Let's help fight occultism

[hrwilliams]

I have never felt that I had the gift of discernment from the Holy Spirit. However, a few years ago I was in a book store when I saw some tarot cards. I had no interest in tarot cards, but I touched a pack of them to turn them over. Instantly, I got a dark, sickening feeling. I decided to pray that God would take away the cards’ “power.”

I was thinking about that event today because paganism has really surged in “Christian” cultures lately. And I thought, what if we all made the commitment to go into these shops and aisles and pray?

Instead of further bemiring people in the lies of paganism, God can bind the spirits associated with them, and use people’s experiences with witchcraft to drive them to Christ. I think it’s a pretty good idea, don’t you?

 

[Barbkw]

I’d suggest first understanding pagan philosophies about chastity, homosexuality, abortion, marriage, power relationships with men, Christianity, etc.

Those occult “play toys” are enticements Evil uses, but the problem is much much deeper.

 

[Dorothy]

Occult practices are rampant now. Some people think nothing about going to psychics, and buying astrology books, and playing with oija boards and tarot cards. Even some nuns are practicing Reiki, which channels energy from the universe. (What we need is the Holy Spirit and healing prayer through Jesus our Lord!)

I think it would help if our children started to be catechized about this starting when they are being prepared for their First Communion.

Age appropriate education about what the biblical teachings about “divination, soothsaying, etc…” can continue through the high school level. They need to hear some discussions about bad experiences people have had,…and we need to make sure that they are aware that there is a supernatural world of good angels, and fallen angels.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I have never felt that I had the gift of discernment from the Holy Spirit. However, a few years ago I was in a book store when I saw some tarot cards. I had no interest in tarot cards, but I touched a pack of them to turn them over. Instantly, I got a dark, sickening feeling. I decided to pray that God would take away the cards’ “power.”

Gift of discernment? I hate to burst your bubble but its more like yet another psychological aversion to what goes against your beliefs. Now this is not to say I promote Tarot or anything but really, we all should be mature enough to take a little bit more responsibility for our feelings. (I should know. ) Real cursed objects are a rare find and I highly doubt you’d find one in a mass-manufactured deck like the ones you find in bookstores.

Honestly, these things have no “power”. My future, my present, my past, and pretty much everything that is who I am are not determined by well-decorated pieces of cardboard.

On the upside, I do find their motifs and artwork rather impressive.

If anything, we should be fighting the superstitious and fatalistic attitude behind these so-called ‘occult’ practices. It’s all baloney really.

 

[kentuckyliz]

The root of the evil is the desire to have special knowledge or control over people or events.

It shows a lack of trust in Divine Providence.

The spellcasting section of my local bookstore–was quite popular with teenage and young adult women trying to get their boyfriends to commit. A way to deal with anxiety created by unnaturally extended adolescence in modern first-world life.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I would just like to, for the sake of preserving our language, post the definition of occult.
The Free Online Dictionary:

oc·cult (-klt, klt)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
2. Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
3. Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. See Synonyms at mysterious.
4. Hidden from view; concealed.

a. Medicine Detectable only by microscopic examination or chemical analysis, as a minute blood sample.
b. Not accompanied by readily detectable signs or symptoms: occult carcinoma.

By that definition, anything “supernatural” or “beyond the realm of human comprehension” is occult. Therefore, the act of communiun is occult. And before everyone else on my forum accuses me of blasphemy for accusing Catholicism of being occult - it is YOUR definition of occultism which is offending you, not the ACTUAL definition.

Secondly, pagans don’t worship the Devil. The devil is a Christian “being”. To suggest pagans worship the devil is akin to suggesting that Hindus worship the devil. A good friend of mine is a pagan who regularly visits Stonehenge and had a pagan “wedding” - the whole shibang. She describes her religion as a nature-worshipping religion, native to the British Isles. She practices some “witchcraft”, however as she puts it - it’s their form of prayer. Her “spells” are no more likely to succeed as a prayer - she says it’s like putting in a request.

I do not approve of paganism. I believe it lacks substance and proof. However, I do believe that misconceptions of the nature of paganism are often based on ignorance rather than knowledge of what true paganism is all about.

 

[Teelynn]

I would just like to, for the sake of preserving our language, post the definition of occult.

