LGBT Day of Silence -April 19th-will your child participate?

[untruestory]

If it’s about bullying then lets talk about bullying and not ignore every group except gays. It is more than implied that there is something wrong and disorderly with disagreeing with a gay lifestyle. So, in effect those of us that don’t support gays are labeled as the problem and bullying gets the back seat or, worse yet, the hate is directed towards us and we get labeled in a negative light.

I’ve been dealing with some of the same and very upsetting topics being discussed at my son’s school and this is one of them. Every few weeks they have a classroom discussion on puberty and sex and they’ve covered things that are contrary to our faith. I found out, not as the result of a permission slip, but as the result of a talk with my kid.

I talked to the teacher who does this and she said they can send him to study hall during this but that could be an issue for a teen. As a solution I asked to be a silent observer when they had these meetings so I could know the content and address disagreeable subjects privately with my son. She said she had to get permission. I just got a message from her saying that my observation would be a violation of student confidentiality.

Today I’m letting myself cool down and I’ll call them tomorrow. My son is new to public schools. He speaks his mind and has shared he doesn’t appreciate the undermining of our beliefs. I’ve been trying to find material that would help him not feel bullied by school authorities and other kids on such issues. I found this link dayofdialogue.com/ but it doesn’t quite cover it.

I’ve been feeling very frustrated with the rigid, close minded, intolerant, discriminating, dogmatic, and judgmental attitude from our secular culture. If anyone else has anything to offer I’m all ears.

 

[hamandcheese]

Your daughter is only three. If you start looking for a suitable parish and school, I think you’ll be able to find one. I also don’t understand what you mean by “I don’t want the faith to become institutionalized for her”. Please explain? What does an “institutionalized faith” look like?

I have never been to Catholic school so I don’t know what goes on there. I don’t mean to offend anybody who has or has children going now. When I say institutionalized faith what I mean is a list of rules and practices with very little feeling, understanding , history or spirituality attached to them. Just every day rules that have to be followed because the teachers say so. Like taking a good song and making a muzak version of it. I have heard people who went to Catholic school say ridiculous things like “when I went to school the nuns said if we ate meat on Friday we would go to hell and now the church says you can so I’m not Catholic anymore because they change the rules.” Or how about “the Church says dogs cant go to heaven so I don’t listen to the Church anymore.“ How many baby boomers who went to Catholic school know that contraception is wrong or vote for politicians who support abortion? Or even go to Church on sunday?

I’m not sure what institutionalized faith actually looks like or if it even exists but if it does these types of things are what the results look like.

Take your family and leave the country. I did.

Where are you going to go? This is everywhere and if its not where you are now it’s coming and then what are you going to do.

 

[Allegra]

I hadn’t heard of it until last year and it was on this forum. The school I work at doesn’t participate, though we do have several anti-bullying preventions, including a yearly bullying awareness assembly. Gay rights are not mentioned at the assembly.

 

[pnewton]

And some still claim there is no gay agenda. What chilled me is the “Report” button at the bottom to reports schools that were resisting this gay push. The day is near where Christians will face real persecution for their moral objections.

 

[Megan7]

Just wondering how many parents on these forums will allow their chillden to particpate? And if so why?

dayofsilence.org/

Wow! Sad

Thanks for the link.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

If it’s about bullying then lets talk about bullying and not ignore every group except gays. It is more than implied that there is something wrong and disorderly with disagreeing with a gay lifestyle. So, in effect those of us that don’t support gays are labeled as the problem and bullying gets the back seat or, worse yet, the hate is directed towards us and we get labeled in a negative light.

I’m with you there.

I think what happens is that you have so many gays and lesbians enduring cruel treatment in school, that when they move to confront this issue, then of course they are going to tackle it from their own perspective. So, it doesn’t surprise me and actually, I have no problem with what they’re doing, I would even participate if I could. But your suggestion about making it more universal does make sense to me.

At the same time, why haven’t we developed a universal program for this already? Wouldn’t God look favorably upon such a program? Yet we sit on our heels.

I’ve been dealing with some of the same and very upsetting topics being discussed at my son’s school and this is one of them. Every few weeks they have a classroom discussion on puberty and sex and they’ve covered things that are contrary to our faith. I found out, not as the result of a permission slip, but as the result of a talk with my kid.

It’s really weird that you would not be asked to sign a permission slip! What type of class is it?

I talked to the teacher who does this and she said they can send him to study hall during this but that could be an issue for a teen. As a solution I asked to be a silent observer when they had these meetings so I could know the content and address disagreeable subjects privately with my son. She said she had to get permission. I just got a message from her saying that my observation would be a violation of student confidentiality.

