Lets see Rome and Copenhagen comment on this one

JRPO · Dec 22, 2009

spn82756 said:
I’m still waiting to reach a point where I can truly say that 5% of the my co-workers across the country are honestly proponents of AGCC. Now of course…NOAA’s official stance is that it is happening. But that also depends on the current administration. We’re back to people who carry the AGW banner being in power. And just think of what will happen when the the several million degree temp of the earth’s core works its way to the surface. The solar system will no longer need the much colder sun…but will depend on the earth for heat and energy! :harp:

So getting back to the heading of this thread…
Where are the leaders of the Catholic Church coming from???

CHESTERTONRULES · Dec 22, 2009

JRPO said:
So getting back to the heading of this thread…
Where are the leaders of the Catholic Church coming from???

The statements I’ve read from Church leadership are very vague and non committal.

For example, we all agree that we should be good stewards of the earth, and that we shouldn’t knowlingly damage our environment beyond repair.

I haven’t seen anything specific related to carbon dioxide, for example.

Am I missing something?

sidbrown · Dec 22, 2009

spn82756 said:
My friend…doubting is not showing. You’ve discounted everything article, website, or letter shown.

I love what the huge AGCC backer says…the center of the earth is millions of degrees hot!

Well. where is the list of 30,000 scientists who are global warming skeptics? Where is the resume of their papers? If you have the list, why not show it to us instead of engaging in hysterical personal attacks? The fact is that the Senate Minority Report on Global Warming was generated by a Senator who believes global warming to be a hoax. In this report there are listed 687 “dissenting scientists” who argue agaimst global warming. However, on further investigation, of the 687 dissenting scinetists listed there, only about 20 percent have ever published peer reviewed climate research. that means 138 dissenting scientists. So although it is claimed here that there are 30,000 dissenting scientists, the actual number appears to be much less, something like 140.

qui_est_ce · Dec 22, 2009

sidbrown said:
Melting glaciers:
worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html

This has already been tried on the other thread. Did you take these pictures? Did you actually SEE before and after?

We are basically putting our faith in one theory or the other. Global Warming advocates have lost all credibility.

spn82756 · Dec 22, 2009

sidbrown said:
Well. where is the list of 30,000 scientists who are global warming skeptics? Where is the resume of their papers? If you have the list, why not show it to us instead of engaging in hysterical personal attacks? The fact is that the Senate Minority Report on Global Warming was generated by a Senator who believes global warming to be a hoax. In this report there are listed 687 “dissenting scientists” who argue agaimst global warming. However, on further investigation, of the 687 dissenting scinetists listed there, only about 20 percent have ever published peer reviewed climate research. that means 138 dissenting scientists. So although it is claimed here that there are 30,000 dissenting scientists, the actual number appears to be much less, something like 140.

And where are all the papers from the scientists that say there is AGCC. BTW…as mentioned earlier…you have poo pooed EVERY site that has been referred to you. So what is the point?

I defer to post #24.

po18guy · Dec 22, 2009

JRPO said:
Yes well why does The Holy Father in Rome join in and say that we need to look after the enviroment and many other clergy around the world siding with the lefties.

Most environmental damage on earth does not lead to, or contribute to alleged warming. Warming is not the danger - even if it were occurring. Basic air, ground and water pollution is the problem. It ruins the sources of potable water, clouds the air and negatively impacts human life by reducing arable land and food production. This is what we are called to take action on. However, the Holy Father also realizes that corrupt governmental forms are also a hazard to mankind.

sidbrown · Dec 22, 2009

spn82756 said:
And where are all the papers from the scientists that say there is AGCC. BTW…as mentioned earlier…you have poo pooed EVERY site that has been referred to you. So what is the point?

I defer to post #24.

Let us see the list of 30,000 scientists who are skeptical of global warming. I still don;t see the list.

spn82756 · Dec 22, 2009

po18guy said:
Most environmental damage on earth does not lead to, or contribute to alleged warming. Warming is not the danger - even if it were occurring. Basic air, ground and water pollution is the problem. It ruins the sources of potable water, clouds the air and negatively impacts human life by reducing arable land and food production. This is what we are called to take action on. However, the Holy Father also realizes that corrupt governmental forms are also a hazard to mankind.

