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CHRISTINE77
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Thanks - your responses have been enlightening!
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Robster7
Guest
What is kabbalah?
I get the impression it is a grab bag of mysticism, superstition, magic etc. May have some insights, however. What about celebs like madonna following this stuff? Can’t be the best recommendation.
Sounds sort of like Talmud, with good and bad mixed together. I mean, genuine insights, with some odd stuff.
I get the impression it is a grab bag of mysticism, superstition, magic etc. May have some insights, however. What about celebs like madonna following this stuff? Can’t be the best recommendation.
Sounds sort of like Talmud, with good and bad mixed together. I mean, genuine insights, with some odd stuff.
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Ben_Masada
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No, it does not. The Scriptures are very clear about the dead, that once dead, will never return to life. You can check for yourself in Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 88:6; Psalm 146:4; Proverbs 2:19; etc.
Ben:
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Eucharisted
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Dose Judaism have any symbols for the world to come? Like olives or a temple?
Happy Sabbath!
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theistgal
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Hi -
First of all, what a great thread! I’m really enjoying the information.
I’d like to know why, at least in my own admittedly limited experience, it seems way more difficult to convert to Judaism than to any other religion.
Example: Back in the '80’s I became very interested in Judaism, to the point where I wanted to convert. I thought all I’d have to do is go to a synagogue and talk to a Rabbi and get the ball rolling. But first of all, I couldn’t even find anyone at the synagogue to talk to; second, when I did, they said I couldn’t just “convert”, I had to go through all sorts of instruction and it might take several years.
But what really surprised me was that they really didn’t seem to want converts - no interest whatsoever in my questions or desire to convert.
Now on the one hand I think that’s good because it discourages people from just converting on an impulse and regretting it later.
However, it made me wonder, because it seems like with Christianity and other religions, you can basically just announce that you’re a Christian (or a Buddhist) and abra-cadabra, you’re accepted as one. But you can’t just announce “I’m a Jew” and be taken seriously, unless you’ve actually been accepted by the Jewish community.
So how come there’s no interest in making converts? Or did I just misunderstand? Or was it just me?
Am I making any sense?
First of all, what a great thread! I’m really enjoying the information.
I’d like to know why, at least in my own admittedly limited experience, it seems way more difficult to convert to Judaism than to any other religion.
Example: Back in the '80’s I became very interested in Judaism, to the point where I wanted to convert. I thought all I’d have to do is go to a synagogue and talk to a Rabbi and get the ball rolling. But first of all, I couldn’t even find anyone at the synagogue to talk to; second, when I did, they said I couldn’t just “convert”, I had to go through all sorts of instruction and it might take several years.
But what really surprised me was that they really didn’t seem to want converts - no interest whatsoever in my questions or desire to convert.
Now on the one hand I think that’s good because it discourages people from just converting on an impulse and regretting it later.
However, it made me wonder, because it seems like with Christianity and other religions, you can basically just announce that you’re a Christian (or a Buddhist) and abra-cadabra, you’re accepted as one. But you can’t just announce “I’m a Jew” and be taken seriously, unless you’ve actually been accepted by the Jewish community.
So how come there’s no interest in making converts? Or did I just misunderstand? Or was it just me?
Am I making any sense?
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Not really, in Catholicism you need to go through training before you can be confirmed a Catholic. Might not be as hard to convert to as Judaism, but still requires some effort.Hi -
But it made me wonder, because it seems like with Christianity and other religions, you can basically just announce that you’re a Christian (or a Buddhist) and abra-cadabra, you’re accepted as one. But you can’t just announce “I’m a Jew” and be taken seriously, unless you’ve actually been accepted by the Jewish community.
Am I making any sense?
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theistgal
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Yes, but Catholicism has all sorts of apologetics websites and evangelization groups and there’s an emphasis on getting people to convert. There doesn’t seem to be any similar effort or interest on the part of Judaism.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
That’s true. They don’t seem to want to convert people.
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theistgal
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Which is what I’d like to ask the OP - is it that you don’t want to convert people, that you don’t think it’s necessary to convert them, or just that you want it to be a real effort to do so - sort of like a test?
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Yes, you are making a lot of sense. Until about the Second Century the Jews were highly proselytizers, but when Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire as the official religion of the Empire, laws were decreed against proselytizing by Jews. Some persisted and were condemned to death. Since then,Hi -
First of all, what a great thread! I’m really enjoying the information.
I’d like to know why, at least in my own admittedly limited experience, it seems way more difficult to convert to Judaism than to any other religion.
Example: Back in the '80’s I became very interested in Judaism, to the point where I wanted to convert. I thought all I’d have to do is go to a synagogue and talk to a Rabbi and get the ball rolling. But first of all, I couldn’t even find anyone at the synagogue to talk to; second, when I did, they said I couldn’t just “convert”, I had to go through all sorts of instruction and it might take several years.
But what really surprised me was that they really didn’t seem to want converts - no interest whatsoever in my questions or desire to convert.
Now on the one hand I think that’s good because it discourages people from just converting on an impulse and regretting it later.
However, it made me wonder, because it seems like with Christianity and other religions, you can basically just announce that you’re a Christian (or a Buddhist) and abra-cadabra, you’re accepted as one. But you can’t just announce “I’m a Jew” and be taken seriously, unless you’ve actually been accepted by the Jewish community.