Yeah, it would also be really weird for teachers to have parents coming in and out of classrooms. A classroom is not a public forum, I understand why you think it is, but it really isn’t. Teachers will be distracted, students will be distracted.

Also, I would say that going to a study hall would be much less of an “issue” for a teen than having one of his/her parents in class. Don’t you think?

How about asking for a copy of the lesson plan? If the teacher has one on paper, I’ll bet you she would be willing to e-mail it to you the day before.

Today I’m letting myself cool down and I’ll call them tomorrow. My son is new to public schools. He speaks his mind and has shared he doesn’t appreciate the undermining of our beliefs. I’ve been trying to find material that would help him not feel bullied by school authorities and other kids on such issues. I found this link dayofdialogue.com/ but it doesn’t quite cover it.

Interesting.

Looks like Focus on the Family is behind that one. I wonder why there aren’t any similar Catholic programs. You would think that bullying and hatred would be at the front of the Catholic mindset.

I’ve been feeling very frustrated with the rigid, close minded, intolerant, discriminating, dogmatic, and judgmental attitude from our secular culture. If anyone else has anything to offer I’m all ears.

When you say “rigid, close minded, intolerant, discriminating, dogmatic, and judgmental attitude,” what do you mean, example-wise?

pnewton:

And some still claim there is no gay agenda

Insofar as their agenda is to stop their own persecution, I have no idea how you can find any fault with that.

EasterJoy:

My kids? I couldn’t get them to do something like this if I put a gun to their heads. They are not sympathetic to liberal nonsense like this.

Your kids are not sympathetic to stopping the bullying and persecution of gays and lesbians? Why not?

 

[pnewton]

Yeah, it would also be really weird for teachers to have parents coming in and out of classrooms. A classroom is not a public forum, I understand why you think it is, but it really isn’t. Teachers will be distracted, students will be distracted.

At first I found my self agreeing with this and then I thought about what was actually said. Confidentiality? That is a ridiculous reason. A school is a public setting. It is paid by the public. It is mandatory, not optional. There should be zero expectation of classroom confidentiality. Rather, if they were truly interested in education and not indoctrination, then absolute transparency should pose no barrier. Eduacation is not group counseling.

I think the poster before should challenge that answer about student confidentiality as a blatant lie.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

At first I found my self agreeing with this and then I thought about what was actually said. Confidentiality? That is a ridiculous reason. A school is a public setting. It is paid by the public. It is mandatory, not optional. There should be zero expectation of classroom confidentiality. Rather, if they were truly interested in education and not indoctrination, then absolute transparency should pose no barrier. Eduacation is not group counseling.

I think the poster before should challenge that answer about student confidentiality as a blatant lie.

I can’t speak precisely to the confidentiality part, since that wasn’t my objection and I really don’t know anything about this class. Best I can figure, you have a situation here where students are allowed to ask questions concerning their bodily development and such, and the presence of another adult might stifle that. Though, one would assume the presence of one’s peers would have much the same effect.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a made-up explanation, and the real objection is similar to my own. When I was a sacristan, we would get couples pushing the line on what music they could have at their wedding ceremony. The line kept getting pushed and pushed until ultimately, we had to lay out a small selection of Church-approved choices and keep it limited to that. Because it kept getting more and more exotic, and when you hear the Star Wars theme as a processional… it’s fun and all, but it’s way over the line for the situation!

Teaching isn’t too much different, in that respect. If you let one student do X, then you have to let others do it as well. If you let one parent do X, then you have to let other parents do it, too. God help you if you end up with even just 3 or 4 parents “observing” on a weekly basis, it would be pandemonium. And of course, other teachers would start to hate you too, as they would be pressured into allowing it as well. “Mr. Smith lets us sit in, why doesn’t Ms. Jones?” Probably end up with a Christian fundamentalist sitting in on biology or animal science classes, monitoring each use of “the e word.” As to my field of history, well, it would probably be just as bad. There’s no way to avoid offending anyone when it comes to history.

 

[on_the_hill]

Huh?

Didn’t even know there was such a thing.

I doubt my kids have any idea.

And knowing them, they can’t stay silent for even two minutes for any reason.

 

[Allegra]

At first I found my self agreeing with this and then I thought about what was actually said. Confidentiality? That is a ridiculous reason. A school is a public setting. It is paid by the public. It is mandatory, not optional. There should be zero expectation of classroom confidentiality. Rather, if they were truly interested in education and not indoctrination, then absolute transparency should pose no barrier. Eduacation is not group counseling.

