Let's talk Church History

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Mannyfit75 said:
I

Yes, the Roman Church was founded later. It was founded by Paul and Peter. The problem with your conclusion, is that because it is Roman Catholic Church, it isn’t the original Church.

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How could the Roman church be founded by Paul…if he is writing to Christians already in Rome and he admits he has not been there?? That makes no sense.
 
Rightlydivide said:
How could the Roman church be founded by Paul…if he is writing to Christians already in Rome and he admits he has not been there?? That makes no sense.
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Well, would co-founded be a better word? He certainly spent a lot of time at the end of his life there teaching while awaiting execution.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
Well, would co-founded be a better word? He certainly spent a lot of time at the end of his life there teaching while awaiting execution.
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Not co-founded … it was already “founded” Paul, was imprisoned in Rome and while there he did teach.

Also, Paul was martyred in Rome …

but founder - co-founder - NO … A pillar of the Church - YES …👍
 
Rightlydivide said:
How could the Roman church be founded by Paul…if he is writing to Christians already in Rome and he admits he has not been there?? That makes no sense.
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Read the ECF writings especially Esebius. I think that’s how he how you spell it.
 
Today there are more than twenty Eastern Catholic churches in union with the Pope; they include the Ukrainian, Maronite, Romanian, Melkite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Coptic, Armenian, and others. Each has its own bishops and each is considered a “particular church,” but their parishes are just as Catholic as the local St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Ignatius of Loyola parish.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains that there is one universal Church, the “unique Catholic Church,” and many particular churches, each a community of Catholics who are joined by faith and the sacraments and their bishop (CCC 833). The Second Vatican Council teaches that from these individual churches comes the fullness of the one and only Catholic Church (Lumen Gentium 23).

The term “Roman Catholic Church” can be misleading (it was originally created by Anglicans, not Catholics) because in English-speaking countries it is commonly used to denote the entire Catholic Church—which ignores all the other particular churches that have their own rites and traditions.

Ultimately, true Catholicism is not found in uniform worship or liturgy—the Catholic Church has not, since its earliest days in Jerusalem, been uniform in those areas. Rather, it has been united in its common faith, doctrine, and sacraments, concretely demonstrated by communion with the pope, the bishop of Rome. While there is a proper diversity in the realm of liturgical practice, devotions, and even disciplines, there is an essential unity in doctrine and dogma.
Catholic Answers

I forgot who made the post about the Coptic and other churches s plitting off from the Catholic Church but as you can see from the statements above they are very much part of the Catholic Church.
 
SyCarl said:
The claim of infallibility is perhaps the greatest error in the Church and prevents the reunification of the one Christian Church into one organization.
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I don’t understand this. It seems to me that understanding that the HS, the Soul of Christ’s Church, is indeed God and cannot err , would give everyone a confidence about the Truth. How does saying the HS can make mistakes create unity? 🤷
 
SyCarl said:
I did not claim that Jesus started more than one Church and that one Church still exists today. However it is split over a number of churches that make up the true invisible body of Christ. I know Catholics do not believe that concept but that is not something I can correct.
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Actually, this is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches.

True believers are all Catholic, but are improperly united to the visible Body by various rejections of the doctrines handed down to us by the Apostles.
 
Volodymyr said:
St. Peter the Apostle was bishop of Antioch. St. Mark Evangelist was bishop of Aleksandria, Egipt. Current patriarchs of these cities are Christian Orthodox bishops succeeding them even to this day. Church of Rome is much younger church than churches of Thessaloniki, Korinf, etc… Churches in these places are still Christian even today and Orthodox as below St. Demetrios Church in Thessaloniki:

http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Thessalonica_Church_of_St_Demetrios2_tb_n011301.jpg

Holy Orthodox Church is Apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ. Roman Church has left Orthodoxy for various reasons but Greek churches are oldest and founded by Apostle St. Paul, Syrian, Palestinian founded by St. Peter and St. James. All are Orthodox.
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Amen! 👍
 
p2bearcmom said:
hmm…once again…just lurking…😉

I read somewhere that all 11 apostles considered Peter
to be the “first among firsts”…Yes, he was given the “keys” to the kingdom of heaven…which biblically speaking WAS and IS
very important…Peter’s name is also mentioned WAAAYYY more
times than all the other apostles…

anywho…I’m not very knowledgeable but that’s just my nickle’s worth. 🤓
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The Orthodox have never denied the Primacy of Peter, or the Roman See. However, Primacy does not equate to Imperial Power. Jesus demonstrated servant leadership, and Peter served his brethren in humility. The Primacy of Rome is based in the doctrine, not in the secular lordship of the pontiffs.
 
