LGBT equality same as black equality

[nickybr38]

Perhaps a short list…both gay people and African Americans have struggled for the right to marry the one they love.

Both have and do struggle for the right to live where they chose without the threat of violence.

Both have and do struggle for the right to not be fired from their jobs because of sexual discrimination or racial discrimination.

Both groups struggled…and do struggle…with the status quo to be heard and respected.

Just a few things on the list. I’m sure you are able to think of some similarities between the two groups as they struggle for equality even if one deals with sexual orientation and the other with race.

Even shorter list:

You cannot choose to be African-American.
You can choose whether or not you will engage in sexual acts (some of which are actually harmful to the body).

 

[Publisher]

Our nation is not the arbiter, God is. Are you a fan of the popular culture found within our nation? Are you a practicing Quaker?

I am a very involved Quaker…and it would seem each of us has a different understanding of what God expects and wants of us…I am very content to allow God be the “arbiter”. He alone is Judge…I am content to place myself in the Everlasting Arms…it’s the best place to be.

 

[jwinch2]

There is a new community paper in our town that is being launched with the specific agenda to “advance the public agenda on behalf of the LGBT community”. I want to respond with a natutal law, non-religious argument why the LGBT and black equality issue are not comparable.

Any suggestions for how I articulate the argument that equality for the “Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transexual community” is not the same as “the equality that was fought for the black community” as they state.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

ignatius.com/promotions/sevenbigmyths/

Dr. Peter Kreeft stated that this book has the best breakdown of the Catholic position on Homosexuality and Gay Marriage that he has seen to date. Kreeft is a machine, so that would probably be a great place to start.

The articles I have attached have some good stuff in them as well. One of them is against gay marriage and written by someone who is openly gay.

Peace,

 

[fniper]

I am a very involved Quaker…and it would seem each of us has a different understanding of what God expects and wants of us…I am very content to allow God be the “arbiter”. He alone is Judge…I am content to place myself in the Everlasting Arms…it’s the best place to be.

Then Trust what His Word establishes, not what your ego does.

 

[Publisher]

Then Trust what His Word establishes, not what your ego does.

Friend, I do, just not what you believe the Word establishes…question…how are you able to determine my sense of “ego”? I understand many people think they have speical powers and occult abilities to look into others hearts and mind…do you also claim to be able to do the same? Just wonderin’

 

[fniper]

Friend, I do, just not what you believe the Word establishes…question…how are you able to determine my sense of “ego”? I understand many people think they have speical powers and occult abilities to look into others hearts and mind…do you also claim to be able to do the same? Just wonderin’

No I am not spooky guy. But I do see the slanting of the scriptures to fit a bias an act of ego not humility. Do you believe in the unholy spirit, satan? Was Gary Cooper a Quaker in the movie Friendly Persuasion? If so I do like being your friend. Great Movie.

 

[Publisher]

No I am not spooky guy. But I do see the slanting of the scriptures to fit a bias an act of ego not humility. Do you believe in the unholy spirit, satan? Was Gary Cooper a Quaker in the movie Friendly Persuasion? If so I do like being your friend. Great Movie.

No, I don’t believe in a “personal” satan. As far as humility goes…I guess I’ll have to work on that.

Gary Cooper portrayed a Friend in the movie adaption of Jessyman Wests “Friendly Persuasion”…the book and it’s companion “Except for Me and Thee” is much better than the movie…all though the movie is one of my favorite…I have it both on VCR and DVD.

 

[fniper]

No, I don’t believe in a “personal” satan. As far as humility goes…I guess I’ll have to work on that.

Gary Cooper portrayed a Friend in the movie adaption of Jessyman Wests “Friendly Persuasion”…the book and it’s companion “Except for Me and Thee” is much better than the movie…all though the movie is one of my favorite…I have it both on VCR and DVD.

The movie is a credit to Quakers if it is accurate. So you don;t think satan can influence and individual and tempt them toward sin?

 

[Publisher]

The movie is a credit to Quakers if it is accurate. So you don;t think satan can influence and individual and tempt them toward sin?

