Let's Talk Judaism!

[ryanoneil]

I’m not aware of any means of proving this, other than if a person fullfills all the other conditions associated with the Messiah, we (Jews) would assume the lineage.

I don’t know if there would be any real implications associated with someone who could prove they were a descendant. It doesn’t by itself grant them Messiah status.

Thanks.

 

[KLIBERA]

Judaism Is More Open To The Concept Of After-life For Any Religion For Those Who Practice The Faith As Say Jesus Did. They Have Tolerance For It Whereas Some Christian Faiths Have Chosen To Play Judge. Note That John Paul Wrote Extensively On This Issue As It Pertains To Faiths Outside The Catholic Church. It Is True That Jews Concentrate More On Your Life On Earth Role. The Catholic Church Focuses More On Eternal Life; This Is Assuming That Eternal Life Is What It Is & Is As Rosy As They Say. In Many Respects The Catholic Church Frightens Too Many People. None Of Us Are Perfect. I Have Done Some Heavy Reading On Jewish Virtues & Behavior & I Think For The Most Part The Wisdom Behind Their Philosophy Is Correct & This Is Largely What Is Missing In The World Today. I Was Fascinated On Their Concepts Of Social Justice, Charity, Foregiveness, Etc. It Seems They Allowed More Grace In The Face Of Human Flaws. Note Also That The Jewish Faith Has Always Followed In The Footsteps Of Charity & Social Justice. I Think Their Concept Of Salvation Is Summed In 3 Words: Faith & Works (done For The Sake Of Doing Good, Not Done For The Sake Of Being Seen). Most Jews Today Are In Essence Following The Recommendations Of Christ. They Are Following The Beatitudes As Preached By Christ Without Really Knowing It. God Has A Specific Role For The Jewish People–this May Not Be Obvious To Catholics, Protestants, But It Is Plainly Obvious To Me. St. Paul (romans) Got This One Right.

 

[Lapell]

The Jewish Faith Has Always Followed In The Footsteps Of Charity & Social Justice. I Think Their Concept Of Salvation Is Summed In 3 Words: Faith & Works (done For The Sake Of Doing Good, Not Done For The Sake Of Being Seen). Most Jews Today Are In Essence Following The Recommendations Of Christ. They Are Following The Beatitudes As Preached By Christ Without Really Knowing It. God Has A Specific Role For The Jewish People–this May Not Be Obvious To Catholics, Protestants, But It Is Plainly Obvious To Me. St. Paul (romans) Got This One Right.

“Works done for the sake of doing good”… Well put indeed!
As for “faith”… a number of Jews seem to refer to their religion and their relationship with God as not a “faith”, but as “adherance to God”… maybe to dissociate themselves from the Christian religion. These people seem to say they don’t need to believe in God since they know who God is, how He is and it sounds as though they would have only certitudes about God. Or maybe it just is some kind of screen smoke really, whether it’s conscious or unconscious…

 

[mercygate]

“Works done for the sake of doing good”… Well put indeed!
As for “faith”… a number of Jews seem to refer to their religion and their relationship with God as not a “faith”, but as “adherance to God”… maybe to dissociate themselves from the Christian religion. These people seem to say they don’t need to believe in God since they know who God is, how He is and it sounds as though they would have only certitudes about God. Or maybe it just is some kind of screen smoke really, whether it’s conscious or unconscious…

Actually, if you scour the Hebrew Scriptures, you will find that the word “faith” appears something like 300 times but only twice does it refer to the heart-acceptance of the individual human heart. Mostly the word refers to God Himself, and how God keeps faith, keeps His word, His promises.

 

[KLIBERA]

Its Weird I Observe That Most Jewish People Do Things For The Sake Of Goodness, Not For Some Ulterior Motive. Sadly I Find The Behavior Of Many Ordinary Christians Dreadful.

 

[codebilly]

My personal belief is at odds with Catholicsm as I understand it. I don’t believe the Jews were as instrumental in the death of Jesus as many believe. His death took place at a time when thousands of jews had been routinely crucified by the Romans. I find it hard to believe that many jews had the stomach to actively lobby to have one more of their own put to death in that way, let alone to stand around and watch it.

But taking everything in context and assuming the validity of the story…

First, I don’t think Jews would ever use crucifixion as a method of execution. After an execution, in some cases, they might hang a body from a tree or post, but never for a full day/night.

Second, assuming Jesus did everything the Christian Bible says he did and nothing else, I don’t see in there anything that would trigger an execution sentence under Jewish law, except perhaps the use of God’s true name as a blasphemy (which I don’t know if Jesus is said to have done).

He does seem to have violated the Sabbath by gathering food with his disciples (unless they physical well being was in immediate peril).

But I should point out that historically, it was exceedingly rare – and I mean exceedingly rare, for the Jewish court to impose a death penalty on someone, especially for a breach of ritual law (as opposed to punishment for murder, for example). The Talmud teaches that if one person received the death penalty in 7 years, that particular Sanhedrin (Court) was considered exceedingly bloody.

Jesus ended Passover and replaced it with “the New Covenant”, i.e. bread and wine “according to the rite of Melchizadek”.

Do you think the head priest would have had Him executed for that?

He knew Judas would hand him over when He instituted Himself as the Paschal sacrifice. Therefore, He uttered “This is My Body … This is My Blood, of the New Covenant” while offering bread and wine.

