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bear06
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bear06:
We have these problems with Medicaid!
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my_agatha
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If that’s the case, then how do you explain the effects of the Great Depression?
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goofyjim
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goofyjim:
And we would have the problems under a Church run program as well. After all, while being a divine institution, it still consists of humans.
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bear06
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my agatha:
op.org/holyrosary/htm/history.htm
What were the effects as you see them and how did the Church fail? How would welfare have helped? Who took care of the Depression era people? Was it the government? I just did a little google and here’s the type of thing Catholics did in the depression.
op.org/holyrosary/htm/history.htm
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bear06
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bear06:
You’re not going to convince me. I think we had far less problems when the “Sisters of Mercy” (name made up) ran the hospitals then the counties.
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goofyjim
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goofyjim:
I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I believe in limited government but we don’t have to go to the extreme of no government. For example, you stated earlier if you didn’t have to spend thousands of dollars in taxes you would have more to help your parents with their expenses. But you might have to spend that thousand for them because under your conditions of government cutbacks there would be no benefits there for them. Then there is another family that just doesn’t have the means because they are not in your financial position. Who helps them when their child becomes disabled and they are already poor and your already busy with you family. The Church may not be able to fill the void and then you have a widening gap between the poor and rich. Mind you, I still try to stay conservative, but noone has ever given me an opportunity because they do look at the disability and don’t take a risk to hire me. While I am happy to be mildly conservative I thank God for those liberals who still vote to support programs like medicaid and social security and my secret prayers to God is that they will never go away. Those prayers seem to be working so far but then I’ve always been told that my prayers are powerful.
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goofyjim
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Be prepared. When you pull the rug of medicaid and medicare out from under the feet of those who truly need it ( and I know some of them) I might suggest they and I ask the Church for support. Will there be funding for this? Because a second Great Depression will occur.
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bear06
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Well, of course you can’t just say "We’re going to stop medicare without a myriad of other things happening in conjuction with this. It probably has to start with the malpractice end which will drop medical costs. The FDA needs some serious help. etc., etc., etc. Once all of these things have been replaced, fixed, etc. can we get rid of medicare, medicaid, etc. There were charitable organizations who’s hands have now effectively been tied by the government. Fix all of this and you’ll see them rise again. All of these things need to be fixed and income tax needs to be phased out!
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bones_IV
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We will always have wackadoos and AntiChrists on this forum.
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goofyjim
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It’s obvious you’ve been blessed with a high income. Praise God! But what would happen if a sudden catastrophic illness were to take that income away tomorrow? This is how most psychiatric illnesses work. And they hit before there is even time to enter the workforce. Then noone wants to hire, there is no legislation to protect your rights, and the rich keep saying they just need to get out and work. It’s just not that simple. We need to keep medicare and medicaid for these purposes. Can we fund them w/o income tax? Sure, but there will have to be some other tax to replace it.
I personally wouldn’t mind if income tax were phased out because that would mean right now I would have no taxes to pay other than sales tax.
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goofyjim
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And who pray tell are the anti christs and wackadoos. I pray the rosary daily and if I am being referred to as an anti christ because I support some social programs such as medicaid and medicare then this whole forum has gone way off the mark. Watch your words before you pass judgement.
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goofyjim
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I’m Sorry bones. I just reviewed the posts and you may have been referring to something else. Bones, is Spock okay?
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steveandersen
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Well…we had no highways, inland ports, land reclamation/flood control out west, FDA, FCC, SEC, FAA, EPA, NSA, FBI, CIA, NASA,NTSB, Social security, Welfare, Medicare, Medicare, No Air Force, and a tiny little ArmyHmmm…how did we ever survive before income tax?I think a quick google will show you how it can be done.
Local governments were completely on their own for bridges, ports, disasters…
Remember you get what you pay for.
and everything that we have today is around because someone said “there ought to be a law”
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steveandersen
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I’m not sure if I quite agree with that etymology. Liberals were so called because they wanted to liberate us from traditional constraints such as a command economy, hereditary rulers, and yes, established churches too.