I don’t believe in a fallen angel that is the antithesis of God. Humanity is capable of great feats of evil and selfless acts of love all on our own without laying it at the feet of an outside entity.

 

[fniper]

I don’t believe in a fallen angel that is the antithesis of God. Humanity is capable of great feats of evil and selfless acts of love all on our own without laying it at the feet of an outside entity.

Satan can not make you do anything, neither does God. But I am interesting in what you make of Matthew25:41, It seems that Jesus knew of the Devil and his fallen angels. ANd by the way what do you make of Matthew 4:1-10. Who is the tempter and why would you think he would only tempt Jesus?

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

The problem with the LGBT community claiming status as a protected class is that membership in that community is SOLELY based upon behavior.

Alindawyl, this is not quite accurate. Someone is same-sex attracted (i.e., a homosexual) not because they have homosexual sex but because they are attracted to members of the same sex. No physical act need be accomplished for someone to know that they are a homosexual. Same-sex attraction does not refer to attraction to specific sexual acts but attraction to people of a specific sex.

It’s not necessarily obvious because they’ve been very successful at wrapping themselves tightly in the imagery of civil rights, and using that imagery to present themselves as discriminated against for “what they are”. But they don’t merely ask for acceptance of what they are, which is people who feel certain desires. They want acceptance of what they DO based on feeling those desires.

In the world at large, I’ve not known anti-homosexual sentiment to discriminate between homosexuals who have homosexual sex and those who do not. All that is needed for such sentiment to manifest is one of two things: 1) an actual admission that one is same-sex attracted; or 2) the mere* perception* that one is same-sex attracted, whether or not that perception is accurate. The anti-homosexual sentiment I’ve personally experienced has usually been of the 2nd sort, and the perpetrators of it did not bother to notice that I was not having homosexual sex when I walked passed them, nor did they ask if I was planning on having homosexual sex in the near future, nor were they interested in knowing whether or not I had engaged in homosexual sex in the past.

The LGBT community doesn’t view their disordered desires as disordered. As far as they’re concerned, they feel a desire to act in a certain way and should be permitted to do so simply because they feel a desire to act in a certain way. The mere existence of that desire is all it takes in their minds to justify it.

This is also not quite accurate. Granted, most same-sex attracted folks are not too keen on the language of disorder either because they are not familiar with the Roman Catholic moral theological context in which the word is used or because they do not feel that the concupiscence a same-sex attracted person expereicne is any more deviant or disordered than that which an opposite-sex attracted person experiences. But I don’t think anyone other than a child or a naif could take seriously (or seriously make) an argument that simple desire in itself justifies anything and in any context. As far as I understand it, that’s not the argument that the LGBT “community” makes.

Just as one example, rather than explain why it’s in the public interest to permit the redefinition of marriage and legislate societal acceptance of same sex marriage, those in the LGBT community pushing for it have chosen to present the lack of it as discrimination. That way, they’ve neatly sidestepped any need to explain themselves. Why go to the trouble of convincing people that your desired sexual activities are good?

But that’s not actually the argument, Alindawyl. The argument for SSM is not that some or all same-sex sexual acts are good (indeed, sexual activity doesn’t actually need to enter the equation)–the argument is based on the perception that marriage is a public commitment to the relationship one has with one’s beloved through the declaration of consent and exchanging of vows and that this public act is a good thing a) for one’s community through the construction of a household (which is seen, at least by the state, as a valuable economic and/or cultural unit); and b) for the mutual uplift, growth and support of the married couple in their ongoing lives of love together. So the issue, from the perspective of most same-sex attracted folks who support or believe in SSM, is not “Everyone must accept my relationship and whatever sexual deviance I get up to in the bedroom!” but “If marriage is the public declaration of consent and exchanging of vows with the one you love, and if the state is content to grant benefits and responsibilities to couples who make such a public act without caring whether or not such couples either desire to produce or are capable of producing children, then why should a same-sex couple be denied the opportunity to make such a public act?” Sexual acts, whether homosexual or heterosexual, need not enter the equation and are, in fact, irrelevant to it.

