Let's talk about Mormonism

[gazelam]

I’ll take a crack at these…

Why did most Mormons give up belief in the Adam-God doctrine?

One of the principles that governs the LDS Church is “Common Consent”. D&C 26:2 states "And all things shall be done by common consent in the church, by much prayer and faith, for all things you shall receive by faith. Amen.

Regarding “Common Consent” Elder Bruce R, McConkie wrote “administrative affairs of the Church are handled in accordance with the law of common consent. This law is that in God’s earthly kingdom, the King counsels what should be done, but then he allows his subjects to accept or reject his proposals. Unless the principle of free agency is operated in righteousness men do not progress to ultimate salvation in the heavenly kingdom hereafter.”.

Both local and general officers are presented to the pertinent congregation for acceptance. A similar process happens with LDS scripture. The last time this occurred that I’m aware of was in 1976 when the revelations that later became D&C section 137 & 138 were canonized as LDS scripture. See The Sustaining of Church Officers at the 6:48 mark to watch the proposal for inclusion as scripture and the members accepting the proposal.

The Adam-God doctrine was never presented to the Church for acceptance. Prophets after Brigham Young did not teach this doctrine. So, when you asked when Mormons stopped believing it, is was never presented to the LDS Church membership for formal acceptance.
"adamhovey1988:

If polygamy is necessary for exaltation, why doesn’t the mainstream LDS church practice it in secret if they have to?**

Polygamy (or “plural marriage” as LDS refer to the practice) is NOT necessary for exaltation/Eternal life in LDS doctrine. The Book of Mormon states in Jacob 2:26-30:

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

In a nutshell, the Lord forbids polygamy, except (per verse 30) in certain times when He commands the practice. Monogamy is the rule, and plural marriage is the exception.

PART 1 OF RESPONSE, MORE TO FOLLOW…

 

[gazelam]

PART 2 OF RESPONSE…

If Mormon missionaries are telling me that they believe the Book of Mormon by the power of the Holy Ghost, how can the Holy Ghost be telling them if it’s truth, when Mormons if I recall correctly, don’t believe that the Holy Ghost can be in more than one place at one time?

While the Holy Ghost can only be in one place, His influence can be felt everywhere. The sun is a good analogy. The sun is located far away, but everyone is affected by the sun.

If God the father was once a man, like human like we are, is it part of Mormon scripture, about how he lived and died? If not, why not?

Very little is known about this doctrine, To the best of my knowledge John 5:19 comes closest to hinting at this doctrine.

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (KJV)

So, is Jesus patterning His mortal life after the Father’s mortal life?

Since, God is finite in Mormonism why should we worship this God, and not all the gods?
[/quote]

Because Jesus commanded us to worship His and our Heavenly Father, not any of the other divine being in existence.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

Why doesn’t the mainstream LDS church practice the law of consecration?

As mentioned earlier, we covenant to do so. Currently we are commanded to live the lower law of tithing. Hopefully some day the membership will be ready to live the law of consecration.

Why don’t Mormons believe that God can forgive all sins through the blood of Jesus Christ? This is called the doctrine of blood atonement, why do they not believe Jesus is blood is good enough to forgive all sins?

The Bible tells us that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven.

Why should I believe that the Salt Lake City Mormons are the true church, and not the ones in Independence, Missouri like Temple lot? Or the FLDS out west? Why don’t most Mormons follow descendants of Joseph Smith?

In the LDS church the First Presidency is the preeminent governing body. When the President dies the First Presidency is dissolved, at which time the 12 Apostles become the governing body until a new First Presidency is constituted. When Joseph Smith died, Brigham Young was the President of the 12 Apostles, so he became the presiding official the that time. The First Presidency was later reconstituted with Brigham Young as President.

These are just a few questions I have, and if anyone has any more go ahead and add them.

I hope this helps…

 

[anon82300119]

In a nutshell, the Lord forbids polygamy, except (per verse 30) in certain times when He commands the practice. Monogamy is the rule, and plural marriage is the exception.

For the purpose of raising up seed. And that explains why he stole other men’s wives? And how many children did he produce from his 30-40 wives?

 

[gazelam]

Since, God is finite in Mormonism why should we worship this God, and not all the gods?

Also, for the record LDS do NOT believe that God is finite.

 

[anon82300119]

Brigham Young said he never gave a sermon that was not scripture.

 

[gazelam]

Sincere question. Why are women unable to receive exultation on their own?

1 Peter 3:7 (KJV) Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Per this passage, Eternal Life is only given to husbands and wives together. I hope this helps…

 

[gazelam]

I think we make a huge mistake when we base truth on emotions and emotions alone, I know my feelings have been wrong multiple times.

The LDS teaching is that we need to study these matters for ourselves first and then ask God whether it’s true. The answer comes through both reason and the Holy Ghost.

