LGBT Policy at work

[LisaB]

Here is what I would do. First, consult with an orthodox priest or theologian or otherwise research this issue to confirm that indeed what’s being asked of you is immoral.

If it is, you can talk to your boss and explain that you cannot as a matter of conscience do what they are asking. If they insist, you can either try to fight it or quit. Violating your well informed conscience is not an option, and God will most surely provide a different job if you end up out of work for His sake. But, because your job might be at stake over this, I would make sure my conscience is very well formed on the issue first.

 

[LisaB]

Yes, one would think so, but if, for example, non-hostile work environment for transgender individuals means using opposite gender restrooms, that very policy would make the work environment hostile to others who don’t wish to use co-ed bathrooms.

 

[Thorolfr]

Yes, one would think so, but if, for example, non-hostile work environment for transgender individuals means using opposite gender restrooms, that very policy would make the work environment hostile to others who don’t wish to use co-ed bathrooms.

So which restroom at work should a trans-man use? Wouldn’t it freak out the women to have someone using their restroom who looks like a man and maybe even has a beard even though this person is genetically XX?

 

[anon65111186]

I’ve worked in corporate HR for literally decades. There’s no such policy.

Anecdotal evidence that such policies don’t exist neither helps nor answers my questions.

 

[PJH_74]

It’s not about respecting Transgender people in the broad sense, it is about recognizing their right to be called whatever they want, whether that is legally their name or biologically their gender.

I’m not sure what you are defining as respect, not jailing (it does happen in some countries) transgender people might be called respect to some. As for names, would you hold the same feeling about people using different or preferred names outside a transgender sense? I know you wouldn’t. What you don’t like is that you feel this is a burden on you. No one is asking you to accept the implications of this on your beliefs, but we do things everyday to be courteous to each other. Few transgender people are really looking to be offensive, they are looking to carve out a space for themselves in a world that can be hostile about doing so.

Saying a man is a woman or that Eve is actually now Steve (another gender) is indeed not a statement of fact. Adding or removing sexual organs, lipstick, clothing etc does not change the sexual meaning of the body God gave. We can’t change our chromosomes or our biology. Any biologist who said we could would be laughed out of their department, because it just isn’t so.

You are right, there is biology at play but we are so much more than that. There are more than a few identical twins where one is transgender and one is not. Gender roles are of a creation of humans. Before you get Biblical on me, consider how biased and limited the roles of women were vs now. Would you really support Biblical roles for women now?

Hostility towards transgender people is minimally based on biology, it is based on social opinions of what is rights and wrong for one gender; lipstick, clothing etc. Honestly ask yourself does, a person trying to inhabit male space vs a feminine space bother you more if you feel it’s one they not entitled to by your reckoning? I’ll know the honest opinion is that male to female is worse for most people. I can cite many examples. This is a clear sign of societal constructions.

So if they told you to do something against your deeply held religious beliefs, you should do it or quit? That would be a hostile work environment, which is illegal.

No, it’s not. Asking you to do something that is a part of your job description is not. You should be expertly aware that this country’s jobs are mainly employment at will. You can leave if it is that much of an issue for you. A hostile work environment is one that involves harassment, quid pro quo, and straight up pervasive favoritism. There is no need to frame this as a zero sum game. There are ways to delegate this task or speak to you manager about this. If you are not blocking the implementation of something upper management wants, there should be some sort of workable accommodation solution. Is there another project you really want to take part in? If speaking to your manager, come to the table with a frame work of a workable solution.

 

[anon65111186]

Yes, part of coming here was to gather information from faithful Catholics, including priests etc.

I will though, good advice!

 

[Axsenex]

So you’re saying normal people are special?

 

[anon65111186]

So you’re saying normal people are special?

What are you talking about?

 

[anon65111186]

I’m not sure what you are defining as respect, not jailing (it does happen in some countries) transgender people might be called respect to some. As for names, would you hold the same feeling about people using different or preferred names outside a transgender sense? I know you wouldn’t. What you don’t like is that you feel this is a burden on you. No one is asking you to accept the implications of this on your beliefs, but we do things everyday to be courteous to each other. Few transgender people are really looking to be offensive, they are looking to carve out a space for themselves in a world that can be hostile about doing so.

I was replying to another person so you’ll have to ask them what they meant by respect.

Just like I said, if my preffered name was Lord, Master, or CEO, when I wasn’t any of those, how would you feel about using them, and making everyone use them for myself?