I choose not to play according to the rules they wish to use because there is a clear problem with granting protected class status to the LGBT community. If we’re going to change the idea of a protected class to include ongoing chosen behavior (not everyone who feels these disordered desires presents their desires as something which MUST be acted upon), we would be determining that certain behaviors place one into a protected class without defining WHY such behavior needs to be protected.

Again, it’s not about behavior but more about how our sexual orientation (whether same-sex or opposite-sex) relates to and is expressive of our shared humanity regardless of whether or not we ever choose to engage in sexual activity.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

 

[edwest2]

Perhaps a short list…both gay people and African Americans have struggled for the right to marry the one they love.

Both have and do struggle for the right to live where they chose without the threat of violence.

Both have and do struggle for the right to not be fired from their jobs because of sexual discrimination or racial discrimination.

Both groups struggled…and do struggle…with the status quo to be heard and respected.

Just a few things on the list. I’m sure you are able to think of some similarities between the two groups as they struggle for equality even if one deals with sexual orientation and the other with race.

This is all about sex. Unless they wear white makeup (Eddie Murphy did it once), black people can’t hide that they are black, and the average LGBT person has no need to disclose their sexual orientation, unless a man decides to wear a wig, high heels, and women’s makeup in public. What is desired - is pure, 100%, it doesn’t matter how you have sex. In the past, sex was private. Today - what I’m hearing is that LGBT activists won’t settle for leave us alone. They want everyone to believe that their private sex lives should be public and everybody should approve. Just like in an earlier example I wrote: No one walks up to anybody and says, “Hi. I’m Bob and I’m a chronic masturbator - and proud of it.” Sorry, Bob. We don’t care if you masturbate or not, but please don’t bring public scandal to yourself and others by telling everybody and telling everybody it’s OK."

So what’s going on in states where gay marriage is legal? Gay couples live like everybody else, right? Wrong. One gay man is a school teacher and he is going to introduce his husband to your kid’s entire elementary class, and he might even bring some kid’s books to class that teach being gay is OK. More home schooling is coming. A lot more. That is called indoctrination.

There is zero comparison. None at all.

The problem facing Western Society today is that sex is viewed as a toy. In too many cases, it has become totally divorced from procreation - IT’S PRIMARY BIOLOGICAL PURPOSE. Orgasms are the icing on the cake in a married, committed relationship. Any other use is, by definition, a deviation and misuse.

Nothing has changed, but Catholics reading this who have sex outside of marriage – please wake up. Everybody’s doing it is no excuse. No, it’s not a norm. Porn is not a norm either, and it degrades both sexes. Now it’s “just sex” like using a toilet. The person’s name? Why bother.

SO HERE WE ARE FOLKS. IT’S THE END OF THE LINE. FAMILIES FIRST, ORGASMS SECOND. RELATIONSHIPS - not two dogs meeting in an alley, having sex and parting ways.

There is one biologically natural sexual orientation.

Finally, I have no problem with gay (SSA) people even after they mention it. One of my favorite designers turns out to be gay, but that won’t stop me from admiring his work.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Publisher]

Satan can not make you do anything, neither does God. But I am interesting in what you make of Matthew25:41, It seems that Jesus knew of the Devil and his fallen angels. ANd by the way what do you make of Matthew 4:1-10. Who is the tempter and why would you think he would only tempt Jesus?

Friend, to not derail the thread any further…I’ll answer you on another thread or IM.

 

[Publisher]

This is all about sex. Unless they wear white makeup (Eddie Murphy did it once), black people can’t hide that they are black, and the average LGBT person has no need to disclose their sexual orientation, unless a man decides to wear a wig, high heels, and women’s makeup in public. What is desired - is pure, 100%, it doesn’t matter how you have sex. In the past, sex was private. Today - what I’m hearing is that LGBT activists won’t settle for leave us alone. They want everyone to believe that their private sex lives should be public and everybody should approve. Just like in an earlier example I wrote: No one walks up to anybody and says, “Hi. I’m Bob and I’m a chronic masturbator - and proud of it.” Sorry, Bob. We don’t care if you masturbate or not, but please don’t bring public scandal to yourself and others by telling everybody and telling everybody it’s OK."

