Lets lift this sub forum

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Hello Southpaw,

I am just going to share some thought, your mileage may vary …
SouthpawLink said:
So, why don’t we just rename this sub-forum, History of Catholicism?

To me, Traditional Catholicism is about the orthodox expression of dogma, the Traditional Latin Mass and traditional devotions which have been around for ages (such as the Holy Rosary).
…
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Theoretically that has not changed, but most people around here have narrowly defined what a traditional Latin Mass is…
SouthpawLink said:
It appears as though you’re proposing a history sub-forum.
Click to expand...
It seems like it is already a history sub forum.

What this forum seems to be focusing on is late 19th century-early 20th century Latin Catholicism, not traditional Catholicism, and the EF is just a continuation of a single snapshot frozen in time from an arbitrary date, not a reflection of the whole Latin Church tradition. There is much more to it than that.

How about the early rosary, how was it said, when did it change and why? Is it ok to pray an older form? What was the Mass like before pews? How were bishops selected in early Gaul, if it was different once then when or why did that change?

What was the altar curtain? How was that used? Do any parishes still use one?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

There was a time when most western Europeans were Roman Catholic and yet most of them did not use the Roman ritual, that is traditional Catholicism too. That is the worship of your predecessors and ancestors. It is out of that milieu that the customs and traditions many hold so dear were born.

Maybe the forum name should be “Latin Church Customs and Traditions”

http://followmyfilm.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/follow-my-film-directing-001_3.jpg?w=595&h=445

http://cinemasights.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/flowersofstfrancis-glimpsesofglory.jpg?w=300&h=227
 
Hello Southpaw,

I am just going to share some thought, your mileage may vary …
SouthpawLink said:
So, why don’t we just rename this sub-forum, History of Catholicism?

To me, Traditional Catholicism is about the orthodox expression of dogma, the Traditional Latin Mass and traditional devotions which have been around for ages (such as the Holy Rosary).
…
Click to expand...
Theoretically that has not changed, but most people around here have narrowly defined what a traditional Latin Mass is…
SouthpawLink said:
It appears as though you’re proposing a history sub-forum.
Click to expand...
It seems like it is already a history sub forum.

What this forum seems to be focusing on is late 19th century-early 20th century Latin Catholicism, not traditional Catholicism, and the EF is just a continuation of a single snapshot frozen in time from an arbitrary date, not a reflection of the whole Latin Church tradition. There is much more to it than that.

How about the early rosary, how was it said, when did it change and why? Is it ok to pray an older form? What was the Mass like before pews? How were bishops selected in early Gaul, if it was different once then when or why did that change?

What was the altar curtain? How was that used? Do any parishes still use one?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

There was a time when most western Europeans were Roman Catholic and yet most of them did not use the Roman ritual, that is traditional Catholicism too. That is the worship of your predecessors and ancestors. It is out of that milieu that the customs and traditions many hold so dear were born.

Maybe the forum name should be “Latin Church Customs and Traditions”

http://followmyfilm.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/follow-my-film-directing-001_3.jpg?w=595&h=445
 
I pray this gets off the ground. I am open to the decision of others.

peace
 
christosdavid said:
The following list is a sample of good areas to discuss under the heading, “Traditional Catholicism”. It’s not exhaustive; but it’s a place to start.

Extraordinary Form of the Liturgy
Church History
Classics of Western Spirituality
Classics in Western Theology
Customs
Church writings
The Fathers of the Church
The Desert Fathers & Mothers
The great schools of Western spirituality
The stories of the saints
Western religious orders and religious congregations

I propose we study a book. lets have recommendations of something thats availiable over the internet and encourage each other by studying it together.

This thread is just to hear what we’d like to study.

I personally love St. Augustine, perhaps something against Donatism? That way we gat to defend our Catholic faith in our commenatry, be uplifted by a doctor of the church and slam heretics all at the same time :D;)

seriously. the CCEL has such books availiable to all, would anyone care to join in?
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I like your idea. But do you want us all to read like an online book for the month and then comment back? How exactly does this work?
 
Let the OP pick a book, tract, encyclical…and suggest the thread. See where it goes?

peace
 
I’m in. I’ll go with whatever the OP chooses. I am fairly new to traditional Catholicism, though it’s something that I have always felt drawn too (well, depending on which definition of ‘traditional’ you use). So if we can choose something accessible to a beginner, that’d be wonderful 👍
 
tlimon said:
Where is the OP?
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LOL I don’t think the OP wants to be the organizer.
christosdavid said:
There seems to be alot of suggestions 😃 Im glad, out of all these how will we decide?