Yes we took liberties…from the kings and aristocrats who held it from us. They weren’t going to give liberty away after all.
Those who are derided as “liberals” today are actually social democrats. Don’t deride a great political tradition by swallowing media labels.
Unfortunately for all of us, rational well-reasoned discussion makes for bad TV and radio. So the so-called “liberals” and “conservatives” that we see are the edges of the political spectrum. The political middle is chock full of good, honest, salt of the earth, liberals and conservatives. I hate to see any of them tarred with the same brush as the socialists and reactionaries.
The US constitution is the long-lived masterpiece that it is precisely because it is not black and white. If it were all crystal clear we wouldn’t have discussions about it.
Just look at the discussion currently going on about the limits of executive and congressional powers. It is 217 years after the rules were written and thery’re still debating.
Hmmmmm I’m not quite sure if I understand you. Are you saying that when you make a definition or interpretation it is all right but when someone else does in a way that you don’t agree with it is taking liberties?
I’m sure they may say the same about you.You may not like someone’s interpretation but what are you going to do? It is their interpretation you can’t really tell them they can’t have it.
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bones_IV
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I suppose so. Live long and prosper. lolI’m Sorry bones. I just reviewed the posts and you may have been referring to something else. Bones, is Spock okay?
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Knight003
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That is exactly my point. There are structured statements in both the Constitution and the Doctrine of the Catholic Church which do not allow wiggle room, as well as many that do. I hate to go back to abortion, but it is a microcosm of the whole situation. There are definitive Church statements which say it is never OK to support abortion in any way, but many Catholics consider themselves Pro-choice. This is not an area that is open for debate, yet there is one. It doesn’t make it right. These Catholics consider themselves liberals, probably because they feel that they are fighting for the liberties of Catholic women. I call them liberals because they are taking liberties with doctrinal writings- holding strictly to the convenient Doctrines, while dismissing others. There are many Doctrines which are open to some level of interpretation, and many which are not. My problem is with the ones which are not, being taken liberally as if this were a feasible option. Liberal Catholics tend to be the ones doing this. Look you can lament the fact the word Liberal doesn’t mean what it used to, and I can lament the fact that the word Marriage doesn’t mean what it used to, thank you modern liberals for both of these realities.Hmmmmm I’m not quite sure if I understand you. Are you saying that when you make a definition or interpretation it is all right but when someone else does in a way that you don’t agree with it is taking liberties?
You may not like someone’s interpretation but what are you going to do? It is their interpretation you can’t really tell them they can’t have it.
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bear06
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Actually, we haven’t been blessed with a high income. Besides that, we live in California and are about to have our 7th child. I will say that this past year is the first year we’ve actually had any room to breath. Most of those years we were dying we tried to give 10% of our gross income to the Church and/or family members. Another thing I’d be able to do with our tax money is to put away for a rainy day so I could cover unemployment insurance if we needed it also might be able to pay for better insurance for my parents who run out of coverage every year.
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bear06
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Hello? We’re talking about income tax, not no tax. Besides, you want to talk about building roads and bridges…Here’s your tax dollars at work! salon.com/news/feature/2005/08/09/bridges/index_np.html
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bear06
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BTW, if I’m the whackadoo, which I actually firmly admit I am but not for this reason, you might want to actually read some interesting sites out there on what to do with no income tax. There are actually several ideas on the table that people have actually put a lot of research into. We’re not all just out there saying “get rid of income tax” with no solutions to the problems. I, personally, don’t ever think it’ll fly because we’ve become too dependent and don’t want to change our ways. That said, I think it would be for the best if we did.
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steveandersen
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Not to get OT but I never really minded income tax (too much)
If you’re paying a lot of taxes that means you have a lot of income
That is a problem I would like to have
My problem was always the payroll tax
They just seemed disingenuous “we’re not going to tax your income…well except for this, this, and this”
If you’re paying a lot of taxes that means you have a lot of income
That is a problem I would like to have
My problem was always the payroll tax
They just seemed disingenuous “we’re not going to tax your income…well except for this, this, and this”
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