LGBT Mass stirs the pot in the Catholic Church

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Can anyone help me understand how this Catholic Church is allowed to celebrate what the Catholic Church would deem as a disorder? I know the Catholic Church accepts people with same-sex attraction, and we are called to love all people. But when I see articles like this, I feel like there are some who are not making clear what the Catholic Church really teaches. Would anyone have any information on possible responses to parishes that conduct activities as such? It just seems like celebrating something that is intrinsically evil or disordered, meaning acting on those same-sex attractions, seems to lead to issues where Catholics think that the Church actually proclaims that homosexuality is okay.

Note – this was forwarded to me from someone who believes the Catholic Church has gone astray. So, if anyone has any information or can provide any help, guidance, or support, I would greatly appreciated!

nccnews.expressions.syr.edu/?p=17364

newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/quote-to-note-catholic-parish-hosts-pride-prayer-service/

Thanks!!!
 
Same thing here…even though the Archbishop specifically asked them not to march in the Gay Pride Parade as a PARISH. He said as individuals they were free to attend and participate but he didn’t want it to appear that the Church was promoting homosexuality, transgender and whatever is in this alphabet soup of sexual disorders.

Unfortunately three Parishes in this Archdiocese attended and marched. I sent pictures to CAF…😦 People certainly have the right to PERSONALLY take a position on an issue but to infer the Church was in lockstep with their personal opinions was truly outrageous.

I wonder what will happen to these parishes?

Lisa
 
It’s not the gay pride thing I have a problem with, it’s the fact that the parish is very openly defying Church teaching by doing this.
 
Can anyone help me understand how this Catholic Church is allowed to celebrate what the Catholic Church would deem as a disorder? I know the Catholic Church accepts people with same-sex attraction, and we are called to love all people. But when I see articles like this, I feel like there are some who are not making clear what the Catholic Church really teaches. Would anyone have any information on possible responses to parishes that conduct activities as such? It just seems like celebrating something that is intrinsically evil or disordered, meaning acting on those same-sex attractions, seems to lead to issues where Catholics think that the Church actually proclaims that homosexuality is okay.

Note – this was forwarded to me from someone who believes the Catholic Church has gone astray. So, if anyone has any information or can provide any help, guidance, or support, I would greatly appreciated!

nccnews.expressions.syr.edu/?p=17364

newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/quote-to-note-catholic-parish-hosts-pride-prayer-service/

Thanks!!!
BTW thought this was interesting from your article above:

***The LGBT mass is admittedly confusing. Meg Ksander, Director of Parish Life at All Saint’s Church, shook her head and lowered her voice to a whisper when she said that homosexuality is still considered a sin. “The official stance of the Roman Catholic church is that homosexuality is considered to be a disorder or to be somewhat deviant,” she said.

And Cerosaletti said the same thing. “The church is still caught up in this idea that it’s an intrinsic moral disorder,” he said. But it is that attitude that he wants to change as soon as possible. “We wait expectantly in hope for the time when the institutional church chooses to dialogue in a meaningful way with its LGBT children,” he said. “Which, in truth, has never really happened yet.”

He says most LGBT Catholics feel discriminated against and scapegoated by the church. The Catholic community, though, is a different story. Cerosaletti says most people are very supportive of them, and they have never encountered protestors.

Is This Allowed? The Gay Priest

A group of peaceful, non-political LGBT worshippers is one thing. But when Father Fred Daley came out in 2004 to the Observer-Dispatch in Utica, controversy abounded. He was being interviewed after receiving the “Real Hero” award for his ministry work. He told the Observer-Dispatch ”I myself am gay, and I am committed to living a celibate life.”***

Note that the Priest although admitting SSA says he is celibate (chaste for laypersons) but that is often forgotten in the discussion. The Church’s position on SSA is the same as others who are not in a traditional male/female marriage. Yet often the teaching on SSA is deemed anti homosexul.