I may think it’s courteous for you to call me my preferred name “Superiorman” but you may not, I may not be meaning to be offensive, just carve out a place for myself.

Gender roles does not entail changing your pronoun and wearing lipstick if you’re a man. Plenty of men do traditional woman’s roles without wearing high heels and vice versa.

Don’t try to muddy the waters and conflate woman’s rights and roles in society with transgenderism, they are not in the same ballpark.

There was no place in my job description that said “you must draft a policy that makes sure that everyone must call transgender employees by their preferred pronoun and treat them as if they were the sex they are pretending to be.”

Again, I didn’t make a zero sum game, I was responding to another post if you’d kindly read above.

I wasn’t asking people to evaluate my own solution, or to encourage me to come up with my own, I was asking if people had any ideas, and if they thought affirming someone in transgender behavior was morally compatible with Catholic teaching.

Do you yourself personally think it is morally okay to become trans gendered and mutilate your sex organs, change your given name, and pretend you are the other sex completely?

 

[PLeeD]

What we have here is, Christians engaging in personal interpretation of scripture, and creating their own Doctrine. There is no official and inviolable teaching by the Catholic Church that referring to a transgender person by the pronoun that matches how they are presenting themselves is any sort of a moral problem.

 

[PJH_74]

I may think it’s courteous for you to call me my preferred name “Superiorman” but you may not…

Did you ever think of the courage it takes to come our as transgender? It’s not something people do lightly and mocking the situation with things like this are not even close.

There was no place in my job description that said “you must draft a policy that makes sure that everyone must call transgender employees by their preferred pronoun and treat them as if they were the sex they are pretending to be.”

No job description is that specific. Your job is to implement corporate HR policy and that includes ones like this.

I wasn’t asking people to evaluate my own solution, or to encourage me to come up with my own, I was asking if people had any ideas, and if they thought affirming someone in transgender behavior was morally compatible with Catholic teaching.

I gave you my thoughts on what you can do. You can feel and be affirmed here that your thoughts are correct, but that doesn’t solve the problem. You are going to have to find a way to get your head around what is quickly becoming a protected class at many larger employers or by law.

Do you yourself personally think it is morally okay to become trans gendered and mutilate your sex organs, change your given name, and pretend you are the other sex completely?

People don’t become transgender, gay, or whatever. Again, consider what people routinely give up to follow that identity. It’s your view that these people at mutilating themselves, but that is done on the presumption that most do. Some don’t see it your way, some are resigned to never being able to afford it, and some don’t want to at all.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

Saying a man is a woman or that Eve is actually now Steve (another gender) is indeed not a statement of fact. Adding or removing sexual organs, lipstick, clothing etc does not change the sexual meaning of the body God gave. We can’t change our chromosomes or our biology. Any biologist who said we could would be laughed out of their department, because it just isn’t so.

I just feel like this simplifies things a bit much, at least from the perspective of how we treat fellow people with their own experiences and convictions.

I’m not promoting relativism, and I’m not at all saying the church’s teaching is wrong.

But considering the dramatic, intense, emotional dealings with deeply feeling that you ARE in the “wrong body” and then having to make the critical decision to transition, I think we need to prioritize the person at the center of it all, and not necessarily get up in arms just because they happen to disagree with our theology.

I think Jesus would understand.

P.S. I think if we could peak into society and church even 100 years from now, we would be surprised at how far our understanding of these things have come. Even now the church is moving towards a more pastoral/accompanying position rather than a straightforward “black and white” thinking.

Human life is messy. Real life is messy. I’m willing to bet only a select few align with the paradigm “man” and “woman.”

 

[Start]

What we have here is, Christians engaging in personal interpretation of scripture, and creating their own Doctrine.

That’s a two street road…

 

[Start]

I may think it’s courteous for you to call me my preferred name “Superiorman” but you may not…

Non Sequiter.

 

[Lara]

Explain to your boss that you’re not comfortable going against your own conscience and biology. Then watch yourself get fired.

You wrote that “[being forced to do something against your deeply held religious beliefs] would be a hostile work environment, which is illegal.” Well newsflash. It’s not illegal if it’s against Christians. When the gays and transgendered people came out of the closet, the Christians were stuffed in.

We are in a cultural war, and we are losing. There can be no compromise, and there isn’t any compromise because the other side knows exactly who they need to bully to get their way. You can pussyfoot around these issues, but essentially you are supporting transgendered people when you create protected categories for them in which everybody has to go along with their ruse.

Now, in another post, I told a nurse to use those pronouns. That’s because I know she would get fired or be forced to take sensitivity training, and it’s just not worth the bother. Everybody deserves care at the end of life.

