Levi 24:8 and daily mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter anon91549587
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anon91549587

Guest
I have met evangelicals who believe we can only have communion once a week because of lev 24:8 . How do i go about explaining our catholic process of having mass celebrated multiple times everyday? I was about to quote the Divine office and the jewish roots of if but not totally sure if mass and LOTH are related.

“Every sabbath they shall be changed before the Lord , being received of the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant”

Edit : i found one more reference in Acts 20:7 .

“ and on the first day of the week , when we assembled to break bread…”
 
Last edited:
In John 6, Jesus likened the Eucharist to the manna from heaven that the Israelites ate daily while they were in the wilderness.

Acts 2:46 says that early Christians celebrated the breaking of bread (i.e., the Eucharist) together daily.

Some understand Matthew 6:11 as referring to the Eucharist when it says, “Give us this day our daily bread.”
 
Last edited:
Sacrifices in the old Temple were offered daily. Because you cannot possibly offer all the sacrifices that each individual person offered in 1 day. That is a preposterous idea not rooted in history. Remember every person had to provide for sacrifice to GOD for the many events in the life of each one.
They had the sin offering that was given when someone sinned, then purification sacrifices, births, special events etc.
Peace!
 
Hey Jerry ,

So the person would buy the sacrifice and the priest would perform the killing and burning correct?
 
“Give us this day our daily bread.” Actually, it’s “epiousion” bread, which is a pretty freaky word. (Epi- + ousion. Jerome translated it as “supersubstantial,” which is closer.)

But the early early Christians pretty clearly did receive the Eucharist at least once a week if they were eligible, and more if they had more frequent Mass. (On the other hand, if you sinned gravely, you might have to repent and do penitence for many years before you could receive the Eucharist again.)

If you couldn’t receive every day at Mass, there were two different customs. At one point, some Christians (usually the sick) were being sent the Eucharist every day, or the well were being given a chunk of the Eucharist to take home and keep and receive every day. This had some obvious pitfalls, so people were sent home with unconsecrated but holy bread. (There are some vestiges of this in the Eastern rites.)

Different periods of Church history have believed that different frequency of reception was desirable, to avoid receiving while not in a state of grace, or to strengthen one to remain in a state of grace. But in general, priests/bishops were saying Mass daily, when they could, and laypeople who were considered to be in a state to receive frequently did receive frequently.
 
Actually Acts 2:46 is talking about eating regular food not communion when read in context.

In John 6:35 Jesus is identifying Himself as the Bread of Life “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." This passage is only talking about coming to Him and believing. No mention of Eucharist.

Again Matt 6:11 has nothing to do with Eucharist but petitioning our Heavenly Father to supply our daily earthly food and the needs.
 
jericho777 said:
Actually Acts 2:46 is talking about eating regular food not communion when read in context.
Click to expand...
In Acts 2:46, breaking bread is mentioned in the same sentence as attending temple. Since attending temple is a religious activity, not a regular activity, context would seem to favor a similarly religious understanding of breaking bread, i.e., the sort of breaking bread that occurred when the church assembled for the Lord’s Supper (1 Cor 11:17-34) and which St Paul said was a communion with the body of Christ. (1 Cor 10:16)

In its discussion on the sacrament of the Eucharist and the various names by which it is called, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1329, says in part, “The Breaking of Bread, … it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies;[146] …”
Footnote 146: Cf. Acts 2:42, 46; 20:7, 11. (source)

Here are some non-Catholic translations of Acts 2:46 (source):
And day after day they regularly assembled in the temple with united purpose, and in their homes they broke bread [including the Lord’s Supper]. They partook of their food with gladness and simplicity and generous hearts, (Amplified Bible, Classic Edition)

They worshiped together regularly at the Temple each day, met in small groups in homes for Communion, and shared their meals with great joy and thankfulness, (The Living Bible)

They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity— (New Living Translation)
Click to expand...
In John 6:35 Jesus is identifying Himself as the Bread of Life “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." This passage is only talking about coming to Him and believing. No mention of Eucharist.
Click to expand...
Eucharist is mentioned twice in John 6:
Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks [Greek: eucharistesas] , he distributed them to those who were seated… (John 6:11)
However, boats from Tiberias came near the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks [Greek: eucharistesantos]. (John 6:23)
Click to expand...
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 1336 and 1338 (source), in John 6:51-58, 60, 67-68, Jesus was announcing the Eucharist which he would later institute at the Last Supper (Mt 26:17-29; Mk 14:12-25; Lk 22:7-20; 1 Cor 11:23-26) and which Christians would continue to celebrate at their church assemblies.
Again Matt 6:11 has nothing to do with Eucharist but petitioning our Heavenly Father to supply our daily earthly food and the needs.
Click to expand...
Among other complementary interpretations, a eucharistic interpretation of this petition (Mt 6:11; Lk 11:3) is mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 2835 and 3837. (source)
 
Last edited:
Interesting. This is the meaning 2168 euxaristéō (from 2095 /eú , “good” and 5485 /xaris , “grace”) – properly, acknowledging that “God’s grace works well,” i.e. for our eternal gain and His glory; to give thanks – literally, “thankful for God’s good grace .”