You might point out to your friend that the Priest IS living his faith. I am not sure about being open with his SSA issues is appropriate but it’s not the Church going astray, it’s those who wish to openly live as homosexuals and expect the Church to follow along…note the comment from the parishioner…“the CHURCH must change…”

It’s unfortunate though that such special Masses, parades and other event become very confusing to those inside and outside of the Church

Lisa
 
I have conversed with an activist type gay Catholic who is convinced that it is just a matter of time until the Catholic Church changes its stance on homosexuality, and starts endorsing and conducting gay marriages. As we see, support for this change is beginning to be blatant in some parishes. As for the priest “coming out” as “gay”, I think he did that for his own worldly ego needs. There is a lifestyle and belief system attached to the word “gay” that a priest should have nothing to do with, and therefore cannot be gay regardless of whatever sexual attractions he may feel. Would a priest with back pain who desires narcotic pain relievers but has decided never to take any ever “come out” as a drug addict? Of course not.
 
Note that the Priest although admitting SSA says he is celibate (chaste for laypersons) but that is often forgotten in the discussion. The Church’s position on SSA is the same as others who are not in a traditional male/female marriage. Yet often the teaching on SSA is deemed anti homosexul.
newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
Celibacy of the Clergy
Celibacy is the renunciation of marriage implicitly or explicitly made, for the more perfect observance of chastity, by all those who receive the Sacrament of Orders in any of the higher grades
this priest is not celibate ,if by celibate he means the renunciation of marriage to a man. marriage between members of the same sex is not possible, and i’m not sure that he is chaste
.Chastity is the virtue which excludes or moderates the indulgence of the sexual appetite
the appetites are directed towards right goals ,sex is directed to procreation.with same sex activity of course this is not possible. all he is doing is not engaging in sin,which we all are called to do. he wants approval and adulation for not engaging in a sin. well ,three cheers for me ,i haven’t masturbated today.
 
Eery. I looked it up to make sure this is the same All Saints parish on Lancaster Ave. that I sometimes attended when I lived in Syracuse since I could walk there, and the same priest who replaced the old one shortly before I left. I went to this priest for confession at least once. Still, it does not surprise me very much.
 
People certainly have the right to PERSONALLY take a position on an issue
That is not what obedience is about. If I belong to a community, I live in lovely interdependence with my brothers. I do not create division and become reason of scandal, simply because I am too proud or too ignorant to understand the teachings of Holy Mother Church. Of course, if the Archbishop had redacted good old letters of excommunication and posted them on the wall of the Cathedral, then “people” would realize that the right to free will is not a right to do wrong.
 
That is not what obedience is about. If I belong to a community, I live in lovely interdependence with my brothers. I do not create division and become reason of scandal, simply because I am too proud or too ignorant to understand the teachings of Holy Mother Church. Of course, if the Archbishop had redacted good old letters of excommunication and posted them on the wall of the Cathedral, then “people” would realize that the right to free will is not a right to do wrong.
I don’t think he meant the Priest who didn’t participate but the parishioners, several of whom marched holding a banner with the Parish’s name. I do agree that the disobedient parishioners have created scandal with their marching and by their blatant disobedience. But you don’t see too many clear excommunications these days.

Lisa
 
I don’t think he meant the Priest who didn’t participate but the parishioners, several of whom marched holding a banner with the Parish’s name. I do agree that the disobedient parishioners have created scandal with their marching and by their blatant disobedience. But you don’t see too many clear excommunications these days.

Lisa
Which is why they would be more effective. After all, we are not talking about shunning people, only about pointing out loud and clear that this behavior was a self-imposed separation from the community which requires repentance and reconciliation.
 
Which is why they would be more effective. After all, we are not talking about shunning people, only about pointing out loud and clear that this behavior was a self-imposed separation from the community which requires repentance and reconciliation.
Well our Archbishop is a courageous man. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that he was sent to the Land of Nod. It’s a VERY secular state, gay friendly, abortion friendly, and anything else friendly OTHER than Christianity in any form 😦

I’ve been watching for any response from the Archdiocese although presumably any correspondence would be private.

Lisa
 
Well our Archbishop is a courageous man. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that he was sent to the Land of Nod. It’s a VERY secular state, gay friendly, abortion friendly, and anything else friendly OTHER than Christianity in any form 😦

I’ve been watching for any response from the Archdiocese although presumably any correspondence would be private.