After all, they are all good, and I would be happy to join any of them.

Maybe if someone could make a poll out of it and if we are willing to go with the one voted for the most (democratic eh?) then we could read that…

thanks for all the suggestions 👍
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TrueLight said:
LOL I don’t think the OP wants to be the organizer.
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sorry, I wanted to see what other suggestions would be made.

I already suggested St. Augustine versus the Donatists (or perhaps on the Trinity) but if you think I should make the decision I would suggest that we can

i. read the same book and comment on it to each other

ii. read whatever and comment on how it helps serve each others needs.

If we read the same book, maybe we could get back to each other weekly after a given chapter. write about our impressions of the chapter.

a. What doctrinal material is there?
b. What devotional material is there?
c. What apologetic material and
d. What would we suggest in “improving” what was written to talk to our worldview.

by d. I dont mean to change good doctrine into heresy but there are jumps in worldview even between someone as great as Augustine and our age (eg. The Roman Empire had instituted slavery, which no longer exists. This may well be styled to employees and Masters as Employers etc)

Here is a link from New Advent to the book On the Trinity if thats what we decide to read:
Code: 
 [newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm)
the same link at CCEL
Code: 
[ccel.org/index/author/A](http://www.ccel.org/index/author/A)
If you want to read this with me, then I guess we can make a start. I’m very interested in historical statements as well as lingustic comments if people are willing and able…👍
 
christosdavid said:
sorry, I wanted to see what other suggestions would be made.
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Well it’s been a week and nobody has made a decision. I’m going to continue listening to Newman MP3s before bed, y’all can talk about talking about talking.
 
christosdavid said:
sorry, I wanted to see what other suggestions would be made.

I already suggested St. Augustine versus the Donatists (or perhaps on the Trinity) but if you think I should make the decision I would suggest that we can

i. read the same book and comment on it to each other

ii. read whatever and comment on how it helps serve each others needs.

If we read the same book, maybe we could get back to each other weekly after a given chapter. write about our impressions of the chapter.

a. What doctrinal material is there?
b. What devotional material is there?
c. What apologetic material and
d. What would we suggest in “improving” what was written to talk to our worldview.

by d. I dont mean to change good doctrine into heresy but there are jumps in worldview even between someone as great as Augustine and our age (eg. The Roman Empire had instituted slavery, which no longer exists. This may well be styled to employees and Masters as Employers etc)

Here is a link from New Advent to the book On the Trinity if thats what we decide to read:
Code: 
 [newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm)
the same link at CCEL
Code: 
[ccel.org/index/author/A](http://www.ccel.org/index/author/A)
If you want to read this with me, then I guess we can make a start. I’m very interested in historical statements as well as lingustic comments if people are willing and able…👍
Click to expand...
I’m fine with On the Trinity. Shall we start folks? We can just begin a new thread under the title of the book.

The chapters seem to be pretty short, so I would just recommend studying the book for maybe a month and people can chime in wherever they are as opposed to setting one chapter a week.

Let’s also agree to start this new thread by tomorrow. We just need to get started!

What do you folks think?
 
It was too late to edit my post, so I am reposting.

Why don’t we all choose either Augustine
OP, I posted the Donatists link above, but if this is not the one you are referring to, please post a link.

Le’ts choose one. We can do a quick tally and by tomorrow start a new thread discussing the book.

I’ll start.

I pick the book against the Donatists because I’ve always wanted to learn about the different heresies that existed and how they were refuted.

Which one would you like folks?
 
I vote for On The Trinity, merely because it sounds a little more “fundamental” and I am a noob to Trad issues. But either sounds good!

I like the one month timeframe.
 
I happy to do both, if were responding on a monthly timetable then it should fit in with the other nicely.

Of course, if you only want one, then thats fine too.

Ive been studying Augustine for a considerable while now, I enjoy the perspective he brings to Scripture and Theology.

His work on the trinity is different to most of his works, due largley to the fact that although it is controversial (ie being against arians) it was written over such a large time scale and is not addressed to any given movement in North Africa, the way that his anti-Donatist, Manichaen or Pelagian writings are addressed to various church leaders and City of God against the pagans of his time and culture.

The controversy with the Donatists predates Augustine and has to be reviewed with the history surrounding it from Cyprians time until it finally the schism is ended.

Both are good and interesting so what I’ll do is start a thread where we can discuss Augustine and his writings and it can start with against the Donatists and go from there.
 
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