Let's talk about Mormonism

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Catholic-Mormon said:
Have you looked at what happens when people have children without trying to control for men and women? There is almost a perfect balance. And now that there are ways to do either or. Once again no need for poligamy. Take men out for the preisthood you need as many women to do the same. In light of this no problem. When were nuns instituted? Teach me more.
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We don’t need to do the same because not all Catholics marry. There are many single men and women, who serve God, devoted in a single life.

Religious orders came about very early in church history. The first were what we call desert monks (and nuns). During the early Christian persecutions (first 300 years of Christianity), just being a Christian meant sacrifice. Sometimes, a great sacrifice of one’s life.

After Christianity was legalized by the Roman emperor Constantine, life became less of a hardship for Christians. They could live normal, everyday lives, without a constant fear of dying. There were individuals, who felt that total sacrifice was required for their faith and so they went out to the deserts, and lived solitary, single lives, in service to God. Prayer, fasting and almsgiving were their lives, in total.

Over time, individuals who lived the life of a monk (or nun) formed communities, comprised of people who were sacrificing and serving God in the same way. Leading up to, and during the middle ages, high profile and infamous people (to us now) formed religious orders, which have rules (laws of the community), and a formal means to entering the communities. Each community has its own history and we could spend hours going over each one, but that is the high level history of them all.

So when you hear/see Benedictine, Franciscan, Dominican…these religious orders are named after the men who formed them. As an examaple, St. Francis had a friend, and counterpart if you will, named St. Claire. Both were single and served God as single people in fasting, prayer and almsgiving. St. Francis established the Franciscan order. St. Claire worked with him for establishing and administrating monasteries for nuns. All are “Franciscans”. Over time, many monasteries were established, each with their own history, and names. I don’t know of any source that names them all! Most Catholics, if we see a monastery we look up its history and that ties it into one of the major religious orders.

All that being said, we can all live as monks in the world.

 
Thank you I am beginning to see the Catholic perspective more clearly thank you I am beginning to see the error of trying to tell people what they are or are not supposed to do. And allowing God to direct them and not judge them. God can provide for us without any assistance. That is extremely uplifting.
 
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I have another question did the Jesus part of God keep his body. I know he was Resurrected but does he still maintain a physical presence in some way?
 
You have to also know my perspective to get me where I need to go. Mine is not where you claim all Mormons are.
 
We are individuals in a community. Catholicism isn’t really an individualist thing. We are called to communion, most notable the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the center, source and summit of our faith. Our communion with each other, through Christ, is central.

It is good for us to teach our faith to others. It increases our knowledge and understanding and grows our faith. So thanks for asking questions! We grow in faith together.

You got me thinking on St. Francis, and you may already be familiar with one of his most famous prayers, that was made into a hymn. “All Creatures of Our God and King”. Though, when Mormons use the hymn they leave off the last verse, because Mormons don’t worship the Holy Trinity!

 
Catholic-Mormon said:
I have another question did the Jesus part of God keep his body. I know he was Resurrected but does he still maintain a physical presence in some way?
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Yes, Jesus has a physical body that has been glorified. His body is the same as ours, but different. Our resurrected bodies will also be the same, but different.
 
So is all kinds of communion good with God as long as it is not sex and that we can only have with one person?
 
Am I allowed to have any kind of intimate relationship with a man who is not my husband putting sexs aside?
 
Catholic-Mormon said:
Am I allowed to have any kind of intimate relationship with a man who is not my husband putting sexs aside?
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You’ll see the term if you read enough Catholic stuff, including on this forum, “living as brother and sister”. These are close relationships between a man and a woman, where they live as sibling would live, and may have the close relationship that one might have with siblings. Loving, caring, but no sexual intimacy.
 
I should be clear, that these are husband and wife who are now living as brother and sister. Cohabitation, between men and women, who are not married, is not looked upon favorably.
 
Catholic-Mormon said:
Am I allowed to have any kind of intimate relationship with a man who is not my husband putting sexs aside?
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…and if you’re still thinking on polygamy with this question. 🙂 Look at this way. If a convert to Catholicism was in a polygamous relationship, they would need to end sexual intimacy with all but one wife. They would still have an obligation to provide materially for their previous wives and all children.
 
