Liberal catholicism or conservative protestantism?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mugglestruggle
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
mugglestruggle said:
Hello! If your only two church options were:
a) a catholic church with very low attendance, liturgical abuses, no sense of community, bad music, no reverence, watered down gospel BUT there’s the eucharist, or
b) a protestant church that is super conservative and orthodox, true to scripture, strong community and SOLID preaching BUT, sigh, it’s protestant…
…what would you choose in these trying times, and why?
Click to expand...
Can I have Orthodoxy? 😉 (as in Russian/Greek Orthodoxy)
 
Last edited:
adf417 said:
Well lets see - Jesus in the eucharist vs Jesus not in the eucharist - seems like a pretty easy decision to me. Maybe i dont understand the question.

Peace!!!
Click to expand...
Haha, you’re right! I go to mass for the eucharist. It’s just that sometimes (most of the time), lots of things I don’t like get very distracting. Hard to tune them out.
 
mugglestruggle said:
Haha, you’re right! I go to mass for the eucharist. It’s just that sometimes (most of the time), lots of things I don’t like get very distracting. Hard to tune them out.
Click to expand...
I understand. However, i have yet to meet a Protestant who hasn’t said the same thing at one time or another.

Peace!!!
 
Mugglestruggle,
It sounds like you really are struggling. Remember what the devil would like you to do – quit attending Mass.
Maybe your parish has terrible liturgy, and the Catholic teaching is watered down. Can you find a different parish?
Hang in there and maybe things will get better! Seek out good liturgy and solid teaching. At least watch good liturgy on the internet if nothing else.

Possibly is there a dispensation right now and you can just watch good liturgy on the internet? Do you have a Latin Mass near you?
 
Last edited:
27lw said:
Remember what the devil would like you to do – quit attending Mass.
Click to expand...
I know. 😔
27lw said:
Can you find a different parish?
Click to expand...
No, it’s pretty much all like this here, due to ageing population and very low attendance. It’s like they don’t put in the effort anymore.
27lw said:
Possibly is there a dispensation right now and you can just watch good liturgy on the internet? Do you have a Latin Mass near you?
Click to expand...
No and no, sadly, no latin mass or other reverent options. However there are options at about 2 hours drive. I think I’m gonna write a letter to one of those priests, see what could be done.
 
Last edited:
Sounds basic, but could you literally pray for help? Literally, “Jesus help me. Help me in this struggle”.
I’m sure He will! 😊
 
mugglestruggle said:
Hello! If your only two church options were:
a) a catholic church with very low attendance, liturgical abuses, no sense of community, bad music, no reverence, watered down gospel BUT there’s the eucharist, or
b) a protestant church that is super conservative and orthodox, true to scripture, strong community and SOLID preaching BUT, sigh, it’s protestant…
…what would you choose in these trying times, and why?
Click to expand...
Always and always catholic church. None protestant church or service will ever be able to replace catholic one.
Catholic Church is always Christ’s Bride, no matter what happens it will never change. There is no replacement for catholic Mass.

Sorry but things aren’t that simple.

I have a suggestion for reading, God or Nothing by Robert Sarah. He mentions many things you have problem with.
a protestant church that is super conservative and orthodox, true to scripture, strong community and SOLID preaching BUT, sigh, it’s protestant…
Click to expand...
Those are not facts but rather feelings.

Can you please explicitly write words you think that aren’t valid in Consecration and precise liturgucal abuse?
 
I’d still be Catholic no matter what. Why? There are many reasons but the main reasons are because we are THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST and because of the EUCHARIST.
mugglestruggle said:
a catholic church with very low attendance, liturgical abuses, no sense of community, bad music, no reverence, watered down gospel BUT there’s the eucharist, or
Click to expand...
Our Lord said that the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against the Church. Even if these things are happening, I will still be part of the Body of Christ because. I will remain faithful to what Our Lord has promised . Things will change God willing.

I’d rather have the Eucharist and nothing else rather than having everything without the Eucharist.
 
Last edited:
mugglestruggle said:
it’s a serious question
Click to expand...
I think it’s a very good question, and one that I’ve reflected upon when I lived in remote regions or localities wherein practising Christians were uncommon and services rare.

While the Eucharist is the ‘source and summit of Christian life’ (per Lumen Gentium), I’m not sure how helpful it is to conceptualise it separately from other aspects of Christian life: the Eucharist is a liturgical act, offered with reverence that directs the physical senses of a person towards God, and it is in the Eucharist that one participates in the Body of Christ, the community of Christian believers.

Regardless of however uncanonical or inappropriate it may be, my impression was that intercommunion (or, at least, Catholics attending Protestant services and vise versa) was quite normal in many remote Australian regions wherein one’s own parish may offer Mass/Holy Communion only once a month. Likewise, intercommunion between Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox in sparsely populated Middle Eastern regions is a lot more common than one would think (or prefer) it to be.

I suppose what I’m trying to say (in a reflective but probably convoluted manner) is that while the Eucharist is the fons et culmen Christianae vitae, apparently for many people it isn’t the esse: that is, Christian life can’t be reduced to the Eucharist alone.

Prior to my living in a major city where my local parish is vibrant, orthodox and reverent, I lived remotely wherein the parish was unfortunately very stagnant. It bore many of the characteristics that you described in option (a): minimal attendance, non-existent parish life, liturgy was not irreverent per se but very perfunctory. In short, it was the Christian life with the Eucharist but without everything else, and I have hard a time imagining that sort of life is sustainable or conducive to growth in holiness over time.

