Let's talk Church History

[Righteousone]

Do you have a point in this thread besides trying to make Protestants look bad?

I don’t think all Catholics know their church history, aside from the fact that “the Catholic Church has continued unbroken since the beginning of Christianity”. I don’t think church history has much to do with whether a person is truly following God or not. And I think a person truly trying to follow God can be found in every single Christian denomination.

Oh it absolutely has everything to do with Christ’s church. How will you learn anything if not researching it? You can think of all the excuses as to why no one answers my question. I do not make Protestants look bad, they very well do that on their own.

 

[dparker]

SyCarl took the time to post a thoughtful response and all you did was shoot back an argument without addressing his points. That is not debate or dialogue. From what I’ve seen in this thread and your “sinner’s prayer” thread, you are not here to dialogue and debate. You treat this forum as a play ground where kids simply yell taunts back and forth. Many of us won’t go there.

You are a devout Catholic who is very proud of your choice. We get that. Good for you and may God bless you. I am a very open-minded Protestant that is here to learn and listen. You and your approach make that difficult. Don’t be surprised if we choose not to engage you.

 

[Volodymyr]

St. Peter the Apostle was bishop of Antioch. St. Mark Evangelist was bishop of Aleksandria, Egipt. Current patriarchs of these cities are Christian Orthodox bishops succeeding them even to this day. Church of Rome is much younger church than churches of Thessaloniki, Korinf, etc… Churches in these places are still Christian even today and Orthodox as below St. Demetrios Church in Thessaloniki:

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Holy Orthodox Church is Apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ. Roman Church has left Orthodoxy for various reasons but Greek churches are oldest and founded by Apostle St. Paul, Syrian, Palestinian founded by St. Peter and St. James. All are Orthodox.

 

[Righteousone]

St. Peter the Apostle was bishop of Antioch. St. Mark Evangelist was bishop of Aleksandria, Egipt. Current patriarchs of these cities are Christian Orthodox bishops succeeding them even to this day. Church of Rome is much younger church than churches of Thessaloniki, Korinf, etc… Churches in these places are still Christian even today and Orthodox as below St. Demetrios Church in Thessaloniki:

http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Thessalonica_Church_of_St_Demetrios2_tb_n011301.jpg

Holy Orthodox Church is Apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ. Roman Church has left Orthodoxy for various reasons but Greek churches are oldest and founded by Apostle St. Paul, Syrian, Palestinian founded by St. Peter and St. James. All are Orthodox.

Greek Orthodox broke off from Catholicism in the year 1059 from unity with the pope.

 

[HannahLisa]

Greek Orthodox broke off from Catholicism in the year 1059 from unity with the pope.

The Orthodox broke off from Catholicism in 1054, though apparently that had more to do with some popes/patriarchs disagreeing with and excommunicating each other than anything. Because of this, I think the Orthodox could argue that the Catholics broke off from them, as there was pretty much only one church prior to this schism.

 

[Volodymyr]

Greek Orthodox broke off from Catholicism in the year 1059 .

That is your belief, dear friend. When two ships sail from each other such movement apart is described from the point of view of the ship on which one sails. So as a Catolic you think Orthodox “pulled away”, From Orthodoxy, I believe opposite.

But you only wanted to know history of other Churches - my Church was founded by Holy Apostles, Evangelists and would be more recognizable to them that Roman Church would be to St. Peter.

Also Great Schism usually dates from excommunication of Mikhail Kerularios, Archbishop of Konstantinople in 1054, not 1059 by envoys of dead pope.

 

[Mirdath]

Well, it looks like NO NON-CATHOLIC can recall his/her history. What does this tell you? I’ll wait a little longer…:coffeeread: Boy, all this coffee is going to keep me up tonight…

It’s been less than half a day since the thread started, and the Buddhists don’t look to be out yet (that being a few centuries older than Catholicism); I imagine Valke2 and KarenNC have better things to do with their time than give you a proper drubbing (or another, in Karen’s case), being members of religions two or three times as old as yours; and I do not know of any Hindu or Zoroastrian regulars.

I have, however, presented you with a likely image of the first skeptic.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Greek Orthodox broke off from Catholicism in the year 1059 from unity with the pope.