Lisa
Of course, I sound presumptuous here 😃 I am not trying to tell the bishop how to do his job (God forbid :eek:), nor am I advocating for excommunications :o I was just pointing out my belief that we (well, some of us) have forgotten the disciplinary part of being a disciple of the Lord 🙂

I am sure that His Excellency is handling the matter in the way that prudence and wisdom suggest him to be most appropriate. All we can do is pray and do penance…
 
Of course, I sound presumptuous here 😃 I am not trying to tell the bishop how to do his job (God forbid :eek:), nor am I advocating for excommunications :o I was just pointing out my belief that we (well, some of us) have forgotten the disciplinary part of being a disciple of the Lord 🙂

I am sure that His Excellency is handling the matter in the way that prudence and wisdom suggest him to be most appropriate. All we can do is pray and do penance…
👍 no worries I had no illusion you were inferring Archbishop Sample would not know what to do. I felt it was truly unfortunate that as a new Archbishop, he would be treated so disrespectfully by these well meaning but surely poorly catechized folks. As a Convert I am constantly learning more about my faith but what AMAZES me is the number of cradle Catholics who either forgot or maybe never learned some of the fundamental Church teachings.

They would be the ones with Obama stickers on their Priuses!

Lisa
 
BTW thought this was interesting from your article above:

The LGBT mass is admittedly confusing. Meg Ksander, Director of Parish Life at All Saint’s Church, shook her head and lowered her voice to a whisper when she said that homosexuality is still considered a sin. “The official stance of the Roman Catholic church is that homosexuality is considered to be a disorder or to be somewhat deviant,” she said.

And Cerosaletti said the same thing. “The church is still caught up in this idea that it’s an intrinsic moral disorder,” he said. But it is that attitude that he wants to change as soon as possible. “We wait expectantly in hope for the time when the institutional church chooses to dialogue in a meaningful way with its LGBT children,” he said. “Which, in truth, has never really happened yet.”

He says most LGBT Catholics feel discriminated against and scapegoated by the church. The Catholic community, though, is a different story. Cerosaletti says most people are very supportive of them, and they have never encountered protestors.

Is This Allowed? The Gay Priest

A group of peaceful, non-political LGBT worshippers is one thing. But when Father Fred Daley came out in 2004 to the Observer-Dispatch in Utica, controversy abounded. He was being interviewed after receiving the “Real Hero” award for his ministry work. He told the Observer-Dispatch ”I myself am gay, and I am committed to living a celibate life.”


Note that the Priest although admitting SSA says he is celibate (chaste for laypersons) but that is often forgotten in the discussion. The Church’s position on SSA is the same as others who are not in a traditional male/female marriage. Yet often the teaching on SSA is deemed anti homosexul.

You might point out to your friend that the Priest IS living his faith. I am not sure about being open with his SSA issues is appropriate but it’s not the Church going astray, it’s those who wish to openly live as homosexuals and expect the Church to follow along…note the comment from the parishioner…“the CHURCH must change…”

It’s unfortunate though that such special Masses, parades and other event become very confusing to those inside and outside of the Church

Lisa
Kind of reminds me of the “confusion” years back over birth control, and even living together outside of marriage. Seems as though the message was mixed, as were many other messages. And…the confusion continues.
 
Yes. It would almost seem like there’s some kind of incoherence in the Church’s teaching regarding homosexuality. Almost.
 
Yes. It would almost seem like there’s some kind of incoherence in the Church’s teaching regarding homosexuality. Almost.
Nothing really new because we know by looking at Church history there have always been those who promote one false teaching or another. Arius caused confusion in the early Church to the point even a small number of bishops supported his heresy which denied that Christ was fully God. That’s why Church Councils are convened, to clarify the faith and condemn falsehood.
 
Yes. It would almost seem like there’s some kind of incoherence in the Church’s teaching regarding homosexuality. Almost.
I don’t think the teaching is incoherent, it’s just many people don’t take the time and try to understand it. There is an excellent summary on this site that lays it out well. Unfortunately I never learned any of this in RCIA or certainly not from any homilies or programs.

Unfortunately Catholics have a lot of responsibility to learn their faith, it’s not being spoon fed to them. Many just don’t bother or they hear the usual “Catholics don’t allow homosexuals in the door” (this was actually from a UCC commercial of a few years ago!) or that the Church is “against” homosexuals just like the Church is “against” ABC. It’s not quite so simple but it’s understandable if someone takes the time.