wmscott said:
When you say “Error entered the Church and disagreements arose” is an incorrect statement. The faith, dogma, Sacred Traditions, Sacred Scripture, decrees and any other official teachings of the Catholic Faith was never in error and never will be. The Catholic Faith never need to be reformed, however there may have been “human” individuals who did need to be reformed. The point is the Church did not.
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Pride, Arrogance, and Intolerance are definitely errors. The Church did not split over doctrine as much as these personal sins of people.
 
Rightlydivide said:
How could the Roman church be founded by Paul…if he is writing to Christians already in Rome and he admits he has not been there?? That makes no sense.
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Christains that were evangelized by Paul went to Rome. Later, Paul came there himself, and taught for many years before he was martyrd, as did Peter. The indoctrination of the Church through the teaching of Peter and Paul made Rome a very strong bastion against error. Many of the early communites appealed to Rome to settle disputes of doctrine and practice for this reason. This in now way diminishes the other Apostolic Sees.
 
guanophore said:
I don’t understand this. It seems to me that understanding that the HS, the Soul of Christ’s Church, is indeed God and cannot err , would give everyone a confidence about the Truth. How does saying the HS can make mistakes create unity? 🤷
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The Holy Spirit cannot err but we can err in understanding what the Holy Spirit tells us. The true Church is the body of all believers. It does not correspond to one particular organization. The invisible body cannot fail. However the visible body can err. The Catholic Church does not accept this and declares that it is infallible in matters of faith and morals. This is where I see the error. As with Israel where the believing remnant was not necessarily identical to the instituional hierarchy, the same is true today with respect to institutions, including the Catholic Church.
 
YADA said:
Not co-founded … it was already “founded” Paul, was imprisoned in Rome and while there he did teach.

Also, Paul was martyred in Rome …

but founder - co-founder - NO … A pillar of the Church - YES …👍
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I was their recently in Rome. I stood in the cell of Peter and Paul. Very emotional for me.
 
SyCarl said:
The Holy Spirit cannot err but we can err in understanding what the Holy Spirit tells us. The true Church is the body of all believers. It does not correspond to one particular organization.
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did Jesus not come to restore the Davidic kingdom? in a kingdom, there is organization and a hierarchy. when the king was gone, he left others in charge and gave the keys to the kingdom to the prime minister. Isaiah gave the Keys of David’s Kingdom to Eliakim (Isaiah 22:20-22). Jesus gave Peter the keys (Matthew 16:18-19).
SyCarl said:
The invisible body cannot fail. However the visible body can err. The Catholic Church does not accept this and declares that it is infallible in matters of faith and morals. This is where I see the error.
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it cannot fail, Jesus promised it. this is why the Catholic Church has stood for 2000 years and will stand forever. yes, it is infallible in matters of faith and morals. in other human failings, it also can fail. where is the error?
SyCarl said:
As with Israel where the believing remnant was not necessarily identical to the instituional hierarchy, the same is true today with respect to institutions, including the Catholic Church.
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the “believing remnant”? can you please explain what you mean by this? perhaps in light of the Davidic Kingdom, King Solomon, Peter, and the keys, etc.

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i agree that we are all the body of Christ, and that the body of Christ is the Church, but when speaking specifically about Matthew 16, the Kingdom, Keys, and the establishment of Christ’s Church on earth, you simply cannot deny the evidence.

please look at this link for more details and specific scripture passages. marnica.com/lessons/special_topics/KeysOfTheKingdom.pdf
 
wow… after reading all these threads about
who’s church is the right church yadda yadda…

no wonder martin luther left. can you blame him?

everybody wants a monopoly on god.
everybody wants to confine god to one thing or another.

i didn’t know human beings were that powerful.
maybe they are.
 
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