Lets hear the sniveling over this one!!

[rmbrulotte]

Did anyone notice that Jesus did not address those remarks to the Roman government, but to individuals whom He was speaking to? Charity is doing, not making someone else do or making your government do it for you. Governments that become the dispersers of health care will also someday be the dispersers of car insurance, because that’s expensive too. Then what? Diapers? Food? Clothing? Housing? Electricity? Water?

You can go to respectable, credentialed think tank web sites and review their numbers. There isn’t one of the above that has a single model of “free” health care for all working. It can’t, because we don’t have the resources to pay for it, we don’t have the medical professionals to staff it, and that means we have two options:

1. Wait longer for it, if you ever get it
2. Find a way to limit the care.

Yesterday in the news there was a story of a Congressman who thinks it’s a great idea to put a number, a dollar figure on health care for older people. After 85 or so, that’s it, you’ve lived your life, move on.

How many Catholics with their arms tight around this system are willing to look ahead and deal with that issue RIGHT NOW? Not many. Most of them quote Jesus and say it means we need to support Obamacare. Fine, but you better be prepared for things like curtailing premature natal care because that ONE little life isn’t worth the investment. Or grandma lived a long life, it’s time to let her die, even though we could fix her bad artery, the amount of life for all that cost… well, someone in an office in Washington somewhere has stampped the form “REJECTED” so maybe you should stay close to grandma for the next few days.

**I for one will not jump on a train I know is heading to a destination that will NOT respect life, no matter the immediate gain. ** That lady’s shoulder pain is not worth the loss of more infants at the hand of some bean-counter in D.C., or the loss of dignity and proper care for our aged. And I certainly wouldn’t let my compass for public policy be the irrational decision of a woman to shoot herself in order to get better care. I consider that like the 3 Stooges drilling more holes in a leaking boat to let the water “out.”

Ultimately, that is where this will head. It has been documented that Obama’s chief of staff has said similar things. It may seem the right thing to do right now, but ultimately the system can not respect life.

 

[Bluegoat]

Really? How would a long wait have helped her at all? Check the lines in Canada, I’m not in favor for waiting 5 hours for a scheduled appointment.

Oh goodness gracious, you people get some silly ideas about how our system works.

 

[aspawloski4th]

How does the size & population of Switzerland, Australia & Canada compare to America? Could it be the Switzerland is only the size of one of our 50 states & thats why it seems more efficient? How many doctors, specialists & equipment per citizen? It is VERY hard to compare apples to pineapples.

How does Switzerland compare to us? If you know your history the USA is mostly based on the Swiss model. It’s not like Im trying to compare us to Leichtenstein or San Marino!

 

[aspawloski4th]

My response would be why wasn’t this woman on medicaid? If she had a low enough income she would qualify and if her income is too high she should buy her own health insurance just like the rest of us. As a last resort she could have turned to charity.

Speaking of that, if you are that concerned why don’t you contact her and offer to pay for her medical care? Of course it’s a lot easier to say her healthcare should be paid for when it’s being paid for with someone else’s money isn’t it?

Well this is Michigan. I’ll could say whi she isn’t on medicaid, but then the racism accusations would fly like debris in a F5 tornado if I gave the truth on that one. I’m unemployed and found out I’m not elegable for medicaid, guess I need to get a suntan and wear dark brown contacts the next time I try and apply for it.

 

[aspawloski4th]

1. Why is the insurance useless?
2. How much is a ridiculously high deductable?
3. How do we identify the policies which only serve to profit the industry?
4. The profit margin for the health insurance sector is 4.4%. That ranks number 87 in all sectors of the US economy.

Here we go with the profit economics **** again. Tell me this what function does it serve me , my wife, my mother or anyone else for insurance to make big profits Off of somes misfortune. I was told as a child that if I profited off of some’s misfortune I’d have no way to make it to heaven whatsoever. Percentage of profit is 110% irrelevant, it’s the profit statement at the end of the year thats matters There are no poor insurance companies out there.

 

[pnewton]

Sniveling? If you are going to make an appeal for charity, this is a poor way of starting it. Accusing those that will disagree with you of “sniveling” is hardly in keeping of the values of this forum. In any case, her injury was self-inflicted. The reason for is that she wanted treatment different than a doctor gave. Do you really think for one second that government back insurance will allow a mentally unstable person to override a doctors opinion and let the patient order their own tests? Your putting a lot of confidence in a medical opinion of a person that thought a self-inflicted gunshot might force doctors into doing what she thought best. Welcome to life. It is quite common with the best insurance for diagnosis to take more than one effort. Clinic diagnosis is often the first step.

The article did not mention the woman’s medical credentials.

 

[aspawloski4th]

A sad commentary? Do you know if she contacted any Christian charities? Did she contact Catholic Charities? I personally know several people who have gotten medical care from charitable organizations. It’s there if you just look for it.