He knew, this act would cost Him His life, ie. His Body and Blood, and therefore, this is why the Body and Blood of the sacrament of the Altar, can never be separated from His real Body and real Blood.

 

[codebilly]

Do you think someone (in our day) could prove they are descended from King David?

What would the implications be?

They would have to be descendants of St. Joseph. Read Matt.1

The lineage presented is to establish that St. Joseph, (not Herod) was the rightful heir to the throne of David.

 

[ryanoneil]

They would have to be descendants of St. Joseph. Read Matt.1

I personally believe Christ fits the description and there is no need to look further for David’s heir. But for those who are still looking there could be many branches of David’s family tree to look at. Not just the branch St. Joseph belongs to. That is why I’m wondering if any modern person could prove the correct pedigree.

The lineage presented is to establish that St. Joseph, (not Herod) was the rightful heir to the throne of David.

Agreed! As a matter of faith, I believe this is adequate to fulfill the promise of 2 Samuel 7:12-14.

**“The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. . . . and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ” (Mt 1:1, 16). **

I suppose it would be a matter of faith for someone claiming to be a descendant today as well.

Peace

 

[codebilly]

I personally believe Christ fits the description and there is no need to look further for David’s heir. But for those who are still looking there could be many branches of David’s family tree to look at. Not just the branch St. Joseph belongs to. That is why I’m wondering if any modern person could prove the correct pedigree.

Agreed! As a matter of faith, I believe this is adequate to fulfill the promise of 2 Samuel 7:12-14.

**“The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. . . . and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ” (Mt 1:1, 16). **

I suppose it would be a matter of faith for someone claiming to be a descendant today as well.

Peace

Amen brother. I pointed to blessed St. Joseph, because our tradition teaches that he was most chaste. (no ‘bloodline’ heirs) : )

 

[Lapell]

Jesus ended Passover and replaced it with “the New Covenant”, i.e. bread and wine “according to the rite of Melchizadek”.

Do you think the head priest would have had Him executed for that?

Actually, it’s Jesus claim that he would come on a cloud sitting at the right hand of God His Father that did it? The High Priest and those present there were convinced that Jesus had just uttered a blasphemy by saying so. BTW, we might have thought the same had we been there, you know!

 

[Eucharisted]

How many ages or times dose Judaism believe in?

 

[Valke2]

This Age.
The Messianiac Age
And the World to Come (afterlife).

 

[codebilly]

Actually, it’s Jesus claim that he would come on a cloud sitting at the right hand of God His Father that did it? The High Priest and those present there were convinced that Jesus had just uttered a blasphemy by saying so. BTW, we might have thought the same had we been there, you know!

That comment certainly didn’t help, but because at least one Liturgy in use begins the words of consecration with “…on the night he was betrayed, He took bread …”

It’s pretty clear. Saying He’d come on a cloud would have probably been dismissed as “being crazy”.

… but to end passover and offer Himself instead … to establish a new covenant among Jews … that was definitely the tipping point

 

[ryanoneil]

I’ve been focusing on the fruitless field of politics and would like to get back to a little theology/religon. Any (more) questions, comments, debates regarding Judaism anyone?

Are you familiar ancient sources identifying Melchizedek (Gen 14:18) with the patriarch Shem (Gen 6:10)

My study bible says these rabbinic commentaries support this. (Genesis Rabbah 43, 6; Leviticus Rabbah 25, 6; Numbers Rabbah 4, 8)

Have you read these? Is there a weblink?

 

[mercygate]

May daughter is dating a Jewish guy and sent me a link for “Hug a Jew Day.” Heck. If I did that at work, they would bring me up on harassment charges. I work at Mount Sinai School of Medicine!

 

[Valke2]

Are you familiar ancient sources identifying Melchizedek (Gen 14:18) with the patriarch Shem (Gen 6:10)

My study bible says these rabbinic commentaries support this. (Genesis Rabbah 43, 6; Leviticus Rabbah 25, 6; Numbers Rabbah 4, 8)

Have you read these? Is there a weblink?

Yes. There’s a midrash that says he is actually Shem.
Here is a link I found: crystalinks.com/melchizedek.html

 

[mercygate]

Valke2 –

When and why did synagogues come to be called “temples”?

 

[Valke2]

Valke2 –

When and why did synagogues come to be called “temples”?

Reform Jews tend to call their place of prayer “temple” orthodox and most conservative jews call it a shul or synagouge. We don’t use “temple” because there was only one Temple (at a time ).

 

[Thing]

Valke,
How will you recognize The Messiah?

Will you need to examine his life, and specifically I ask about his birth, does The Messiahs’ birth need to fulfill any specific conditions or circumstances, and what are they?
Thanks

 

[mercygate]

Reform Jews tend to call their place of prayer “temple” orthodox and most conservative jews call it a shul or synagouge. We don’t use “temple” because there was only one Temple (at a time ).

I was pretty sure the term “temple” was a Reform thing. I wonder what prompted them to assume that terminology?

While Judaism during the exile performed the miracle of developing a faith that could sustain the national and religious identity of the people without day-to-day dependence on the physicalTemple, thus setting the stage for a Messiah whose Kingdom and temple are “not of this world,” it seems strange to call a synagogue a temple – even if it is meant to signify the “temple-ness” of every congregation.