No. It’s 1054 AD… generally speaking. However, it took much later than that… since the execommunication was void because the Pope at the time died when the execommunication was issued…

 

[johnnydigit]

i was told by some Mormons that they can be traced back to not Jesus, but Elijah! or was it Isaiah?
not sure how that fits in with the secret north Americans and golden plates. they did however explain that the true Church died with the Apostles and there has been a long period of nothing - of course until Joseph Smith came along…

ya so i didn’t even bother after that… i honestly wanted to hear the rest of their side of the story…

=============

schism - however you look at the Catholic or Orthodox split, what’s important to other Christians should be that they both have the Sacraments - most importantly, the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. protestants simply don’t have this and it is a terrible shame.

=============

as for the topic, i think protestants would simply say that it doesn’t matter how old or original the Church is, because it has corrupted over time. it’s “apostasized”. it’s all about having Jesus in your heart as your personal Lord and Savior!

 

[Mannyfit75]

St. Peter the Apostle was bishop of Antioch. St. Mark Evangelist was bishop of Aleksandria, Egipt. Current patriarchs of these cities are Christian Orthodox bishops succeeding them even to this day. Church of Rome is much younger church than churches of Thessaloniki, Korinf, etc… Churches in these places are still Christian even today and Orthodox as below St. Demetrios Church in Thessaloniki:

http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Thessalonica_Church_of_St_Demetrios2_tb_n011301.jpg

Holy Orthodox Church is Apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ. Roman Church has left Orthodoxy for various reasons but Greek churches are oldest and founded by Apostle St. Paul, Syrian, Palestinian founded by St. Peter and St. James. All are Orthodox.

I beg to differ, my Orthodox friend. In the beginning of Christianity, Jesus founded** One Church**. It have four marks:

1. One
2. Holy.
3. Catholic.
4. Apostolic.

Jesus build his Church upon **Peter the first Pope **in Matthew 16:18. In Matthew 18:18, Jesus gave the same authority to the rest of the 11 Apostles. But you should take note, that Jesus only give the keys of the kingdom to Peter, not the other Apostles.

Yes, the Roman Church was founded later. It was founded by Paul and Peter. The problem with your conclusion, is that because it is Roman Catholic Church, it isn’t the original Church.

The Church my friend is Catholic Church. Roman Catholic Church is just the Latin Rite, or Roman Rite. If you want to describe the Church of Christ, it is the Catholic Church. To make the statement Roman Catholic Church, is to neglect the Eastern Catholic, who aren’t Roman. There are also Eastern Rite Catholic Church who claim who never break with Rome. They were always in communion with the Pope.

The original Christian Church is the Church with the bishops in full communion with the Pope.

 

[johnnydigit]

But you only wanted to know history of other Churches - my Church was founded by Holy Apostles, Evangelists and would be more recognizable to them that Roman Church would be to St. Peter.

There are also Eastern Rite Catholic Church who claim who never break with Rome. They were always in communion with the Pope.

+1. afaik the eastern Catholics can be just as “old school” and “recognizable” as Orthodox. anywho, we have much more in common as the two “lungs” of the Church, rather than protestants who just seem to be way, way off in left field as far as authenticity… orbit even… galaxy?

 

[p2bearcmom]

hmm…once again…just lurking…

I read somewhere that all 11 apostles considered Peter
to be the “first among firsts”…Yes, he was given the “keys” to the kingdom of heaven…which biblically speaking WAS and IS
very important…Peter’s name is also mentioned WAAAYYY more
times than all the other apostles…

anywho…I’m not very knowledgeable but that’s just my nickle’s worth.

 

[Elric]

Jesus would NEVER start “different” churches. He would never start 30,000 denominations with contradictory beliefs. There is only ONE church…One Catholic, Holy and Apostolic. the Catholic church.

Mate, I think that it might be time for you to remove the log from your own eye.

I really dont think that there is a need for you to do this pointless strutting and proclaiming “my church is better than yours”, it doesnt solve anything.

 

[Righteousone]

Mate, I think that it might be time for you to remove the log from your own eye.

I really dont think that there is a need for you to do this pointless strutting and proclaiming “my church is better than yours”, it doesnt solve anything.

Buddy, I am not saying my church is better than yours, I am saying my church IS the one true church of Jesus Christ. Your profile says your religion is “your own”. That’s the problem, people think they can just “pick and choose” what they want to do. Don’t happen like that.

 

[Chancellare]

There is one Church, the Christian Church. It started as one and was referred to as Catholic. Error entered the Church and disagreements arose.

Hold it there.
Please be specific.
What was the error?
What was the truth that this “error” is against?
Who determined the error and who determined the truth that was subjected to this “error”?

 

[Elric]

Buddy, I am not saying my church is better than yours, I am saying my church IS the one true church of Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read the posts that you have made. Its pretty much a gloat fest for you.