So how come there’s no interest in making converts? Or did I just misunderstand? Or was it just me?
Am I making any sense?
the Rabbis abolished the practice.
Today it’s very difficult for someone to convert to Judaism. First of all the prospect must request and insist, and be denied more than
several times, even to the point to be insulted. But when they are
persuaded that there is nothing they can do to make the prospect
change his or her mind, he or she is accepted into a kind of course for 8 months to a year. Afterwards the male must be circumcised. And once one has completed the process, he or she
is a Jew for all effects. As Isaiah says in 56:1-8, with a name better than sons and daughters. A family of five have converted as a result of my work, and I followed the process throughout the time I have spoken of. The two daughtgers of the family have married two wonderful young Israeli Jews and each one has two children each. It means I have contributed with nine souls to Judaism.
Another reason why the Rabbis react so hushly against the idea of conversion is because many want to convert because they think about getting to Heaven after death. That’s a utopia. We Jews don’t believe in the afterlife. Besides, it’s too hard to live as a Jew.
Ben:
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theistgal
Guest
Hmm … I actually kind of like that! You have to work for it - you can’t just wake up one fine morning and say, “Hmm, think I’ll convert to Judaism today!”
Thanks for the insight!
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Valke2
Guest
Kabbalah is mysticisim. It is an alternative way of interperting the scripture – at least that is one of its purposes. There are different books that teach Kabalah, the most central text being the Zohar. Since it is a very different way of viewing the Torah, it makes sense that in order to get the most out of it, one should already have a firm grounding in knowledge of the scriptures. That’s one reason that celebs learning kabbalah is really akin to my buying Trump’s “How to Sell Real Estate” and calling myself a real estate mogul.
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Valke2
Guest
I can’t think of anything off hand. I’ll look into it later and get back to you.
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Valke2
Guest
One reason may be because our religion is very tied up with learning. Our rights of passage are based on learning Torah. A bar mitzvah marks the occassion when a Jew first reads from the Torah in front of the community. So, in short, there’s a lot of information involved.
Second, the last thing rabbis want are people converting and then “reverting.” It would be damaging to the community and most jewish communities have suffered enough damage already, whether from secularism or whatever.
Third, it ain’t easy being jewish, especially if you live outside of Israel and New York. The rabbis recognize this, understand that the convert will likely have a lot of extra strained relations with his or her existing family. We also believe that one does not have to be Jewish to find favor with God or to have a share in the world to come. So if someone is to convert and take on all the additional obligations that go with being jewish, then it actually becomes harder for them to live a righteous life
Yep. But look at it this way. There’s nothing stopping one from studying and taking part in most Jewish rituals as they are in the process of converting.Example: Back in the '80’s I became very interested in Judaism, to the point where I wanted to convert. I thought all I’d have to do is go to a synagogue and talk to a Rabbi and get the ball rolling. But first of all, I couldn’t even find anyone at the synagogue to talk to; second, when I did, they said I couldn’t just “convert”, I had to go through all sorts of instruction and it might take several years.
But what really surprised me was that they really didn’t seem to want converts - no interest whatsoever in my questions or desire to convert.
That will vary from community to community. Some communities view with suspicion those that want to convert. Some are more welcoming.
Once you actually convert, it is forbidden to treat you any differently from any other Jew. It is even bad form to mention that you are a convert. There’s a jewish tradition of denying the prospective convert at least three times to ensure they are serious. Some rabbis take this more seriously than others.So how come there’s no interest in making converts? Or did I just misunderstand? Or was it just me?
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
How about reincarnation? I don’t think Jews believe in the afterlife in heaven, purgatory or hell, but how about reincarnation? Or is this life all there is?
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
What about the Essenes like John the Baptist? He ate locusts and wild honey.Eat insects? Both a general shudder and a kosher shudder!
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mercygate
Guest
Orthodox Jews I have known say that if you’re not a Jew but are faithful to the Noahide law, you’re half way there. They shrug (you know the gesture!) and say "Why would want all this “tsuris! [trouble]?” They figure if you’re not born to it, you have to be mischuga [crazy] to want any part of it.
I know a couple, both goyim, who converted at different times in their lives to serious, observant, Judaism. They found each other, married, have a beautiful family, and are living happily ever after. Their name is actually the surname of one of the great Popes of the Middle Ages.
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Valke2
Guest
Jews believe in an afterlife. There’s not a lot of dogma on the subject so opinions on exactly what it is will differ.
There is some jewish teachings on reincarnation, although I wouldn’t say it was part of normative judaism. The Zohar discusses it. Some sources teach that a soul gets 3 chances in this world.
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Ben_Masada
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Work for it! Put work into this! To convert to Judaism is indeed more difficult than you think. I mean, Othodox Judaism. Conservative Judaism is easier, and Reform Judaism even easier. But Orthodox Judaism which is recognized in Israel, is really an 8-month basic training. The young folks who come to Israel from Conservative or Reform conversions, will never be able to get married, for instance, without going over Orthodox conversion.Hmm … I actually kind of like that! You have to work for it - you can’t just wake up one fine morning and say, “Hmm, think I’ll convert to Judaism today!”
Thanks for the insight!
Ben:
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Kaninchen
Guest
Who? (I know, he’s a character in the ‘New Testament’ but you get the point?)
If one was cast-away on a desert island with the only food source pigs, shellfish or locusts, it’d be alright to eat them.
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