Let's put the shoe on the other foot

[Booklover]

Do you consider yourself a representative of the Church?

If you do, what right do you have to call me on taking you at your word?

I know cestusdei is a representative of the Church…he’s a priest. I don’t feel even a twitch of unfairness judging the whole Church based a large sample of more knowledgeable members.

I was speaking as an individual! Being Catholic does not mean that we cannot think for ourselves and I don’t feel a twitch of unfairness in judging Islam by the violent actions of its members either! As another poster said, Islam is as Islam does!

As long as Muslims keep committing atrocities all over the world, my perception of Islam will not change! Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil.

From now on, you’re on my ignore list too!

 

[maryj]

You’re right, your’re right. I used to engage him, too, believing that he was a Catholic heavily influenced by our relativist society. But I think we’ve all reached the threshold of tolerance.

Only one thing I have left to say, I checked out his public profile, he’s 26 years old, this may be a generalization but I haven’t really met a 20 somethinger that knew much about the world. even though I’m sure they will disagree, as did I when I was that age!!!

 

[jonfan]

If you take one shoe off and put it on the other foot, you’ll notice it doesn’t fit and you can’t walk properly with it.

That’s about as accurate a description of the opening post as I can give.

Pro the thread is accurate. It’s true. If we had the same reactions as Catholics it would be more fodder for the haters.

 

[Pug]

Man A in Rome will stand in St. Peter’s Square and make derogatory remarks about the Pope, Jesus, and the Catholic Church.

Man B in Mecca will stand by the Ka’ba and make derogatory remarks about various sheiks, imams, ayatollahs, Muhammed and Islam.

Are you sure the two have the same level of significance? Offhand, I’d say the Ka’ba or the area there has more significance for them than the actual square does for us. The do always pray oriented toward it, don’t they?

I think you could get a violent response from some Christians if someone were threatening the contents of the tabernacle. I’m not saying the Ka’ba is of this level. I’m just saying that level might matter.

 

[cestusdei]

Well Christian churches have been burned this week. Do you see crowds of Christians rioting and killing?

 

[Pug]

Well Christian churches have been burned this week. Do you see crowds of Christians rioting and killing?

Actually, I was more thinking of the immediacy portion of Andrei’s post, the part about being attacked while doing the annoying behavior, and not something happening afterwards.

No, I don’t see the riots you ask about. It would be unlikely. The behavior puzzles me and seems odd. It represents to me that they are in a different circumstance from me, or have different ideals, or some unknown. I try to understand it by comparison to something I know, but have no success.

 

[pro_universal]

Now you have gone too far. Where did you hear a priest advocate nuking mecca? Not some vague reference, but specifics, please. Pardon most of us if we don’t believe you.

Ask cestusdei about it. He said it right here on this forum.

 

[pro_universal]

people give him a reason by still thinking he was Christian.

Oh no, not this again.

I’ve noticed a trend in every single one of these threads. If anyone implies that the viper’s nest of attacks on Islam might be unjustified, that person is automatically labelled “A muslim or a dhimmi!”

Now this follows with a long list of “neener neener, we ignored you!” posts.

As far as I can tell, I didn’t personally attack any of you. Can you all look back at your posts to me and say the same?

 

[cestusdei]

I am more upset with you for defending and excusing Islamic terrorism. Your attitude does seem to bear a striking resemblence to dhimmi. I have yet to see you being critical of any Islamic leader who has thus far threatened the pope with death or even the ones that murdered the elderly nun. I find that quite strange. Now of course instead of dealing with that you will immediately attack me. I suppose that is safer then saying something negative about Islam.

 

[hosemonkey]

Pro_Universal, I think that what everybody on this forum is trying to tell you is that you need to stop this juvenile arguing, go be a moslem, grow up and get a life. Nothing that anyone has said here seems to have made any kind of impression on you and frankly, I’m tired of this whole discussion. Any favorable impression of Islam is negated in the news by the hysterical ranting of various and sundry moslem “leaders” squalling about “insults to Islam, insults to the prophet, the Pope must die”, ad nauseum. If it is war they want, let’s get to it. That is what they would like to have. And if they wish to meet Allah, let’s arrange the meeting. Let’s clear Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, have the SeaBees blacktop the whole area and put a Super Wal-Mart right in the middle. Have done, sir, just go.

 

[pro_universal]

Pro_Universal, I think that what everybody on this forum is trying to tell you is that you need to stop this juvenile arguing, go be a moslem, grow up and get a life.

Wait, there’s a religious discussion board called “non catholic religions”, and I come here to discuss other religions, and that’s “juvenile arguing” that requires me to “go be a moslem”?

Is the “juvenile” the fact that I think condemnations of Islam are unwarranted and say so, or is it the fact that I include mentioning that I’m not Catholic? Confused on that point…clear it up for me if you could.

Nothing that anyone has said here seems to have made any kind of impression on you and frankly, I’m tired of this whole discussion.

What would constitute an impression? I’ve certainly had impressions of angry, closed minded people. Being called a liar, Muslim, juvenile, etc etc etc are all impression generating experiences.

But what sort of impression were you looking for? Are you upset that I didn’t start condemning Islam, or that I’m not converting back to being Catholic?

Any favorable impression of Islam is negated in the news by the hysterical ranting of various and sundry moslem “leaders” squalling about “insults to Islam, insults to the prophet, the Pope must die”, ad nauseum. If it is war they want, let’s get to it.

Well, that certainly makes an impression. Funny…I see tons of talk here about how Jesus never itched for a fight, but it seems that very few of his followers seem to consider this an important message.

 

[Pug]

I see tons of talk here about how Jesus never itched for a fight, but it seems that very few of his followers seem to consider this an important message.