You know, the odd thing is that Joseph Smith boasted that he was able to keep the Church of Christ together, something that not even Jesus could do. I mean that is, according to Smith.

John 14:12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.

Jesus said that His disciples will do greater works than Jesus himself did.

 

[Marie5890]

You and CourtingTex are not in agreement.

 

[anon82300119]

The LDS teaching is that we need to study these matters for ourselves first and then ask God whether it’s true. The answer comes through both reason and the Holy Ghost.

The same Holy Ghost that testifies to JWs that their church is true and Community of Christ that theirs is, and Catholics that theirs is, and … ?

I have read and studied and fasted and prayed about the truthfulness of the BoM and according to your conclusion, I know without a shred of doubt that it is not true.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Well, you’re using that logic to prove your point. I honestly don’t think we should ever base things on feelings alone, truth is not something because we feel it is true. I could feel that the cultural revolution under Chairman Mao was a good thing, and it was something that was needed, but that doesn’t make it true. It’s true that it happened, but it’s not true that it was good.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Well yeah, that’s actually a good question.

 

[gazelam]

Well, you’re using that logic to prove your point. I honestly don’t think we should ever base things on feelings alone, truth is not something because we feel it is true. I could feel that the cultural revolution under Chairman Mao was a good thing, and it was something that was needed, but that doesn’t make it true. It’s true that it happened, but it’s not true that it was good.

I’m 100% with you on Chairman Mao not doing good. And I’m extremely grateful for the efforts of Pope John Paul II helping bring down the Iron Curtain.

1 Corinthians 12:3 states: Therefore, I tell you that nobody speaking by the spirit of God says, “Jesus be accursed.” And no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the holy Spirit.

Do you think that this verse is incorrect? Do you think it is correct, but that it’s unnecessary to actually know for certain that Jesus is Lord? Do you prefer to just hope that Jesus is Lord so that you don’t have to base your belief on the Holy Spirit? The verse is pretty limiting as far as how to know that Jesus is divine.

 

[Sarcelle]

So single people who die do not have an afterlife but face complete annihilation at death?

 

[gazelam]

So single people who die do not have an afterlife but face complete annihilation at death?

A good question… we believe that all those who do their best to keep God’s commandments in this life and through no fault of their own cannot find a spouse will have the opportunity to do so in the next life.

Also, LDS belief that those who purposely avoid marriage but live an otherwise righteous life can still live in the presence of God the Father, but without inheriting His fully glory. So, whatever you make of that, it’s nothing close to annihilation. I hope this helps…

 

[Sarcelle]

Yes it helps.

Thank you.

 

[Horton]

But she will be “placed” as a second wife to another man, correct? So a woman who is not married to a man who meets the criteria for exaltation will not have eternal marriage to the man she married on earth, correct?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Loaded questions aside, we use the Bible as a whole. Spiritual phenomena should be tested against Christian doctrine. “Jesus is Lord” is a Christian doctrine that is learned by reason and accepted by reason and faith.

Since Mormonism falls under “false prophets” and fails the test against numerous Christian doctrines, we can safely say, claims by Mormons of being guided by the Holy Ghost fail to pass the test.

1 John 4
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God,

3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.

4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

5 They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.

6 We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.

 

[Horton]

CourtingTex
16h

She can on her own, in the case of her husband who is not a member of the church and has no interest in becoming one, so if she lives properly otherwise, exaltation can occur.

gazelam
12h

1 Peter 3:7 (KJV) Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Per this passage, Eternal Life is only given to husbands and wives together. I hope this helps…

It appears these are two opposing answers and neither really answer my question. For instance, I am an unmarried woman in middle age. According to LDS teaching I would not be able to reach the highest level of LDS afterlife without being attached to a man not of my choosing is repugnant. I believe I am serving God in the place he has called me to be, and that does not include marriage at this time. As I am always open to the calling of God and strive to do His will I can not rule out marriage in the future nor can I rely on it either.

Can you see how this teaching alone can be a real negative selling point for the LDS?

 

[adamhovey1988]

Well, likewise I’m a single man, and at this moment in time, I do not want to be married, I am not financially ready for it. So, does this mean according to Mormon Doctrine since I don’t want to be married at this moment in time that I cannot receive exaltation if I died in a car wreck or something? Quite honestly, how many single Mormons are there? I mean I’m 29, and I’ve noticed that some Mormons tend to get married pretty young.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Horton:

Sincere question. Why are women unable to receive exultation on their own?

1 Peter 3:7 (KJV) Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Per this passage, Eternal Life is only given to husbands and wives together. I hope this helps…

That isn’t what that verse says, as at all. You’ve overlaid your own beliefs onto the text. It says married couples are heirs together, which belongs to the graces of marriage. St. Paul also taught that the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse…so there we have two descriptions related to the married faithful.

It doesn’t say ONLY married couples are heirs to eternal life. There are multiple verses in the NT that teach ALL of the Christian faithful are heirs to eternal life.