By that definition, anything “supernatural” or “beyond the realm of human comprehension” is occult. Therefore, the act of communiun is occult. And before everyone else on my forum accuses me of blasphemy for accusing Catholicism of being occult - it is YOUR definition of occultism which is offending you, not the ACTUAL definition.

Secondly, pagans don’t worship the Devil. The devil is a Christian “being”. To suggest pagans worship the devil is akin to suggesting that Hindus worship the devil. A good friend of mine is a pagan who regularly visits Stonehenge and had a pagan “wedding” - the whole shibang. She describes her religion as a nature-worshipping religion, native to the British Isles. She practices some “witchcraft”, however as she puts it - it’s their form of prayer. Her “spells” are no more likely to succeed as a prayer - she says it’s like putting in a request.

I do not approve of paganism. I believe it lacks substance and proof. However, I do believe that misconceptions of the nature of paganism are often based on ignorance rather than knowledge of what true paganism is all about.

Hmm…doesn’t really amount to much to be so technical about definitions, the bottom line is paganism no matter which way you slice it is evil. It’s the worship of idols which is a blatant slap in the face of the one true God. I think the first commandment says it all: Thou shalt honor the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, thy whole soul, and thy whole mind, and thy neighbor as thyself. A definite turning one’s back on God. No doubt about it.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Hmm…doesn’t really amount to much to be so technical about definitions, the bottom line is paganism no matter which way you slice it is evil. It’s the worship of idols which is a blatant slap in the face of the one true God. I think the first commandment says it all: Thou shalt honor the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, thy whole soul, and thy whole mind, and thy neighbor as thyself. A definite turning one’s back on God. No doubt about it.

So by the same logic, Hinduism is evil? As well as Buddhism, and any other belief system that isn’t Christian?

And which pagans worship idols, exactly?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Now that you mention it, doesn’t our Church acknowledge this as well?

 

[LemonAndLime]

I do have problems with it. I studied comparative religion - Paganism vs. Christianity. There is substantial evidence to suggest that the early Christians used the image of one of the popular pagan God’s as the image of the Christian devil (a beast with horns), in an effort to convert the pagans by telling them they were actually worshipping the devil.

Some people’s assesrtions that pagans are devil-worshippers seem to stem from this propaganda.

 

[mdrummer5]

So by the same logic, Hinduism is evil? As well as Buddhism, and any other belief system that isn’t Christian?

Well said, and just to add some perspective, Gandhi (who was Hindu) is a name that most people automatically associate with peace and nonviolence. But because he believed differently some Christians would consider him evil and destined for hell… Jesus on the other hand who was clearly not evil was believed to be the messiah who would bring peace, yet look how many wars were fought in his name.

It’s very ironic that I come here as an adult considering a conversion to Catholicism with questions and I see posts that remind me of why as a child Christianity didn’t make sense to me.

As a child who grew up studying Judaism I heard things like “may all jews go to hell” spoken by one of the sunday school teachers at the church my grandparents used to attend. As a child my thought process was “you want to teach love and compassion for all things, but this fairly large part of the world you would condemn to hell because they believe differently than you?” Thankfully since then I’ve been shown that Christianity and Catholicism is about love not condemnation and that not all Christians are like that… sadly some apparently still are.

 

[Dorothy]

There will always be Christians who do not live by the faith and directives that our Lord taught.

The truth is still the truth in spite of that.

 

[cyberwolf001]

You knew me or Kenny would be in this sooner or later…

Gift of discernment? I hate to burst your bubble but its more like yet another psychological aversion to what goes against your beliefs. Now this is not to say I promote Tarot or anything but really, we all should be mature enough to take a little bit more responsibility for our feelings. (I should know. ) Real cursed objects are a rare find and I highly doubt you’d find one in a mass-manufactured deck like the ones you find in bookstores.

I’d have to agree with it while still in bookstores. Although a deck could be cursed once brought home. Seen it done sometimes as away to get at a person that did them wrong.

Honestly, these things have no “power”. My future, my present, my past, and pretty much everything that is who I am are not determined by well-decorated pieces of cardboard.

As a Tarot reader let me clear this up for you. The cards never have been said to dectate anything. They are tools used to show one how things stand as of right now based on the past and current actions of all involved along with ways to fix the issue.