You must realize the prayer “Bless the LORD our God King of the universe who brings forth bread from the earth.” Is pronounced over the bread at every meal. It is not the Catholic meaning. Also the Lords supper was not even instituted yet.
 
Sorry to sidetrack . That note on worshipping in the temple. What was the role of the temple after the death of Jesus? Is that the same temple referred to in the book of hebrews before the temple was destroyed in 68Ad?
 
Since you are a member of the Heretical devilish demonic Beelzebub occult national church of heathen Idolaters, why on earth do they even care? I would first riddle them that one.

Seriously, Christ said - no - He commanded that the Apostles “Do this, as often as you do it…”
+
The power of binding and loosing.

There you have it.

But first I would comment to them that it is a very curious question in the first place. Noting here, as an afterthought that we are freed from the Mosaic law.
 
Last edited:
I was trying, poorly, to make a caricature of their views of Catholicism. But still, why do they even care? Do they also pop in at Buddhist temples to see that everything is according to the rules? Nah, just those wacky Catholics.
 
Last edited:
jericho777 said:
Also the Lords supper was not even instituted yet.
Click to expand...
I did not say that Jesus instituted the Eucharist in John 6 but only that Jesus announced it in John 6, i.e., announced it prophetically; Jesus was speaking of the future: “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you” (John 6:27), and “the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6:51) Again, the Eucharist was not actually instituted until the Last Supper.

John’s Christian listeners would have already been familiar with the Eucharist from hearing the Last Supper narratives in the older, synoptic gospels(Mt 26:26-28; Mk 14:22-24; Lk 22:19-20) and from the Eucharistic celebrations in their own church assemblies (1 Cor 10:16-21; 11:18-33). I think John cleverly used convoluted, eucharistic language in John 6:23 (“where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks”) when describing the place rather than a more natural expression, such as, where Jesus “broke the five loaves for the five thousand” (Mark 8:19), to get his Christian readers thinking about the Eucharist as they heard Jesus’ bread of life discourse which immediately followed.

Christians of the second century wrote of the Eucharist as the “flesh” and/or “blood” of Jesus Christ, exactly the same terms (“flesh” and “blood”) used in John 6:51-56:

Maybe a decade after John wrote his gospel, about the year 110, St Ignatius of Antioch wrote against those who “confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” (St Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, chapter 7)

St Justin Martyr, about the year 155, wrote:
And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, This do in remembrance of Me, this is My body; and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, This is My blood; and gave it to them alone. (Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapter 66)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
anon91549587 said:
I have met evangelicals who believe we can only have communion once a week because of lev 24:8 . How do i go about explaining our catholic process of having mass celebrated multiple times everyday? I was about to quote the Divine office and the jewish roots of if but not totally sure if mass and LOTH are related.

“Every sabbath they shall be changed before the Lord , being received of the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant”

Edit : i found one more reference in Acts 20:7 .

“ and on the first day of the week , when we assembled to break bread…”
Click to expand...
This is only setting the BARE MINIMUM required by God.

Honestly, let’s think about argument these evangelicals are making… They are actually accusing Catholics of worshiping God too much!

Let’s let that sink in for a moment. It would almost be akin to someone saying “you pray to much!” or “you read the Bible too much!”

Honestly, how can one worship God too much?
 
jericho777 said:
Again Matt 6:11 has nothing to do with Eucharist but petitioning our Heavenly Father to supply our daily earthly food and the needs.
Click to expand...
FYI, by the mid-200s at the latest, some Christian writers commenting on this petition (Matt 6:11) wrote that it is to be understood both literally and spiritually, including in reference to the Eucharist:

Tertullian (c.155-c.240), On Prayer, chapter 6, probably written before the year 207.

St. Cyprian of Carthage (c.200-c.258), Treatise IV (On the Lord’s Prayer), chapter 18.

There, and this goes to the original question about receiving the Eucharist daily, Cyprian of Carthage said, in part:
And we ask that this bread should be given to us daily, that we who are in Christ, and daily receive the Eucharist for the food of salvation, may not, by the interposition of some heinous sin, by being prevented, as withheld and not communicating, from partaking of the heavenly bread, be separated from Christ’s body, as He Himself predicts, and warns, I am the bread of life which came down from heaven.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
First example is in the last supper narrative in Luke. The second is in Matthew 16 and 18.

Are these folks some of the twice yearly ‘Ritz Crackers and welch’s grape juice’ crowd? At some point, must they not feel rather silly doing that? What part does eating crackers and drinking juice play in their salvation? It is certainly food for their earthly journey, but not for their spiritual pilgrimage to heaven. And they criticize Catholics!
 
It seemed you were inferring this was communion in John 6:11. I was making the point that it had not been instituted yet. If you read the rest of the passage Jesus does the same thing with the fish before distributing it to the people. Which would make it certainly not communion.

Look the word eucharist literally means “God’s grace works well” and is used 38 times in the NT. Not all of those times is it even used in association with the Lords Supper proper. It is a general use word which makes it confusing because Catholics use it exclusively for “communion”. Please do a simple word study so you can better understand its usage.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top