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tjm190
Guest
You telling politicians to use other people’s money to care for the sick is not you caring for the sick.
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Zatzat
Guest
Politicians are elected representatives of the government. The government is the voice of the people in action.
Deciding how your money is going to be spend, directly impacts people. If you elect a government that will see your tax dollars spend caring for the sick…you are directly responsible for the sick being cared for.
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FlyCatcher
Guest
Well, if you are afraid you have a serious disease and want to keep surviving, consider that a typical doctor checkup costs $90. (That’s what my very good private physician charges.) Which is more important? Internet or your health? What did the computer cost? Been to a restaurant? Bought anyone a present? Give money to the church?My internet connection costs me < $10/mo
Of course I sacrifice and only have dialup and I don’t have Direct TV or Dish for my TV either. But I survive.
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Zatzat
Guest
What you’re doing is actually quite mean.
If she lived in Canada…the people would take care of her health through our tax base and she could still keep her modern means of communication, recreation, buy people presents, eat out occasionally and live a dignified life within her means.
What are you proposing? She should live in a cardboard box, just so she can afford the healthcare needed to live to an average life expectancy?
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YADA
Guest
And when that government paid doctor providing government paid medical care tells the pregnant woman that she has to abort her down’s syndrom child because the cost of caring for that child [medical care and cost to society for education, etc] to adulthood is too high will you be directly responsible for the murder of that child because these people represent your values, they are you in action - caring for all in need …
When the government provides for any abortion at any time for any reason - that is you in action - your values …
When the family of a accident victim is told that the cost of caring for them is excessive for [you name it … their age, their expected disabilities, the time of recovery, etc] and the plug should be pulled or expensive ‘invasive’ treatements will be withheld - that will be you in action because they represent you and your values …
And this is what you think Jesus meant when he said "render to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s … "
FYI: My grandson broke his hand and needed surgery … his dad’s insurance did not cover the cost, my daughter was pregnant with grandchild number three … the hospital bill was $7000 not including the doctor and anesthesiologist … that hopsital met with them after the surgery, verified their income, etc and wrote off the entire $7k and then they made payments to the doctors … they were not denied the care and if they would have had more income they might have had to work out a payment plan with the hopsital too … but there was a way …
Switzerland, Austria, Canada, etc … is not simlar to the US … neither is Mexico … in this country we have a huge infux of immagrants [legal and illegal] - a higher percentage and in greater numbers then any other country … In Great Britain - a foreign national legally in the country cannot get free maternity care … * … in this country - citizen, non-citizen whether legal or illegal, with insurance or without - they could get medical care including maternity care … Mexico does not provide medical care [or amnesty either] for those in the country legally or illegally …*
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FlyCatcher
Guest
I am proposing that people choose what to buy with their money. If one gives their own health low priority, why do they expect me to give it high priority?What you’re doing is actually quite mean.
If she lived in Canada…the people would take care of her health through our tax base and she could still keep her modern means of communication, recreation, buy people presents, eat out occasionally and live a dignified life within her means.
What are you proposing? She should live in a cardboard box, just so she can afford the healthcare needed to live to an average life expectancy?
I said nothing about a cardboard box. I mentioned computer, internet connection, presents for other people, restaurants, and church donations. I expect someone to drop all that in favor of health care before they demand I pay for their care. That is simple personal responsibility.
Perhaps she will take my advice, and get to that doctor. If so, I will have accomplished something here.
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FlyCatcher
Guest
Yada touched on something that deserves mention. A hospital will often give a good rate to people if they sit down prior to service and work out the cost. Waiting until after service has been given is the wrong time. If a baby is on the way, go in before the baby is due and work out a deal. Otherwise, it is a computer that spits out the bill. These people can’t work with you if you don’t give them a chance.
The same is true of a doctor. if you need to see one, and don’t have the cash, sit down with the billing person and work out a payment plan before you see the doctor and before you get the bill.
The same is true of a doctor. if you need to see one, and don’t have the cash, sit down with the billing person and work out a payment plan before you see the doctor and before you get the bill.
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Zatzat
Guest
Or if she’s lucky enough to immigrate to Canada…the Atheist that I am and tens of millions of other Canadians will happily pay for her health care needs.
It’s simple: it’s my personal responsibility to help others.
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tjm190
Guest
Right, but when you decide “Hey, group A needs this- I bet the wealthy would love to pay for that!” you are not being charitable or you helping someone else- you are imposing charity on another group.
