholic Church… we honor her, and venerate her name… afterall, she is the mother of God… Maybe your confused with a fallen away catholic weak in their faith with no formal catholic training… In all my years (which goes back before Vatican II there has never been any worship of anyone other than the Trinity… Father, Son, and Holy Ghost… It doesn’t take much online research for you to confirm that either… good luck in your search… 👍
 
Good point, Porthios.

Judges in the United States are called “Your Honor,” and in England, weren’t they called, “Your Worship?”
 
Although it is true that we “worship” her in the ancient sense of the word (hold in high honor), I would refrain from using that term nowadays. It just serves to make non-Catholics think that we treat her as the equal of Christ or even above.
 
Racer X:
I cringe whenever I see a discussion between a Catholic and non-Catholic in which the Catholic says, “We don’t worship Mary.” It is a silly semantics game and rightly recognized as such by non-Catholics. As a Catholic, it’s an embarrassing game for me to watch.

The worship we direct to God (latria in the technical term) and that to saints (dulia) are certainly distinct. But they are both instances of worship by any ordinary definition of the word. Trying to maintain that Marian devotion is not “worship” to any Protestant acquainted with our rosaries, shrines, and Schubert’s “Ave Maria” just ruins your credibility.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Worship, Christian (bolds added by yours truly)

The word worship (Saxon weorthscipe, “honour”; from worth, meaning “value”, “dignity”, “price”, and the termination, ship; Lat. cultus) in its most general sense is homage paid to a person or a thing. In this sense we may speak of hero-worship, worship of the emperor, of demons, of the angels, even of relics, and especially of the Cross. This article will deal with Christian worship according to the following definition: homage paid to God, to Jesus Christ, to His saints, to the beings or even to the objects which have a special relation to God.
…
As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).

Worship the Queen Mother of my Lord Jesus? Of course I do!
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I see your point, but when we talk to others it is important to make sure our words mean the same. The word worship , as you say, has many meanings --as in the old Marriage ceremony," with my body I thee worship". One of the problems is perhaps that when a catholic says we worship God, we mean we offer sacrifice to God. Protestants don’t offer sacrifice --they just greatly admire with extreme devotion --what catholics do to Mary.

Which leads to a problem. Do you think there are Catholics that for fear of God, spend so much time on Mary as an end in herself that they might better spend on God? I have heard a few very good Catholics seem to feel that in order to get what God is not giving , it would be better to ask Mary–they seem to make Jesus into a stingy Guy who doesn’t really care for us. Quite a wrong way to think if you ask me.
 
Leo and SpaceGhost:

It’s obvious you didn’t actually read what Racer X actually wrote, so why do you waste our time and Catholic Answers’s bandwith with posts that make no sense?

Racer X is right on the money. To “worship,” in and of itself, means to honor, and the word does not necessarily have religious connotations. That’s why, in England, up until very recently (even today?) public officials were addressed as “Your Honor” and in the old Anglican service books, when the partners exchanged rings at their wedding, they said “With this ring, I thee worship.”

And even Father John Hardon, in his Catholic Catechism, uses this word in the archaic sense.

So yes, Catholic do worship Mary. Good Catholics also worship their parents, their spouses, their civil authorities, and others worthy of honor.

We don’t offer any of these the worship of latria, however. What this boils down to, in practice, is the whole notion of sacrifice. Sacrifice, especially the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is offered to the Holy Trinity alone. Only God may be offered sacrifice. Lower forms of worship are owed, in varying degrees, to His creatures.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Leo and SpaceGhost:

It’s obvious you didn’t actually read what Racer X actually wrote, so why do you waste our time and Catholic Answers’s bandwith with posts that make no sense?

Racer X is right on the money. To “worship,” in and of itself, means to honor, and the word does not necessarily have religious connotations. That’s why, in England, up until very recently (even today?) public officials were addressed as “Your Honor” and in the old Anglican service books, when the partners exchanged rings at their wedding, they said “With this ring, I thee worship.”

And even Father John Hardon, in his Catholic Catechism, uses this word in the archaic sense.