She lives in Niles Michigan, nothing like that there. I contacted a Christian charity about getting my 100’s of moles and skin tags looked at for possible cancer, and I couldn’t prove to thier standards that I am unemployed! So if I get skin cancer my wife will be a widow. Ohwell I won’t miss living on Earth in the USA one little bit.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Sniveling? If you are going to make an appeal for charity, this is a poor way of starting it. Accusing those that will disagree with you of “sniveling” is hardly in keeping of the values of this forum. In any case, her injury was self-inflicted. The reason for is that she wanted treatment different than a doctor gave. Do you really think for one second that government back insurance will allow a mentally unstable person to override a doctors opinion and let the patient order their own tests? Your putting a lot of confidence in a medical opinion of a person that thought a self-inflicted gunshot might force doctors into doing what she thought best. Welcome to life. It is quite common with the best insurance for diagnosis to take more than one effort. Clinic diagnosis is often the first step.

The article did not mention the woman’s medical credentials.

I gave the link to the news story for which there is a story to read and you can get video if you so desire. Iv’e seen the story on local tv a half dozen times now. Quite frankly I find the anti national healthcare crowd very nausiating right now, and that played a part in my titling the thread. To me if you are against national health you are agianst healcare for the poor, or even middle class, and are infavor of the big dishonest insurance companies. This is Niles Michigan where she lives, no charities, no free clinics. She is white so no medicaid. Before you try to debunk that one I lived in Michigan all 4 and a quartar decades of my life and have yet to meet a white person on medicaids full program. yes there are charities out there but they are not everywhere! She is on unemployement, not easy to fill the gas tank and drive somewhere far away when you can’t make ends meet, I know that from personal experience. I find there is a Gospel parable that fits the healthcare debate almost perfectly. Us poor and some middle class who can’t afford doctors( like the woman in question) are Lazerus, and the isurance excecutives and the antinational healthcare crowd are the unnamed richman looking up at Lazerus in Heaven from you know where below. By the way for just a second you think maybe the unstableness of the woman, might be caused by the pain she wanted to get taken care of in the first place? It’s a no brainer to me.

 

[FlyCatcher]

As I said for major hospitalizations assuming the person can afford the deductible and premiums.

If a person has no major hospitalization and simply uses it for routine preventive care dr visits and never reach bills exceeding the high deductible then their premiums are total profit for the insurance company as the compnay would have paid nothing towards the person’s bills. Every cent plus premiums would have come out of the person’s pocket.

As little as possible.

What I am aware of is how our private system rations care. People limited and denied under our private system. Of people having to choose between paying for food for their children and their own medications. Of people dying under our system due to unaffordable adequate care.

God bless you. Peace and good night.

1. Glad we agree $300/mo $5k deductable insurance is useful. That’s what my policy is and I find it very useful.
2. Again, what is the proper profit margin for a health insurance company? if uou don’t know what it is, how can you say it is too high?
3. Private systems do ration care. So do single payer systems. Medicare rejects 6% of claims. Private in surance rejects 2.5% of claims.
4. People living under single payer systems are limited and denied care. So, I ask again, what single payer system does not ration care? Where?

 

[FlyCatcher]

How does Switzerland compare to us? If you know your history the USA is mostly based on the Swiss model. It’s not like Im trying to compare us to Leichtenstein or San Marino!

Switzerland has ferwer people than New York City.

 

[FlyCatcher]

Here we go with the profit economics **** again. Tell me this what function does it serve me , my wife, my mother or anyone else for insurance to make big profits Off of somes misfortune. I was told as a child that if I profited off of some’s misfortune I’d have no way to make it to heaven whatsoever. Percentage of profit is 110% irrelevant, it’s the profit statement at the end of the year thats matters There are no poor insurance companies out there.

Sorry you don’t like the economics. That’s what the entire health care discussion is about. Economics deals with the allocation of scarce resources. Things like MRI machones and neo-natal specialits are scarce resources. If you don’t like it, that’s OK. Stick to what you like. There are others who will take care of it.

The health insurance sector makes a 4.4% profut margin. That ranks 87 among all US sectors. That is hardly a high profit.

The reason it matters to you or your wife is that without the profit incentive, nobody would bother to create the company that pays for your wife’s health care when she needs it.

Can’t profit off misfortune or you go to hell? How about your doctor? He makes money off your misfortune. How about the company that makes the incubator for the premature baby? How abouty the plumber who comes in and fixes your broken sewer drain? Whoever told you that didn’t know what they were talking about.

The income statement does matter. Using percentages allows us to compare performance of large and small companies using a single measurement.

 

[FlyCatcher]

She lives in Niles Michigan, nothing like that there. I contacted a Christian charity about getting my 100’s of moles and skin tags looked at for possible cancer, and I couldn’t prove to thier standards that I am unemployed! So if I get skin cancer my wife will be a widow. Ohwell I won’t miss living on Earth in the USA one little bit.