I have no problem making my donations to St. Jude’s or the American Red Cross- I also don’t have a problem with people who do not wish to be charitable.
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FlyCatcher
Guest
Fine with me. Go for it. But, I do wonder if there are another ten million who don’t share your sense of responsibility towards Americans looking for free care. If an American shows up at a Canadian doctor, hospital, or clinic, does Canada pay for them? Or is their sense of responsibility a function of paperwork?Or if she’s lucky enough to immigrate to Canada…the Atheist that I am and tens of millions of other Canadians will happily pay for her health care needs.
It’s simple: it’s my personal responsibility to help others.
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Bluegoat
Guest
As far as I can tell, Americans do not treat their government this way - as their employees and representatives, as we do in Canada. They have a strange and adversarial relationship with them, which ensures only bad people want to go into politics. They also seem to have an adversarial relationship with their fellow citizens. I have wondered if this is not related to them being a Republic where every aspect of the government seems to be politicized, but who knows?
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rwoehmke
Guest
My understanding from my doctor is that the insurance company who issues the policy may be profiting only 4.4%. That however is after expenses, one of which is paying a related company to process the claims. This company has a much higher profit margin and siphons off a good chunk of change that ends up in the pockets of employees of the insurance company who hold shares in the processing company. Thus it would appear that that 4.4% return for some insurance company share holders is nothing but smoke and mirrors. They have found a legal way to work the system.
I have medicare, have had it for nearly a decade. It has served me very well and I believe that if every resident of our country was on medicare they would be much better off than they are now. Single payer does not have to mean a system like England.s or Canada’s which I have the impression that many Americans do not want. Government sponsored single payer sytems are almost as varied as the ethnic or nationality groups that make up our country. It seems as though many who object to single payer assume it has to be like the English or Canadian system. That just is not so, absolutely not so.
I have medicare, have had it for nearly a decade. It has served me very well and I believe that if every resident of our country was on medicare they would be much better off than they are now. Single payer does not have to mean a system like England.s or Canada’s which I have the impression that many Americans do not want. Government sponsored single payer sytems are almost as varied as the ethnic or nationality groups that make up our country. It seems as though many who object to single payer assume it has to be like the English or Canadian system. That just is not so, absolutely not so.
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tjm190
Guest
And what do you mean by ‘bad’ people?
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Bluegoat
Guest
A large portion of the “mark-up” on American health care services is administrative. The percentage that goes to administration compared to universal-type systems is huge.
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Zatzat
Guest
It’s all about what kind of a society you want to live in.
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Zatzat
Guest
Citizenship.
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FlyCatcher
Guest
Well, let’s examine that. It has multiple aspects.
- Insurance company owns processing company: In this case, profits from overpayments to the processing company flow back to the insurance company. if so, those profits are part of thee 4.4%.
- Processing company owned by insurance company employees: In this case, profits from overpayments flow back to insurance company employees. This is clearly illegal. It’s simple theft, and is prosecuted as such. Who would be watching for this? All the stockholders of the insurance company. Their money is being stolen. This is absolutely not a legal way to work the system.
- State insurance regulators are ignoring #1 and #2 above: It is highly unlikely that regulators in 50 states are ignoring this criminal activity. This is especially unlikely in states where the insurance commission controls premiums by age cohort.
- A profit maximizing insurance company could screw its competition by processing its own claims and offering lower premiums than the crooked companies. That would take business from the crooked companies and increase the profits of the competitive company.
- Regarding #2, let’s consider how this can be used by employees in any company to steal money. Just set up a vendor, pay way too much for a product, and pocket the profits. Is this what we commonly see? We do see it occasionally, and the employees usually end up doing 10-15 in the slammer.
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tjm190
Guest
People decide what sort of society they live in with every dollar they spend, save, or give. If a movement has enough support, it will gain traction. If not, then it doesn’t deserve to happen.
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FlyCatcher
Guest
Admin costs of insurance companies are in line with the rest of US industry. We have no history of government doing the same things cheaper than private companies. Where are you getting the admin costs fort universal systems? Don’t forget the huge amount of administration in the form of paperwork that Medicare forces on health care providers. It is far more than for people covered by private insurance.
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FlyCatcher
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Exactly. Many of us reject bloated welfare states where folks abdicate individual responsibility because they have become wards of the state. We also reject evaluating programs based on the motivation for enacting them. A stupid , ineffective, and inefficient program enacted for Christian principles is still stupid, ineffective, and inefficient.
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