So I and my husband can open our home to a whole bunch of men and women and we can support and love them and all of that we just can’t have sex with them.

Is it possible that this is what God wanted Mormon priesthood leaders to do with their widows unmarried women and children and then evil got into their hearts. Just as we saw priests doing with people in the Catholic Church. There was some hideing of sins there done by the church. Now there is a difference in that mormon leaders took it one step farther and peach and taught that they were doing God’s will which is a huge sin because not only did they commit adultury they also used Gods name in vain. Oh wait priests also used their position to molest people. That sounds similar.
 
So did catholic priests not molest children? And you are right it is provocative if you all keep telling me I have to look at all the sins of my church and condemn them and apologize for them should it not be the same as me a catholic or wanting to be one? Or are there different rules once I become catholic? I am looking to you all to know how to best be a catholic. Please continue to teach me. Because of that is what being catholic is I am really good at identifying sin and I am really good at apologies.
 
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Catholic-Mormon said:
So I and my husband can open our home to a whole bunch of men and women and we can support and love them and all of that we just can’t have sex with them.

Is it possible that this is what God wanted Mormon priesthood leaders to do with their widows unmarried women and children and then evil got into their hearts. Just as we saw priests doing with people in the Catholic Church. There was some hideing of sins there done by the church. Now there is a difference in that mormon leaders took it one step farther and peach and taught that they were doing God’s will which is a huge sin because not only did they commit adultury they also used Gods name in vain. Oh wait priests also used their position to molest people. That sounds similar.
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That is how Joseph Smith started out. He and Emma were really, very generous with boarding people who needed a place to stay. But, Joseph Smith had a confirmed affair with one of their boarders, Fanny Alger, and then a pattern can be seen after that where he proposes marriage to his boarders. This includes many young single women and a few married women. He then extended his “invitations” to marriage to women who never lived with them. Promising high eternal rewards for some and threatening others with a loss of eternal reward if they did not agree to his proposals.

Absolutely, the sexual predatory behavior is the same used by those who prey on children and adolescents today, including criminal priests.

I think you expressed the difference. Joseph Smith taught his sins were to be practiced by others as a doctrine, divinely commanded by God. The Mormon Church still teaches this, to this day.

No Catholic Pope or Bishop has ever taught that sexual predators are divinely inspired and that we should all follow their examples. Complicit behavior is looked at by us as abhorrent. We don’t support these people and certainly don’t view it as an example to follow. We are counseled to put measures in place to protect children, and to find a way to forgive.

Mormons who view Joseph Smith’s behavior as abhorrent are counseled to seek an understanding as to why God wanted Joseph Smith to practice polygamy.
 
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You are correct Catholics priests never taught it publicly Mormon “prophets” also didn’t teach it publicly for a long time until they got to Utah and felt they were safe from public ridicule. But if you look at some of those molested by Catholic priests the priest used his position as a man of god to take advantage of them. How ever they did this they convinced whom ever that it was god’s will.
 
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RebeccaJ said:
That is how Joseph Smith started out. He and Emma were really, very generous with boarding people who needed a place to stay
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You admit that it started out as generousity and went vary badly and Joseph used it sinfully.
 
Catholic-Mormon said:
You are correct Catholics priests never taught it public ally. Mormon “prophets” also didn’t teach it publicly for a long time until they got to Utah and felt they were safe from public ridicule. But if you look at some of those molested by Catholic priests the priest used his position as a man of god to take advantage of them. How ever they did this they convinced whom ever that it was god’s will.
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That is what sexual predators do, they use a position of trust. They didn’t teach their warped crap publically because they knew they were lying and if they did, every Catholic in their parish would have them in jail.

Mormons are primed to receive “new revelation”. Sometimes I think Joseph Smith experimented with how far people would follow him. At his death, and the Mormon succession crisis, we can see there were large groups of Mormons who did not believe polygamy was divinely inspired. Before his death we can see that it was tearing the Mormon church apart.

Catholics don’t accept new, innovative, revelations. Sure there may be individuals who are amiable to that kind of thing, but as a larger body of faithful, we’d send the likes of Joseph Smith out the door.
 
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