I don’t have a simple solution for your problem. I personally didn’t choose (b), but I can understand why one would choose (b) whether it was Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox.
 
mugglestruggle said:
super conservative and orthodox, true to scripture
Click to expand...
If they are orthodox and true to Scripture they must accept Pope and be Catholic. How are they orthodox yet Protestant? 😮
mugglestruggle said:
what about catholic churches that don’t even teach catholic dogma anymore? protestantized catholic churches?
Click to expand...
Send a letter to Bishop, if that does not help send a letter to Archbishop and so on… even if you have to contact Vatican. It is also duty of laity to keep Church pure and check those in authority.
mugglestruggle said:
Okay, and how would you deal with all the flaws in your church that literally makes you lose faith?
Click to expand...
Talk to Priest. Anyway is there no real option too change the Parish?

Your main problem with Catholic Church is that they are not really Catholic. Protestant Church is not really Catholic either- so why pick that over Church with Sacraments?
 
Last edited:
It’s a good question and not so easy to dismiss with, “the Catholic Church has the Eucharist, so therefore it is better.” Too often, Catholics will throw out phrases like “the Real Presence” or “but we have the Eucharist, that’s all that matters” as if they’re just taglines, mere advertising slogans that don’t have to connect with anything else like reverent liturgy or teaching the full truth of the faith at the parish level.

Some people can only go for so long mentally reassuring themselves, “well, I’m receiving the Eucharist, it’s all that matters.” But when someone’s parish, or even the Church at large, is causing a state of confusion in teaching, a person can only hold to cognitive dissonance for a finite amount of time before questioning if the Church’s beliefs are true. I think I understand where the OP is coming from on this, but I may be wrong.

Poll after poll taken shows that conservative Protestants, e.g. Evangelicals, Baptists, etc. adhere to Catholic and fundamental Christian teachings on things like marriage and abortion at a much higher rate than Catholics do. The reason is because their pastors actually preach on a large variety of topics, and are not afraid to bring up tougher issues in their sermons. Some Catholic priests might, but by and large they don’t.

That a disconnect exists between what we believe about the Eucharist and the measured attitudes of Catholics about very basic Catholic moral teachings is evident. I realize that polls may question people who identify as Catholic and may not be practicing, but I have enough personal experience through life to know that even practicing Catholics who receive the Eucharist each week hold many views contrary to basic Church teaching.
 
I would also add that if you’re still under dispensation from attending Mass due to Covid, maybe just go to the other Churches you mentioned that are 2 hours away, just less frequently. On your other Sundays, perhaps keep the Lord’s Day holy by making Spiritual Communion and a quiet day of prayer and contemplation.
 
mugglestruggle said:
a) a catholic church with very low attendance, liturgical abuses, no sense of community, bad music, no reverence, watered down gospel BUT there’s the eucharist, or
b) a protestant church that is super conservative and orthodox, true to scripture, strong community and SOLID preaching BUT, sigh, it’s protestant…
…
Click to expand...
Why should “very low attendance” be a deterrent? The Narrow Gate?

Re: " no sense of community", that’s not what you’re at worship for, whether it’s Catholic or Protestant.

How do you measure the solidity of the preaching?
 
Last edited:
Speaking as somebody who dealt with this for 6 years, you struggle. God never said we wouldn’t struggle. He never said we wouldn’t have difficulties. There were times it was just too much for me and since I actually for most of the time was limited by my need to be a caregiver and simply could not prevail on somebody to give me the necessary time to get to the church, let’s say I didn’t stomp my foot and turn blue and demand help (which probably wouldn’t have worked but it MIGHT have). The times I DID get the help and went I winced, prayed, wrote and tore up many letters to the Bishop (which wouldn’t have done any good had I sent them), even more letters to the priest (I had tried face to face talking which did not help as he, poor man, honestly believed he was perfect and I was ‘rigid’), said many rosaries.

In the end I was able to move away and now with the pandemic , my age, etc., I find myself suffering in a different way as I have found a lovely faithful church but between the 25% capacity AND a reassignment to Sunday work (no, there is no Saturday Mass here), I’m rarely able to go.

Still, there is some meaning to this. The years I had to struggle to show up to a place that was wildly illicit if not invalid, and now the months I have struggled not being able to get to a church of great beauty and consolation. . .there must be some way I can give this to God and please HIm. I’m trying now to let go of as much of ‘praise or blame’ as I can and just focus on prayer; reparation for my OWN failings at the top of the list, keeping my prayer life as rich as possible, and just ‘holding on.’
 
Much of my life as a cradle Catholic, I’ve endured sitting in a lot of ugly churches, listening to banal sermons, seeing low attendance, and listening to awful music… all for the Eucharist.

During the worst times when I lived near a parish that was awful, I found resources online or could listen to sermons that were much better. Now I think a lot of Catholics are able to listen to and watch things on social media, and this can be helpful when people have to put up with poorly run parishes. Nothing takes the place of the sacraments, though.

I’m sorry you are depressed. I hope things get better soon.
 
Last edited:
VanitasVanitatum said:
I ignore them (church flaws) and look at the ideal of Catholicism which is the saints.
Click to expand...
Do you know how bad the former practice sounds, in light of some of the current scandals that were at least ignored?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top