This is true just look at the philosophies of Greece and Rome. Right now in my ADF group Stoicism is becoming massively popular. For my part I am a Holist, Vitalist and Determinist.

One up and coming writer preaches a very strict form of Fatalism.

This isn’t even getting into all the different forms of Paganism.

The root of the evil is the desire to have special knowledge or control over people or events.

The same could be said for all of modern technology.

And which pagans worship idols, exactly?

I do! Well to clarify I was taught (and believe and professes) that the idol acts as the spirit’s house. So when properly dedicated the idol forms a link to that spirit. Be it a god, ancestor ect. and in worshiping the idol you are worshiping that spirit.

A sort of Pagan version of the real presence but not quite.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Now, now, Jharek we can’t say that by “bad Christians” she was referring to us or to those Pharisees giving Christianity a bad example. Give her a chance to explain herself.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

As a Tarot reader let me clear this up for you. The cards never have been said to dectate anything. They are tools used to show one how things stand as of right now based on the past and current actions of all involved along with ways to fix the issue.

Ah but I was always under the impression that they can look also into one’s future. Frankly, I can’t say I believe in a pre-determined future.

The same could be said for all of modern technology.

You’d have to contend though that modern technology is based on science. I’m not sure about paganism.

 

[Dorothy]

Mdrummer5 wrote:

<<It’s very ironic that I come here as an adult considering a conversion to Catholicism with questions and I see posts that remind me of why as a child Christianity didn’t make sense to me.

As a child who grew up studying Judaism I heard things like “may all jews go to hell” spoken by one of the sunday school teachers at the church my grandparents used to attend. As a child my thought process was “you want to teach love and compassion for all things, but this fairly large part of the world you would condemn to hell because they believe differently than you?” Thankfully since then I’ve been shown that Christianity and Catholicism is about love not condemnation and that not all Christians are like that… sadly some apparently still are. >>

(name removed by moderator),

I should have made my response clearer. I was responding to the above post in which the poster mentioned of his disappointment about the behaviour of Christians, and hearing such things as “may all jews go to hell”.

I responded by saying “There will always be Christians who do not live by the faith and directives of the Church. The truth is still the truth in spite of that.”

I couldn’t understand your response to me at all…I had to figure out what you were being so defensive about.

Peace,

Dorothy

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I can’t blame ya. The rise of the ‘spiritual warriors’ recently has been quite irksome.

Haha! Actually, I’ve been working tirelessly on a fantasy short story that makes fun of such nutters. It saddens me that the more sensible ones are underrated whilst those who end up dying in a reckless charge are considered martyrs.

 

[Dorothy]

Thank you…apology accepted…

Have a blessed New Year!

 

[cyberwolf001]

Ah but I was always under the impression that they can look also into one’s future. Frankly, I can’t say I believe in a pre-determined future.

TV gives that impression. They can see the future as it would happen if everything goes as it is now. Not much point in seeing the future if you cannot change it.

You’d have to contend though that modern technology is based on science. I’m not sure about paganism.

Science can’t account for everything.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I do! Well to clarify I was taught (and believe and professes) that the idol acts as the spirit’s house. So when properly dedicated the idol forms a link to that spirit. Be it a god, ancestor ect. and in worshiping the idol you are worshiping that spirit.

A sort of Pagan version of the real presence but not quite.

But then you’re not worshipping “idols” you’re worshipping the God/Goddess itself. I’m not sure what the definition of idols is, but I thought it was a statue which you believed was the literal embodiment of a spiritual entity. But I think some Christians describe worshipping idols as a different God, which is surely another term… right?

I have many books on the subject, as well as my own deck of tarot cards. However, I just couldn’t “stick” at paganism. The lack of direction and authority was confusing for me, as well as the lack of public community and support.

And I love the CC and the local community as well as the people here on CAF. I’ve always been hovering between Pagan-Atheist-Christian, but its the Christian part which I’ve found myself more “atune” to. I still however have a great deal of respect for paganism. I have felt such a strong feeling for the Catholic Church that it just has to be right for me, I wouldn’t be as bold however as to say it was the only “right” way to God, that I’m not sure on.