So what’s going on in states where gay marriage is legal? Gay couples live like everybody else, right? Wrong. One gay man is a school teacher and he is going to introduce his husband to your kid’s entire elementary class, and he might even bring some kid’s books to class that teach being gay is OK. More home schooling is coming. A lot more. That is called indoctrination.

There is zero comparison. None at all.

The problem facing Western Society today is that sex is viewed as a toy. In too many cases, it has become totally divorced from procreation - IT’S PRIMARY BIOLOGICAL PURPOSE. Orgasms are the icing on the cake in a married, committed relationship. Any other use is, by definition, a deviation and misuse.

Nothing has changed, but Catholics reading this who have sex outside of marriage – please wake up. Everybody’s doing it is no excuse. No, it’s not a norm. Porn is not a norm either, and it degrades both sexes. Now it’s “just sex” like using a toilet. The person’s name? Why bother.

SO HERE WE ARE FOLKS. IT’S THE END OF THE LINE. FAMILIES FIRST, ORGASMS SECOND. RELATIONSHIPS - not two dogs meeting in an alley, having sex and parting ways.

There is one biologically natural sexual orientation.

Finally, I have no problem with gay (SSA) people even after they mention it. One of my favorite designers turns out to be gay, but that won’t stop me from admiring his work.

Peace,
Ed

And it is this characterization of the lives of gay people that will further the status of equality along…gay peoples relationships are no more only about sex than straight peoples…but that is the arguement I read…much like “two dogs in an alley” arguement…and people wonder why the GLBT community removes itself away from the various faith traditions.

 

[fniper]

Friend, to not derail the thread any further…I’ll answer you on another thread or IM.

Have a good day, evening or night whatever the case is where you find yourself, friend.

 

[edwest2]

And it is this characterization of the lives of gay people that will further the status of equality along…gay peoples relationships are no more only about sex than straight peoples…but that is the arguement I read…much like “two dogs in an alley” arguement…and people wonder why the GLBT community removes itself away from the various faith traditions.

My two dogs in an alley comment was directed to everybody. What is a “faith tradition.”? All groups have traditions based on a number of factors. I understand why the Catholic Church is the focus of so much attention by the LGBT community. We know what natural law teaches - as in biology. We know what sex is made for. Anything else can be properly called a deviation - and that applies equally to gay and straight people.

The current problem is the propaganda being published in forums like this. And the other real problem is a few posts I’ve read here and a few books by gay people (in one case, a lesbian of 30 years) turning away from their gay practices. But that would not make a good talking point for this false comparison between gays and blacks.

The point is - no one is certain regarding all the possible factors involved in anyone being gay/SSA. And the lie that it’s not about sex. Of course it is. Job one before this whole “gay marriage” thing got off the ground was to to strike down sodomy laws in the US. Look it up. The pattern is clear.

And let’s be honest. Any straight guy here will not be able to tell you he is attracted to girls but never had any sexual thoughts regarding them. Most guys are looking to date - or whatever the vague substitute is for some - but for some guys, it’s have sex, and walk away. To Catholics. Dating good. Hooking up, bad.

Peace,
Ed

 

[aragonjohn1]

• lifesitenews.com/mobile/n…ho-is-to-blame

An excerpt:

Who is to blame? First, the government is to blame for casting overboard its obligation to defend the common good, just so it curries favour with the powerful gay lobby and its allies in the mainstream media.* Secondly, school boards for going along with this social engineering experiment.* Third, the militant gay-activist organizations who don’t really care whether people with same-sex attraction live or die, so long as their sexual revolution is successful.* These radical activists are using people with same-sex attraction as pawns in their war against the Judeo-Christian world view.* They actively deny that AIDS is a gay disease when almost 70% of new AIDS cases come from less than 2% of the population – that is, gay males.* The mounting body count does not seem to matter at all to these sex-activists. Only the goal of sexual revolution.

note please try to remember the teachings of the church on dignity and how they apply

Relevant link from article

• campaignlifecoalition.com…_myth_debunked

Shalom
God bless y’all

 

[TimeEntrance]

If genetics, still a young field, effects one’s sexual orientation, it’s obviosly related to genetics. It has been neither proven beyond a doubt…nor denied beyond a doubt…genetics appears to have a definte impact on sexual orientation in some way…human sexuality is so complex, at this time…we simply do not know, and ANY thinking individual would be able to understand that as well.