I think the poster before should challenge that answer about student confidentiality as a blatant lie.

This is the issue as I see it. This activity is either a class or a counseling session. If it is a class, it should be open to the public and there should be no expectation of confidentiality. If it is a counseling session, then they need the parents’ permission. The teacher can’t have the best of both worlds. Legitimate sex ed courses don’t require parental permission because they teach a curriculum of facts. (anatomy, chemistry, disease, biology, etc.) They should not attempt to influence how students feel about these facts or what they believe about the morality of sex. Indoctrination about the morality of homosexual behavior is not science and doesn’t belong in a sex ed class.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

This is the issue as I see it. This activity is either a class or a counseling session. If it is a class, it should be open to the public and there should be no expectation of confidentiality.

Are you kidding me? Since when are classes “open to the public”? It’s not a movie or a play, it’s a class.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Are you kidding me? Since when are classes “open to the public”? It’s not a movie or a play, it’s a class.

They aren’t, nor should they be. Sex ed, drug education, and education about mental illnesses and eating disorders are all taught in a very sensitive manner and in a way that makes students feel comfortable asking and answering questions. Usually the teacher has a rule that if she finds out that one student revealed what another said there are consequences.

It just wouldn’t work to have patents there. Students would not be able to ask questions or share thoughts and experiences freely.

 

[EasterJoy]

Your kids are not sympathetic to stopping the bullying and persecution of gays and lesbians? Why not?

No, my kids do not think that ever hair-brained “protest” that comes down the pike is actually going to accomplish what it says it is going to accomplish, and I have to agree with them.

They know that it is hard to be homosexual, and they know that it is utterly unacceptable to bully anyone for any reason. They’re barely 14 years old…for all we know, they may be homosexual! Certainly one of their friends may be homosexual, and they know it is their duty not just to refrain from bullying themselves, but to protect anyone being bullied from their tormentors. This doesn’t mean they’re going to have a lot of sympathy when a bunch of classmates decide they want to blow a class period, let alone an entire school day, to make a protest for a problem that isn’t taking place in the classroom.

If their classmates wanted to have a day of silence in-between classes, to give up tweeting and texting and joking with their friends and everything except the talking needed to do one’s school work (which is the kind of silence, incidentally, that a persecuted student is actually forced into), they might do that. But that is not what this is going to be, is it? No, the dramatic silences will be saved for the classroom, where it will waste time and learning opportunities, while the tittering and dramas that take place between classes will be carried on as usual, even if at a somewhat lower decibel level.

I’m also interested to know what is considered “persecution”. Is it persecution when the prom rules do not allow same-sex couples or boys in drag? I don’t think so. Yet when such rules are defended, the charge is often that the adults doing so have a “rigid, close minded, intolerant, discriminating, dogmatic, and judgmental attitude.” So while I am very much against cruelty towards anyone, that does not mean that I believe every sort of sexual preference ought to be normalized in high schools. I think morality lies in the middle ground–that is, not to normalize every behavior or preference, but to normalize every person, regardless of their behaviors or preferences.

 

[pnewton]

They aren’t, nor should they be.

Which is why I will never again support public schools or use them. I am fortunate enough to have a school with an open door policy. They do not hide from the parents what goes on in the classroom. Sneaky teachers and privacy from prying eyes are why we have so much indoctrination going on in the name of education, why we have so much more immorality, pre-marital sex, broken homes, etc. Our mandatory public education system may well be the number one factor in the decline of America.

There is a reason why adult businesses have windows painted over. Now schools do the same thing by policy. It is time to shine a light upon education and return it to its core mission.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No, my kids do not think that ever hair-brained “protest” that comes down the pike is actually going to accomplish what it says it is going to accomplish, and I have to agree with them.

They know that it is hard to be homosexual, and they know that it is utterly unacceptable to bully anyone for any reason. They’re barely 14 years old…for all we know, they may be homosexual! Certainly one of their friends may be homosexual, and they know it is their duty not just to refrain from bullying themselves, but to protect anyone being bullied from their tormentors. This doesn’t mean they’re going to have a lot of sympathy when a bunch of classmates decide they want to blow a class period, let alone an entire school day, to make a protest for a problem that isn’t taking place in the classroom.

If their classmates wanted to have a day of silence in-between classes, to give up tweeting and texting and joking with their friends and everything except the talking needed to do one’s school work (which is the kind of silence, incidentally, that a persecuted student is actually forced into), they might do that. But that is not what this is going to be, is it? No, the dramatic silences will be saved for the classroom, where it will waste time and learning opportunities, while the tittering and dramas that take place between classes will be carried on as usual, even if at a somewhat lower decibel level.