Well spoken!

qui_est_ce · Dec 22, 2009

sidbrown said:
Let us see the list of 30,000 scientists who are skeptical of global warming. I still don;t see the list.

petitionproject.org/

Are you gonna reject that site too?

spn82756 · Dec 22, 2009

qui_est_ce said:
petitionproject.org/

Are you gonna reject that site too?

And why woudn’t he? It is counter to his belief. I guess one of the most troubling aspects of these global warming hoax threads is that there is little that can be done to even get the AGCC proponents to recognize that they might be wrong on even ONE thing.

qui_est_ce · Dec 22, 2009

spn82756 said:
And why woudn’t he? It is counter to his belief. I guess one of the most troubling aspects of these global warming hoax threads is that there is little that can be done to even get the AGCC proponents to recognize that they might be wrong on even ONE thing.

Or to demonize skeptics.

I have seen skeptics accused of not caring about their fellow man, polluting, being ignorant of the facts, etc.

They seem bent on invalidating any criticism.

Climate is changing. I haven’t been convinced there is anything we can do about it, and certainly those who have actively proposed that there is something we can do about it have grossly discredited themselves.

spn82756 · Dec 22, 2009

qui_est_ce said:
Or to demonize skeptics.

I have seen skeptics accused of not caring about their fellow man, polluting, being ignorant of the facts, etc.

They seem bent on invalidating any criticism.

Climate is changing. I haven’t been convinced there is anything we can do about it, and certainly those who have actively proposed that there is something we can do about it have grossly discredited themselves.

***Exactly!

dusza · Dec 22, 2009

A bit off-topic, but a fun thing to peruse. A list of things caused by climate change:

numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

I kind of wish it was a joke, but unfortunately it is a real compilation of some outrageous propaganda.

sidbrown · Dec 22, 2009

qui_est_ce said:
petitionproject.org/

Are you gonna reject that site too?

No.
This is the list that I was looking for.
However, it does not give the percentage of those listed who are climatologists. Still, it is interesting that there are more than 30,000 people listed.

sidbrown · Dec 22, 2009

qui_est_ce said:
petitionproject.org/

Are you gonna reject that site too?

I was interested and thought that you were being honest about this, but on further investigation, I find that this claime has been easily debunked by the statistics given in the website itself:
petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php
Of the 30,000 signers only 39 have an education in climatology. Even if we include the 112 in atmospheric science, it amounts to less than 200 of the 30,000 signers have an education in climatology or atmospheric science.
For further information on this see:
huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/the-30000-global-warming_b_243092.html

spn82756 · Dec 22, 2009

HUH?

Code:

       Qualifications of Signers
       Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list          if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of      Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields.      The petition has been circulated only in the United States.      
       The current list of       petition signers includes      9,029 PhD;      7,157 MS;      2,586 MD and DVM; and      12,714 BS or equivalent academic degrees.      Most of the MD and DVM signers also have  underlying degrees in      basic science.     
      All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of      specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the      research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers      currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric,     environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields      directly involved in the climate change controversy. 
       The Petition Project classifies petition signers on the basis of their formal      academic training, as summarized below. Scientists often pursue specialized      fields of endeavor that are different from their formal education, but their      underlying training can be applied to any scientific field in which they become      interested.
       Outlined below are the numbers of Petition Project signatories, subdivided by      educational specialties. These have been combined, as indicated, into seven      categories.
       1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes      3,804 scientists      trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment      of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.
       2. Computer and  mathematical sciences includes         935 scientists trained in      computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming      hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections      and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially      important in evaluating this hypothesis.     
           3. Physics and  aerospace sciences include         5,812 scientists trained      in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids,      and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties      of the atmosphere and Earth.
       4. Chemistry includes     4,821 scientists trained      in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which      the atmosphere and Earth are composed.
       5. Biology and  agriculture includes         2,965        scientists trained in the functional and  environmental requirements of          living things on the Earth.
       6. Medicine includes     3,046             scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of           human beings on the Earth.
           7. Engineering and general science includes     10,103        scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties          required to maintain modern civilization and the  prosperity required          for all human actions, including environmental programs.