Lisa
 
Kind of reminds me of the “confusion” years back over birth control, and even living together outside of marriage. Seems as though the message was mixed, as were many other messages. And…the confusion continues.
Yes. It would almost seem like there’s some kind of incoherence in the Church’s teaching regarding homosexuality. Almost.
This scripture came to mind, as well as Pope Paul VI’s famous " … the smoke of Satan had entered into the Church …"

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_PS5.HTM#3S
**Ezekiel 33:1-16 **
1 Thus the word of the LORD came to me:
2 Son of man, speak thus to your countrymen: When I bring the sword against a country, and the people of this country select one of their number to be their watchman,
3 and the watchman, seeing the sword coming against the country, blows the trumpet to warn the people,
4 anyone hearing but not heeding the warning of the trumpet and therefore slain by the sword that comes against him, shall be responsible for his own death.
5 He heard the trumpet blast yet refused to take warning; he is responsible for his own death, for had he taken warning he would have escaped with his life.
6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and fails to blow the warning trumpet, so that the sword comes and takes anyone, I will hold the watchman responsible for that person’s death, even though that person is taken because of his own sin.
7 You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel; when you hear me say anything, you shall warn them for me.
8 If I tell the wicked man that he shall surely die, and you do not speak out to dissuade the wicked man from his way, he (the wicked man) shall die for his guilt, but I will hold you responsible for his death.
9 But if you warn the wicked man, trying to turn him from his way, and he refuses to turn from his way, he shall die for his guilt, but you shall save yourself.
10 As for you, son of man, speak to the house of Israel: You people say, “Our crimes and our sins weigh us down; we are rotting away because of them. How can we survive?”
11 Answer them: As I live, says the Lord GOD, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man’s conversion, that he may live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! Why should you die, O house of Israel?
12 As for you, son of man, tell your countrymen: The virtue which a man has practiced will not save him on the day that he sins; neither will the wickedness that a man has done bring about his downfall on the day that he turns from his wickedness (nor can the virtuous man, when he sins, remain alive).
13 Though I say to the virtuous man that he shall surely live, if he then presumes on his virtue and does wrong, none of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered; because of the wrong he has done, he shall die.
14 And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just,
15 giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16 None of the sins he committed shall be held against him; he has done what is right and just, he shall surely live.
^ I highlighted certain verses that applied to the “confusion” problem - and its consequences - and God’s purpose (salvation FROM evil and unto heaven).

Per LGBT, here’s a confusion from the outset. It might be translated as “anything goes sexually” (and “we” preach this fervently, and enforce this wherever we can, as a political and educational orthodoxy that mustn’t be dissented from). The “anything goes” part seems not to be complete - as some things are not (yet) endorsed - but the crazytrain is bound in that direction.

Christ died “for all” (even atheists Pope Francis reminded us recently), so all are eligible to receive salvation. And so the Church DOES reach out to all (sinners and “good” alike).

But per birth control, living together sexually outside of marriage, sinning sexually inside or outside of marriage, and justifying sexual sins of any type (LGBT “lifestyles” and beyond)

– rather than seeking graces to overcome the sins and live morally

– Church warnings must be as clear as the loving encouragements

– if the Church is to save souls rather than to make at risk souls more comfortable

– (with their heterodox decisions) in the time they have left before the accounting.

Such Church leaders, who lead randomly and warn not at all when warning is the loving and right thing to do - might lose their own way to and through the narrow door Christ speaks of. (For some reason) :gopray2:

An LGBT “Mass” ought to be clearly one where the outreach is a real and holy offering of graces to those who sincerely want to be more holy yet have some hard to overcome temptations dogging their path as they try to spiritually crawl, stand, and walk toward God.

Without it seeming to be a judgement but a wonderful opportunity, confessionals should be opened prior to the mass so that communions received at the mass will not be sacrilegious but a strength to the holy souls courageously beginning anew.

That mass (should it be labelled as it is?) should not be a political flag planted in the sanctuary by the profane to mark territory. Nor a “meet market” for the rebellious or antagonists to the faith to plan further misbehaviors under the color of such being acceptable to … or even sanctioned by the Church.

Nor should it even appear to be. :tsktsk:
 


… and another thing. What’s all this I hear about pot being at the Mass in Catholic Church?
Stirring it is better than lighting it … but it should … not … be … there! Next thing you know
there’ll be even WORSE things in the Church.
 
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