People are people, but even so, I am mildly surprised that this has been your overall experience. Is this hyperbole and only really a comment about hosemonkey?

 

[hosemonkey]

Wait, there’s a religious discussion board called “non catholic religions”, and I come here to discuss other religions, and that’s “juvenile arguing” that requires me to “go be a moslem”?

Is the “juvenile” the fact that I think condemnations of Islam are unwarranted and say so, or is it the fact that I include mentioning that I’m not Catholic? Confused on that point…clear it up for me if you could.

What would constitute an impression? I’ve certainly had impressions of angry, closed minded people. Being called a liar, Muslim, juvenile, etc etc etc are all impression generating experiences.

But what sort of impression were you looking for? Are you upset that I didn’t start condemning Islam, or that I’m not converting back to being Catholic?

Well, that certainly makes an impression. Funny…I see tons of talk here about how Jesus never itched for a fight, but it seems that very few of his followers seem to consider this an important message.

I’m done with you. You’re on my ignore list.

 

[mary_bobo]

Ask cestusdei about it. He said it right here on this forum.

I was responding to your post. I did not see one from cestusdei stating the same thing. Again, I WAS RESPONDING TO YOUR POST.

 

[pro_universal]

I was responding to your post. I did not see one from cestusdei stating the same thing. Again, I WAS RESPONDING TO YOUR POST.

?? I was answerning your question. Cestusdei is a Priest. He also says that it would be a good idea to use nuclear weapons on Mecca and Medina in order to scare terrorists into not attacking America.

There’s the Priest who advocates using nuclear weapons.

 

[thechrismyster]

Is the “juvenile” the fact that I think condemnations of Islam are unwarranted and say so, or is it the fact that I include mentioning that I’m not Catholic? Confused on that point…clear it up for me if you could…

Let me help.
Juvenile is the fact you are a muslim on a Catholic board pretending not to be a muslim.
We know you say your not. but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, swims and flys like a duck.

its probably a duck.

you’re not here to debate, you’re here to convince. and there is a difference which you understand, but for the sake of your beliefs, you ignore.

 

[pro_universal]

Let me help.
Juvenile is the fact you are a muslim on a Catholic board pretending not to be a muslim.
We know you say your not. but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, swims and flys like a duck.

its probably a duck.

Okay, what is this? Is there a “muslim grammatical pattern” or something you are using to make this assessment?

For the hundreth time, I am not Muslim. I’m amazed at having to repeat myself because your field of reference is so narrow that you can’t possibly fathom a non-Muslim who says good things about Muslims.

you’re not here to debate, you’re here to convince. and there is a difference which you understand, but for the sake of your beliefs, you ignore.

What??? So I’m trying to convince people to what exactly? Not hate Muslims? His Holiness John Paul II was on the same mission…does that mean he was a “muslim” too?

You are all out of hand on this forum. It’s happening to another poster too, Rolltide…even though he’s less impressed with Islam than I am, I’ve already seen a poster claiming he’s a Muslim or “Muslim sympathizer.”

The bottom line is, many people posting right here on this forum are so virulently anti-Muslim, that anyone who says anything contrary to their opinions is branded any number of derogatory labels.

I can’t even count the number of times I have been called a liar, juvenile, “fake catholic”, muslim, “dhimmi”, “terrorist supporter”, and so on on this board.

Leaving the Church was a tough decision for me, but despite the genuinely good people I meet within it, I’m convinced that the rank and file is completely unpenetrated by the spirit of learning and the ethic of peace.

I’m secure in my decision for other reasons, but I’m actually happy to have left my association with some of you behind.

 

[Saint_Michael]

Pro_Universal,

You need to grow up and stop all this blubbering, you are acting like a kid who didn’t get his way and is screaming and slamming his door on the way to his room.

If you want to leave, then leave, I hope you reconsider but you have issues to work out anyway, you’re too angry and probably need to work something out for yoruself first. Like I said with your attitude you won’t find peace anywhere, not in Islam, not in Judaism, etc… You’ll be another angry Muslim screaming on a Friday afternoon and burning something in effigy after attending mosque. You will be just as angry as you are now. Until you grow up, and start trying to work on your own attitude and stop trying to change everyone elses by having temper tantrums on message boards.

But if you want to leave then just leave, and have some dignity and just walk away.

 

[thechrismyster]

secure in my decision for other reasons, but I’m actually happy to have left my association with some of you behind.

GOOD TRADE!
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[pro_universal]

Pro_Universal,

You need to grow up and stop all this blubbering, you are acting like a kid who didn’t get his way and is screaming and slamming his door on the way to his room.

If you want to leave, then leave, I hope you reconsider but you have issues to work out anyway, you’re too angry and probably need to work something out for yoruself first. Like I said with your attitude you won’t find peace anywhere, not in Islam, not in Judaism, etc… You’ll be another angry Muslim screaming on a Friday afternoon and burning something in effigy after attending mosque. You will be just as angry as you are now. Until you grow up, and start trying to work on your own attitude and stop trying to change everyone elses by having temper tantrums on message boards.

But if you want to leave then just leave, and have some dignity and just walk away.

Wait, what does “just walk away” mean? Are you saying that no non-Catholics should be on this forum?

It’s funny, I don’t know how much more clear I can make it that I am gone from the Church, ie, no longer a part of it. But I still get this “well, if you want to leave, just leave…do it already.” I did it a while ago.

But I still come to this forum to discuss religious topics with Catholics. I know the Catholic system, I know many individual Catholics, and I like discussing religion and politics. So I’m confused as to why you think it is I’m “not leaving” or at least “not leaving with dignity.”

What exactly would “leaving with dignity” be to you?