However, to support policies that discriminate against Christians is unwise when you’re a Christian, and will lead to Christians paying thousands in legal fees.

The trouble is that there will soon be only a few jobs left for Catholics of conscience, such as cleaning houses or mowing lawns.

 

[anon65111186]

What we have here is, Christians engaging in personal interpretation of scripture, and creating their own Doctrine. There is no official and inviolable teaching by the Catholic Church that referring to a transgender person by the pronoun that matches how they are presenting themselves is any sort of a moral problem.

Actually, the Pope has spoken on this “whereas thinking that we enjoy absolute power over our own bodies turns, often subtly, into thinking that we enjoy absolute power over creation”

“man too has a nature that he must respect and that he cannot manipulate at will”

“Man does not create himself. He is intellect and will, but he is also nature, and his will is rightly ordered if he respects his nature, listens to it and accepts himself for who he is, as one who did not create himself”

If you are manipulating your nature, or trying to “create” your identity apart from God’s given identity, then yes, it is a moral problem.

 

[anon65111186]

Did you ever think of the courage it takes to come our as transgender? It’s not something people do lightly and mocking the situation with things like this are not even close.

How is that mocking? What if I was serious? Like the other person said, what you said doesn’t follow from what I said.

Maybe it takes courage for people to come out and say they are Jesus Christ, because they sincerely and wholeheartedly believe they are in fact god himself, but that doesn’t mean they are, and they shouldn’t be given admiration for “coming out” with something that is not truly who they are.

Your job is to implement corporate HR policy and that includes ones like this

Part of my job is to make corporate HR policy, upon interviews with various stakeholders.

You are going to have to find a way to get your head around what is quickly becoming a protected class at many larger employers or by law.

Just because something becomes more prevalent isn’t a reason to accept it, my head is already around it thank you. It isn’t a protected class, Title VII gives no formal or official protections based on gender identity, and signs are that it will be made clear that there are no such protections soon. Otherwise, we would have to have protections for everyone who wanted to be a man one day, and then a women the next, and then a man again the next day. That is just absurd.

People don’t become transgender, gay, or whatever. Again, consider what people routinely give up to follow that identity. It’s your view that these people at mutilating themselves, but that is done on the presumption that most do. Some don’t see it your way, some are resigned to never being able to afford it, and some don’t want to at all.

Yes they do. I’ve seen and heard of many people becoming gay, then becoming straight again, or transgender and changing back. So to say they don’t change is absurd.

 

[anon65111186]

But considering the dramatic, intense, emotional dealings with deeply feeling that you ARE in the “wrong body” and then having to make the critical decision to transition, I think we need to prioritize the person at the center of it all, and not necessarily get up in arms just because they happen to disagree with our theology.

I think Jesus would understand.

So what is the church teaching that you are saying isn’t wrong on this?

Reality isn’t based on feelings, should the person who is suffering from deep depression act on their “feelings”, because those are intense, dramatic and emotional. It they made the critical decision to end their life, would we just say Jesus would understand and that’s it?

No, we would provide help to that person and healing, hope, so they know they aren’t their feelings, but a child of God. Same with transgendered people, they aren’t their identity or feelings, they are who God created them to be.

We all have crosses, but we can’t give into temptation. We have Christ as our support.

 

[anon65111186]

Explain to your boss that you’re not comfortable going against your own conscience and biology. Then watch yourself get fired.

That’s exactly what I don’t want happening, so I’ll just do my best with this situation, and pray for God’s guidance that I have the right words and actions.

It is unfortunate but true, the priority in secular workplaces is for non-Christians over Christians, and there is a strong bias against anyone who disagrees with the prevailing ideology of the times. Basically, if you’re not part of the world, you can’t be in it.

Christ have mercy on this generation.

 

[anon65111186]

I thank you for coming here with your questions. I agree with someone else who suggested (unfortunately) to seek other employment. In the climate in today’s society; your career will likely be filled with tasks such as this.

That doesn’t mean you give up completely! I agree that you should at least try and approach this task with some degree of common sense. However, there’s no common sense to be found in calling someone what they’re not.

For me and my family at this point, seeking other employment isn’t exactly practicable, plus it is a well paying job. I am in charge of the HR training and developing policy for 700 employees.

I think you’re right, the sense that is common is that homosexual behavior is morally good, transgender people living as another sex is natural, and anything anyone does with their body is licit, because it’s not a gift from God, but one’s own creation.