So yes, Catholic do worship Mary. Good Catholics also worship their parents, their spouses, their civil authorities, and others worthy of honor.

We don’t offer any of these the worship of latria, however. What this boils down to, in practice, is the whole notion of sacrifice. Sacrifice, especially the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is offered to the Holy Trinity alone. Only God may be offered sacrifice. Lower forms of worship are owed, in varying degrees, to His creatures.
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your right… i jumped too quick… it’s late mea culpa… unlike some i commit errors… my apologies… 👍
 
Racer X:
I cringe whenever I see a discussion between a Catholic and non-Catholic in which the Catholic says, “We don’t worship Mary.” It is a silly semantics game and rightly recognized as such by non-Catholics. As a Catholic, it’s an embarrassing game for me to watch.

The worship we direct to God (latria in the technical term) and that to saints (dulia) are certainly distinct. But they are both instances of worship by any ordinary definition of the word. Trying to maintain that Marian devotion is not “worship” to any Protestant acquainted with our rosaries, shrines, and Schubert’s “Ave Maria” just ruins your credibility.
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Well the word “Worship” is an inadeqate word, since in ordinary usage in english it is applied to members of the House of Lords and to Magistrates. We offer Latria to God, Dulia to the Saints and Hyper-Dulia to Mary. And all three of these DIFFERANT words can only be translated “Worship”? Clearly then the english languege is inadeqate.
 
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metal1633:
Well the word “Worship” is an inadeqate word, since in ordinary usage in english it is applied to members of the House of Lords and to Magistrates. We offer Latria to God, Dulia to the Saints and Hyper-Dulia to Mary. And all three of these DIFFERANT words can only be translated “Worship”? Clearly then the english languege is inadeqate.
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I agree that it is an inadequate word, a common problem with the limitations of the english language. The word love is much the same - different levels of meaning deliverd using the same word:

I love the Steelers
I love pickles
I love zither music
I love my dog Waldo
I love my Country
I love my Wife
I love God

Such a limited language we have. You really have to understand the context to appreciate the real meaning implied in words like “love” and “worship”. I’m sure there are many others.

Although I do love the Steelers… 😉
 
Hi everyone:) Hmmmm…I am a newbie to this site and was very interested in the 3 types of worship -this is all new to me. I’ve heard that Catholics worship Mary…but in most contexts, the people saying this imply that you all hold Mary in just as high regard as God Himself…I’m glad to see this isn’t so and I’ll let others know when they make that comment that it is on a different level than to worship the Almighty Himself…did I get that right:confused: ? If not, my apologies and I’d love it to be enlightend on the subject!! Thanks guys and keep up the discussions- they help us new comers educate themsleves!!😉

Love and Blessings-
Heather
 
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Heatherec:
Hi everyone:) Hmmmm…I am a newbie to this site and was very interested in the 3 types of worship -this is all new to me. I’ve heard that Catholics worship Mary…but in most contexts, the people saying this imply that you all hold Mary in just as high regard as God Himself…I’m glad to see this isn’t so and I’ll let others know when they make that comment that it is on a different level than to worship the Almighty Himself…did I get that right:confused: ?
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You got it right Heather. 👍

And welcome to the forums. :tiphat:

I hope you find answers to all your questions. The truth is a wonderful thing.

Blessings.
 
Latria - the type of worship we give to God and God alone. This is what is commonly referred to now when we say “worship”.

Latria is primarily expressed by the offering of the Sacrifice of the Mass. We offer the Sacrtifice TO the Father, THROUGH the Son, IN the Holy Spirit. We never hear of Catholics offering sacrifice to Mary or the saints. No Catholic altars are altars to Mary or the saints.

We also express the worship of latria through genuflection to the Blessed Sacrament (the bending of the knee in homage before God). We also do so by the official prayers of the Church, especially the Liturgy of the Hours (by singing the inspired Psalms to God). None of these things are done to the saints.

Dulia - the honor and reverence we give to the saints. We honor the saints as great Christians who have persevered in heroic virtue and are now with God in heaven. It is much like the honor we pay to the memories of the great founding fathers of our countries but to a higher degree. But we do NOT offer sacrifices to them, we do NOT have altars to them, and we do NOT sing Psalms to them.