I’ll agree with you that human sexuality is more complex than many of usually recognize.

But it is unlikely L or G or B or T are genetically heritable traits. We already know identical twins that share the same DNA have had one male sibling become transsexual (female) while the other identifies as male. We know among other identical twins that one might be homosexual while another is heterosexual.

Personally, I think all human infants are asexual and that sexual orientation develops later and that gender identity is something that is largely environmentally influenced. Or as one geneticist put it… the causes to human sexual orientations and behaviors are probably a lot more nuanced.

What is more interesting is that no one seems to ask, “What would make a pedophile (of any sexual orientation) want to be a pedophile when it causes him so much discrimination?”

In popular society we tend to think females have the most same sex relationships. But actually, supposedly the statistics suggest that males have far more same sex relationships. Not by a little. Scientist have inquired as to why? But I think it’s an interesting point question because so far as I know the vast majority of pedophiles are male and not female.

It will sound like I’m biased and subjective because the media tends to report the biased research that incorrectly concludes from their research and statistical data that homosexuality is “significantly” genetically caused. But the inferences from the data are erroneous (even if they were true they would not make homosexuality - or heterosexual pedophilia morally correct). To leap to the conclusion that since 30% of the sample (small sample) that had gene G are gay while 70% of the sample that had gene G are straight means that homosexuality is “significantly genetically” caused is an inaccurate translation of the language of math into English.

We know if two people that have the Sickle Cell gene have a child 100% (not 30% of the time) of the time the child will have Sickle Cell Anemia. We can logically, deductively, consider the cause genetic.

I’ll try to link the book of bio-mathematician Ian Stewart who can articulate this stuff far better than I. But he is certainly not the first scientist to take note of this inaccurate inference from statistical data applied to biology and genetics.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Here’s an article on Identical Twins related to this subject of genetics.

abcnews.go.com/Health/identical-twin-boys-transgender-brother-sister/story?id=15142268#.UH35BVFAXU0

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Born identical twins, the siblings share the same DNA, but their gender identification took divergent paths. Now, at age 14, they are brother and sister, as Wyatt’s transition to Nicole is well under way.

Nicole is 5-feet, 1-inch tall and 100 pounds; her twin brother is 5-feet, 6-inches and weighs 115 pounds – and they are best friends.

The majority of all children who express the belief that they are the wrong gender, will enter puberty and go on to identify with their biological gender, according to Spack.

“Of all little kids who are gender variant, 20 percent will stick with it,” he said. “Over 80 percent will accept looking like Jonas and would push talk about cutting off [their penis.]”

That is why doctors wait for children like Nicole to show the first sign of puberty before giving them blockers and the treatments are reversible.

But giving a prepubescent child hormones of the opposite sex has permanent effects like halting their development, closing up growth plates. Using puberty blockers “buys us time, so they can extend the diagnostic phase,” Spack said.

This is the part that may be of more interest in the issue of genetic heritability and genetics being the cause.

“Obviously everything isn’t DNA,” said Spack. “Parents tell you identical twins are different. But what this means in terms of transgenderism altogether, we are in a primitive state of understanding this.”

 

[LucyLight]

Check out this short video from Bishop E.W. Jackson titled, Message to Black Christians.
I love this guy! He addresses black civil rights in relation to LGBT rights.

I suggest you watch the whole video because its short and amazing. If you want you can just start watching at 1:05.

youtube.com/watch?v=OIKbN5UiYac&feature=related

(I apologize if someone has already posted this)