Your profile says your religion is “your own”. That’s the problem, people think they can just “pick and choose” what they want to do. Don’t happen like that.

Yes that is what my profile says. But as you dont know what that entails, you shouldnt be making generalisations like that.

 

[Righteousone]

Perhaps you should go back and re-read the posts that you have made. Its pretty much a gloat fest for you.

Yes that is what my profile says. But as you dont know what that entails, you shouldnt be making generalisations like that.

Only seems like a gloat fest to you b/c you don’t quite get it.

 

[SyCarl]

Hold it there.
Please be specific.
What was the error?
What was the truth that this “error” is against?
Who determined the error and who determined the truth that was subjected to this “error”?

In a brief summary I could not go into all details. We can see error entering the Church even before the Apostles died. Many of the epsitles in the Bible were to correct these errors. Nothing would indicate that such errors ended with the passing of the Apostles. To my mind one major error was not totally of the Church’s doing. This was when Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire. Previously people joined because of their faith and accepted the risk of persecution. This changed to a situation where people had to be Christian because the state so. Christianity is not a religion that someone can be forced to accept but that is what happened.

At this point also positions in the Church began to have political power as authorities in the state religion. This only grew as the Empire crumbled and the Church found itself filling the vacuum in political power. A number of the early disputes in the early Church were the results of personal dislikes and power plays. It could be most useful to accuse one’s oppenent of heterodox views. An example of this was the conflict between Nestorius and Cyril of Alexandria. This resulted in a split in the Church as Cyril won and the result was the Assyrian Church of the East. Talks between this Church and the Vatican now are showing that the cause of the split was blown out of proportion, partly because of the conflict bewteen the two men.

 

[b_justb]

Do you think that maybe it was the wrong execution of the right idea? (The poliical part not the Nestorian part)

In a brief summary I could not go into all details. We can see error entering the Church even before the Apostles died. Many of the epsitles in the Bible were to correct these errors. Nothing would indicate that such errors ended with the passing of the Apostles. To my mind one major error was not totally of the Church’s doing. This was when Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire. Previously people joined because of their faith and accepted the risk of persecution. This changed to a situation where people had to be Christian because the state so. Christianity is not a religion that someone can be forced to accept but that is what happened.

At this point also positions in the Church began to have political power as authorities in the state religion. This only grew as the Empire crumbled and the Church found itself filling the vacuum in political power. A number of the early disputes in the early Church were the results of personal dislikes and power plays. It could be most useful to accuse one’s oppenent of heterodox views. An example of this was the conflict between Nestorius and Cyril of Alexandria. This resulted in a split in the Church as Cyril won and the result was the Assyrian Church of the East. Talks between this Church and the Vatican now are showing that the cause of the split was blown out of proportion, partly because of the conflict bewteen the two men.

 

[wmscott]

There is one Church, the Christian Church. It started as one and was referred to as Catholic. Error entered the Church and disagreements arose. Unity was soon lost as groups left or were ejected from the original Church. The Christian Church was no longer found in one organization. The largest part of the Church retained the name Catholic. But the fragments were also part of the actual universal Church. These fragments have continued until today in such forms as the Assyrian Church of the East, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Coptic Church and various other groups that were thought to be monophysite. As such the claim of unity until the Great Schism is not accurate.

In 1054, the Great Schism resulted in the Catholic Church splitting again. One portion retained the name Catholic Church for itself while the other became the Orthodox. Both of these and the earlier fragments then made up the Christian Church.

Error continued to occur and opposition arose to it through such groups as the Waldenes, the Lollards and the Hussites. Eventually during the Reformation dissent erupted into further fractures in the Church as groups left or were expelled as a result of trying to correct the errors they perceived. As such there were many groups forming the Christian Church. The largest of these groups continued to claim the name Catholic.

All the groups contain parts of the true universal Christian Church. Splits do not deprive the parts of the heritage and history that they shared until the split.

Today we see the Christian Church fragmented into many parts, each of which is part of the Church started by Jesus in the beginning.

Various parts of the Church feel that they are incapable of error and that they are the only “true” church. The claim of infallibility is perhaps the greatest error in the Church and prevents the reunification of the one Christian Church into one organization.

When you say “Error entered the Church and disagreements arose” is an incorrect statement. The faith, dogma, Sacred Traditions, Sacred Scripture, decrees and any other official teachings of the Catholic Faith was never in error and never will be. The Catholic Faith never need to be reformed, however there may have been “human” individuals who did need to be reformed. The point is the Church did not.