Seems you have enough to afford a computer and an internet connection. What else do you have that you have chosen to buy rather than health care?

 

[CMatt25]

Seems you have enough to afford a computer and an internet connection. What else do you have that you have chosen to buy rather than health care?

My internet connection costs me < $10/mo Of course I sacrifice and only have dialup and I don’t have Direct TV or Dish for my TV either. But I survive.

 

[Dale_M]

The reason for is that she wanted treatment different than a doctor gave. Do you really think for one second that government back insurance will allow a mentally unstable person to override a doctors opinion and let the patient order their own tests? …

The article did not mention the woman’s medical credentials.

Yes, one of the problems with this situation, at least from the news story in the first post, is that the woman seems to have diagnosed herself with a torn rotator cuff. The doctors in the ER can assess the likelihood of such an injury without relying on a CT or MRI scan. If the injury is suspected, then the expensive test will be ordered.

A couple years ago, I injured my shoulder via straining. It hurt like the dickens, waking me from sleep if I lay wrong, stopping me from lifting that arm above my ribs, and preventing me from carrying any significant weight. I was pretty sure it was a torn rotator cuff, but hesitated going to the doctor. After three months, the injury was unhealed, so I finally went. He did a physical exam of the shoulder and arm, and announced that it wasn’t a torn rotator cuff. While grateful I didn’t need surgery, I was uneasy about the cause of the pain and slow healing… thinking I was facing a permanent disability.

Eventually, the injury healed. But I needed to trust the doc, because his diagnosis sure didn’t explain why I was feeling such severe pain and limitations.

I don’t have all the facts before me, I am just relying on that one news story, but it sounds as if that woman acted rashly. I understand her distress over her injury. And I understand her distrust of the ER diagnosis, by doctors she didn’t know. And I understand her anxiety that she couldn’t get a second opinion because she couldn’t afford one. But that doesn’t justify her impulsive action - she should have calmly sought assistance elsewhere, perhaps by going to a different hospital’s ER.

Some people in the US do lack access to medical care. ERs provide very expensive and second rate care for non-emergency conditions. One of the reasons that US health care costs so much is because poor and uninsured persons are often expected to rely on ERs for their routine care.

 

[CMatt25]

Oh goodness gracious, you people get some silly ideas about how our system works.

Bluegoat, unless you followed our healthcare debate, you haven’t heard the half of it.

 

[CMatt25]

I read responses like in this thread and hearing people bring up individuals and the Church and charity and saying the govt has no role and I just shake my head and want to cry. I actually have. It is 2010 in the yr of our Lord people. How much longer are we supposed to wait before tackling His call to care for the sick? And we call ourselves Christians? I am so tired of the excuses. God bless you all and peace. Stay well.

 

[pnewton]

Yes, one of the problems with this situation, at least from the news story in the first post, is that the woman seems to have diagnosed herself with a torn rotator cuff. The doctors in the ER can assess the likelihood of such an injury without relying on a CT or MRI scan. If the injury is suspected, then the expensive test will be ordered.

I too had an injury this year that was missed. The doctor gave me some pain meds for a neck pain and sent me home. After several days of no improvement and increasing pain, I went back. Only then was an MRI ordered based on increased pain and loss of sensation in one hand, where multiple herniated discs were found.

That is the way medicine is, or better yet, that is the way our bodies are. Multiple problems can cause similar symptoms. Diagnosis may take a while, and less intrusive methods are always used first when life is not threatened. Yes, even cheaper methods drive me to seek clinic diagnosis first sometimes.

PS - At no time did I consider **shooting myself. **

 

[Zatzat]

1. The woman is nuts.
2. It takes months for an MRI in most countries with national health care. Canadians come to the the US for MRIs.

Depends what for. Life threatening, you’re getting an MRI same day…like if you get into a car crash and smack your head.

You will wait a few months for an MRI of a non life threatening issue.

 

[Zatzat]

Really? How would a long wait have helped her at all? Check the lines in Canada, I’m not in favor for waiting 5 hours for a scheduled appointment.

I’ve used health care in Canada…my whole life! Not sure where anyone is waiting 5 hours for a scheduled appointment?

Most Doctors offices are open for 8 to 10 hours a day. How do you suppose they manage to get 5 hours behind? Wouldn’t that turn a Doctors day into a 15 hour working day? If the Doctors office is open 8 am to 6 pm…and they’re running 5 hours behind.

Are you suggesting that the Doctor is still seeing patients at 11 pm?

 

[Zatzat]

Oh goodness gracious, you people get some silly ideas about how our system works.

I mean…come on! 5 hours for a scheduled appointment??? Where is this commonly happening???

I’ve lived all over this country, three different provinces and I’ve never seen, let alone even heard of this.