However, we do offer Mass to remember them, we say the Divine Office to remember them, and we always ask them to Pray for Us. So our primary relationship with them is that they are are big brothers and sisters in heaven. But the liturgical prayers during their feasts and are always addressed to God, while invoking their prayers for us.

Hyperdulia - basically just “higher” dulia - the reverence and honor given to our Lady. Why higher? Because it was through her single act of obedience that God gave us the Savior of the world. As the mother of the King, she is the Queen Mother of heaven, and therefore shares a higher degree of her Son’s glory. She is also the closest one to God, and the best intercessor we have in the Communion of Saints.

Also note the responses we make when we recite litanies:

To the Persons to whom we offer latria:

Lord - have mercy on us
Christ - have mercy on us
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus - have mercy on us
Holy Spirit the Paraclete - have mercy on us.
etc

BUT to those to whom we give dulia and hyperdulia:

Holy Mary - pray for us
Holy Mother of God - pray for us
Queen of Angels - pray for us
Mother of Perpetual Help - pray for us
St. Josepn - pray for us
St. John the Baptist - pray for us
Sts. Peter and Paul - pray for us
etc
 
Many of you suggest that my more general sense of the word worship is somewhat archaic. The dictionary I checked is consistent with that, not listing it as explicitly archaic, but giving the more general definition second to the specifically religious one.

Language does change, and especially rapidly in recent times, usually to the effect of narrowing a definition. Case in point: molest. I still feel uncomfortable when I recall the looks given me when once I used the word in its older, more general sense. :eek:
 
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OhioBob:
I love zither music
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Bob, I love Zither music too. I have a collection [49] of German/Austrian/Swiss Alpine music CDs with LOTS of Zither music. I love to listen to it in my shop while I carve. MOST relaxing. Wonderful to find another afficianado of Zither Music. My kids just roll their eyes.
 
CATHOLICS DO NOT WORSHIP MARY.

As someone who fell away from the faith, became an evangelical protestant for 7 years and reconciled back to the RCC last year, I have observed that protestants accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary and the Saints because the protestant worship service is really only veneration and honor to God. It is not adoration because protestants rejected the Sacrifice of the Mass.

Catholics have the physical presence of Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinty, and we have the highest form of worship in the Mass. When we adore the consecrated species, we fulfill the Scripture that says that every knee will bow and every tongues confess that Jesus is Lord.

Protestants reject that awesome truth.

So, of course, they are going to think we worship Mary.
It is because our veneration of her, is about the same as their perception of worship of God.

It is the Protestants that fall short in the fullness of worshipping God, not Catholics over-exuberance with Mary.

Since I have experienced both sides, I think I am making a pretty informed opinion here.
 
Dan-Man916 said:
CATHOLICS DO NOT WORSHIP MARY.

As someone who fell away from the faith, became an evangelical protestant for 7 years and reconciled back to the RCC last year, I have observed that protestants accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary and the Saints because the protestant worship service is really only veneration and honor to God. It is not adoration because protestants rejected the Sacrifice of the Mass.

Catholics have the physical presence of Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinty, and we have the highest form of worship in the Mass. When we adore the consecrated species, we fulfill the Scripture that says that every knee will bow and every tongues confess that Jesus is Lord.

Protestants reject that awesome truth.

So, of course, they are going to think we worship Mary.
It is because our veneration of her, is about the same as their perception of worship of God.

It is the Protestants that fall short in the fullness of worshipping God, not Catholics over-exuberance with Mary.

Since I have experienced both sides, I think I am making a pretty informed opinion here.
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I have to agree here as a former Evangelical myself. All throughout the Bible “Worship” of God always had a Sacrificial aspect. The Jews didnt go to the synagouge to worship, they went to hear the Word and learn of God and remember all He did for them. They went to the Temple to offer Sacrifice in Worship. Evangelicals today have no “Temple”, they have no Sacrifice. They have a synagouge in which they hear the Word and remember.
 
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