The following outline gives a more detailed analysis of the signers’ educations.
Atmosphere, Earth, & Environment (3,804)
1. Atmosphere (579)

I) Atmospheric Science (112)
II) Climatology (39)
III) Meteorology (343)
IV) Astronomy (59)
V) Astrophysics (26)

Code:

         2. Earth (2,239)                                        I) Earth Science (94)

II) Geochemistry (63)
III) Geology (1,683)
IV) Geophysics (341)
V) Geoscience (36)
VI) Hydrology (22)

Code:

         3. Environment (986)                                        I) Environmental Engineering (487)

II) Environmental Science (253)
III) Forestry (163)
IV) Oceanography (83)

Code:

         [/INDENT]Computers & Math (935)
                              1. Computer Science (242)          
     2. Math (693)          [INDENT]                              I) Mathematics (581)

II) Statistics (112)

Code:

         [/INDENT]Physics & Aerospace (5,812)
                              1. Physics (5,225)          [INDENT]                              I) Physics (2,365)

II) Nuclear Engineering (223)
III) Mechanical Engineering (2,637)

Code:

         2. Aerospace Engineering (587)

Chemistry (4,821)
1. Chemistry (3,128)
2. Chemical Engineering (1,693)
Biochemistry, Biology, & Agriculture (2,965)
1. Biochemistry (744)

I) Biochemistry (676)
II) Biophysics (68)

Code:

         2. Biology (1,438)                                        I) Biology (1,049)

II) Ecology (76)
III) Entomology (59)
IV) Zoology (149)
V) Animal Science (105)

Code:

         3. Agriculture (783)                                        I) Agricultural Science (296)

II) Agricultural Engineering (114)
III) Plant Science (292)
IV) Food Science (81)

Code:

         [/INDENT]Medicine (3,046)
                             1. Medical Science (719)          
     2. Medicine (2,327)

General Engineering & General Science (10,103)
1. General Engineering (9,834)

I) Engineering (7,281)
II) Electrical Engineering (2,169)
III) Metallurgy (384)

Code:

         2. General Science (269)

spn82756 · Dec 22, 2009

sidbrown said:
I was interested and thought that you were being honest about this, but on further investigation, I find that this claime has been easily debunked by the statistics given in the website itself:
petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php
Of the 30,000 signers only 39 have an education in climatology. Even if we include the 112 in atmospheric science, it amounts to less than 200 of the 30,000 signers have an education in climatology or atmospheric science.
For further information on this see:
huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/the-30000-global-warming_b_243092.html

Ah…maybe you would do well to investigate what a degree in Atmospheric Physics… or ALL the subsets there of entails.

I was waiting for your denial.

My feet are getting very warm. Your poster child’s evaluation of the earth’s core temp is apparently true.

po18guy · Dec 22, 2009

sidbrown said:
I was interested and thought that you were being honest about this, but on further investigation, I find that this claime has been easily debunked by the statistics given in the website itself:
petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php
Of the 30,000 signers only 39 have an education in climatology. Even if we include the 112 in atmospheric science, it amounts to less than 200 of the 30,000 signers have an education in climatology or atmospheric science.
For further information on this see:
huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/the-30000-global-warming_b_243092.html

Let’s forget the numbers for a moment, please. All scientists are trained and/or experienced in the scientific method and quickly spot flaws in methodology and raw data. Does the truth matter at all, or is the agenda more important?

po18guy · Dec 22, 2009

qui_est_ce said:
Or to demonize skeptics. I have seen skeptics accused of not caring about their fellow man, polluting, being ignorant of the facts…

The elephant in the living room of many activists is their incredible arrogance and egotism. They completely discount alternative thought and reject the concept of prudential judgment. If this seems to some a stereotype, may they please rail against those who form it rather than those who use their senses to perceive it.

Calliso · Dec 22, 2009

sidbrown said:
I was interested and thought that you were being honest about this, but on further investigation, I find that this claime has been easily debunked by the statistics given in the website itself:
petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php
Of the 30,000 signers only 39 have an education in climatology. Even if we include the 112 in atmospheric science, it amounts to less than 200 of the 30,000 signers have an education in climatology or atmospheric science.
For further information on this see:
huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/the-30000-global-warming_b_243092.html

Not to mention you have to wonder of the small handful which appear to actually have a degree in a relevant field how many actually published papers on the field. And how many of them would actually sign the petition today.

I thought this post was good too. greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/what-if-the-oregon-petition-names-were-real/ and it links to several other links

Lets see Rome and Copenhagen comment on this one

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