I’m also interested to know what is considered “persecution”. Is it persecution when the prom rules do not allow same-sex couples or boys in drag? I don’t think so. Yet when such rules are defended, the charge is often that the adults doing so have a “rigid, close minded, intolerant, discriminating, dogmatic, and judgmental attitude.” So while I am very much against cruelty towards anyone, that does not mean that I believe every sort of sexual preference ought to be normalized in high schools. I think morality lies in the middle ground–that is, not to normalize every behavior or preference, but to normalize every person, regardless of their behaviors or preferences.

Actually if you go to the Day of Silence website you’ll see that they do emphasize that students only have the right to do this during non instructional time and that if a teacher wants you to speak you must. They also stress that while students have a right to do this people who oppose homosexuals have a right to share their opinions as well.

When I was in high school this was a pretty well organized and respectful thing. In the morning all of the participants met for a silent breakfast, then one of the Christian kids would say a prayer (those who were uncomfortable stepped away for this) and then they went to school and were silent for the day except in classrooms. They also carried note cards with an explanation of the Day of Silence for anyone who asked. The kids took it seriously and it was a very respectful event.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Which is why I will never again support public schools or use them. I am fortunate enough to have a school with an open door policy. They do not hide from the parents what goes on in the classroom.

There’s a difference between hiding things from parents and letting parents walk freely in and out of classrooms, distracting both students and teachers and chilling otherwise appropriate discussion. I hope you agree.

Sneaky teachers and privacy from prying eyes are why we have so much indoctrination going on in the name of education, why we have so much more immorality, pre-marital sex, broken homes, etc. Our mandatory public education system may well be the number one factor in the decline of America.

You’re blaming public education for all of that? Come now. Parents are responsible.

 

[EasterJoy]

You’re blaming public education for all of that? Come now. Parents are responsible.

Why is that? Because it is possible for a parent to shield a 17 year old from all of these things? Because a 17 year old can’t make their own decisions, can’t choose to and are not encouraged by any other adults to defy their parents and the morality they were brought up in? Because a parent who would even try to shield a 17 year old from those things would never be criticized for being overprotective? Oh, please!

Public schools have been forced to become amoral vacuums, but not by their choice. It is the lawmakers who have removed morality from schools, who have deemed that religion is offensive to the general public. It is the law that says that adolescents are not too innocent to have access to birth control, but are too fragile to hear prayers said aloud.

The rules come from the whole of society, and society has deemed that even as childhood lengthens, the age of self-determination and the end of innocence comes sooner. Society has deemed that piety is an affront, that decorum is a straitjacket, that what sells the hope of popularity is what is good, and that brazenness is freedom. Parents can do their best, but there are limits to how much they can do to stop the effects of that.

 

[EasterJoy]

Actually if you go to the Day of Silence website you’ll see that they do emphasize that students only have the right to do this during non instructional time and that if a teacher wants you to speak you must. They also stress that while students have a right to do this people who oppose homosexuals have a right to share their opinions as well.

When I was in high school this was a pretty well organized and respectful thing. In the morning all of the participants met for a silent breakfast, then one of the Christian kids would say a prayer (those who were uncomfortable stepped away for this) and then they went to school and were silent for the day except in classrooms. They also carried note cards with an explanation of the Day of Silence for anyone who asked. The kids took it seriously and it was a very respectful event.

I don’t know that my kids would refuse to observe silence between classes…and how or why on earth would a parent forbid a child from refraining to make noise between classes?

I do have a quarrel with the phrase “people who oppose homosexuals”. That’s a sly little bit of misrepresentation there, isn’t it, hmmm?

 

[pnewton]

There’s a difference between hiding things from parents and letting parents walk freely in and out of classrooms, distracting both students and teachers and chilling otherwise appropriate discussion. I hope you agree.

You’re blaming public education for all of that? Come now. Parents are responsible.

I do not blame the parent in this situation. They are not responsible. As a matter of policy they have zero imput and even the ability to monitor the class. I am not suggesting that parents “walk in and out,” only that they be allowed to monitor classes** forced** upon** their** children if they see a need.

And yes, the more I hear, the less I care for our public education system, primarily because it has less and less to do with actual education each year.

 

[Corki]

It just wouldn’t work to have patents there. Students would not be able to ask questions or share thoughts and experiences freely.

Any topic that “wouldn’t work” if a parent were allowed to observe or to review material is not a topic for a high school classroom. Those are topics for the counselors office or a therapy group.